Home Defense Carbine

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45King

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I was wondering what favorites anyone might have for use as a defensive carbine, handgun caliber, inside the home. I like the idea of a Winchester Trapper in .45 Colt, but it would need a ghost ring rear and tritium front sight. A Marlin would do, but it would need to be shortened (a trip to Wild West Guns would be very appropriate here.) Of course, there's the Camp Carbine, and the M1. Any other thoughts on this?


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Regards, Richard
 
With home defense as the specific use, seems to me one of the semi-autos would be preferred.

If over-penetration is not an issue, I think I'd go with a .44 or .357 mag...

If you're moving, and dealing with a flashlight or cellphone, you _could_ fire the SA one-handed, and you would not need a free hand for chambering the next round...
 
The new carbine semi's from Ruger (9mm and 40 S&W) look darn handy and are already small enough.

Personally, I prefer the bigger bore carbines - like 12 gauge - if you gotta have a long gun, but the 1911-A1 5" carbine in 45ACP is my favorite of all.
 
Art:"dealing with a flashlight or cellphone, you _could_ fire the SA one-handed"

True, and that's something to consider. I don't know if I'd want to be firing anything but a handgun one handed, though, unless the range is "halitosis close". As for caliber, I just prefer big ones, which is why I chose .45 Colt. Nothing wrong with .45ACP, either.

Mikey:"Personally, I prefer the bigger bore carbines - like 12 gauge - if you
gotta have a long gun, but the 1911-A1 5" carbine in 45ACP is my favorite of all."

Well, I tend to agree with you, but hey, one can never have TOO many guns. 1911 is my current "carbine" too.

I'm kind of partial to the levergun because of its benign "PC" reputation. Somehow, the powers that be don't seem to get as upset over killing a goblin using a "cowboy gun" as they do with using an "assault rifle"{gasp!}



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Regards, Richard
 
Ricardo,

I like your reasoning on the "cowboy assault rifle"! Along that line though, is that there aren't any good choices in bullets for factory .45 colt - most loads are liable to be over-penetrative in a home situation. And the lawyers warn you not to reload your own in such situations.
Maybe Cor-Bon or somebody puts out a .45 Colt load that I'm unaware of?

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Keith
The Bears and Bear Maulings Page: members.xoom.com/keithrogan
 
Keith: Have you checked out the Glaser "safety slug" in 45 cal? It's specifically designed for non-penetration through home walls, combined with devestating effect on flesh. Mind you, at several dollars a round, I wouldn't think of practicing with it, but it's what I keep MY Colt 45 loaded with.
 
Incidentally, I agree with the need to use a "non-threatening" gun for home defense. I'd hate to have to explain shooting a burglar with my Calico, even though as the gun I've fired the most rounds through, it has the best possible qualification as a home defense gun: Practice.
 
RKR,
In my situation, I'm not worried about overpenetration. There's only me & my wife in the house, and the outer walls are brick. I've got some Silvertip 225 gr. that ought to do nicely. I also have some Glassers (silver tip, #6 shot), but hollowpoints are about as "trick" as I want to get. I think that Triton might have some Quik Shok and Hi Vel loads. I wish someone would load a 200 gr. HP to about 1000fps. This is my standard .45 Colt reload. Not "magnumized", just slightly warmed up.
BTW, how did you get your link into your signature? My prefs window says you can't use HTML language in your signature.

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Regards, Richard
 
We live, my wife and I, in an old farmhouse in the 'Sierras", in Cordoba (near the center of Argentina): No neighbors most of the time (one, a 'weekend farmer') and pretty isolated, a good hours drive o rough trails from anywhere. Defense setup is a couple of large German Shepherds, a 12 gauge pump action (with a Beamshot pointer), my regular handgun of the moment (which maybe a SIG P220, a 1911, or a GP 100 - with Silvertips or hydroshocks). Wife has a Taurus 5 shot 38 Spl. These are around the house in suitable places (not paranoid - I just like them and they are being useful there)... but primary gun is a Winchester 94AE in 45 L. Colt - it hangs on the wall in a panoply of 'cowboy guns' (muzzle loaders) where everyone can see it. Full magazine and empty chamber: Its the only one i've had occasion to call on - an agressive drunk ex-employee was told to shut up and depart; the distinctive sound of the round being levered into the chamber was more convincing than anything else I could say.
I believe the 'right gun' depends on the circumstances, and that not having to shoot is better than otherwise, so a home defense weapon has to be suitably intimidating.
So yes, 'carbines' are a good idea :)
 
Brett and Ricardo,

Sounds like plenty of suitable rounds are out there in .45 Colt for home defense - I had no idea. I wonder how hot you can load up a 94 trapper? For instance, could you load it up to Casull ballistics? A Trapper might be a handy gun indeed with that 16 inch barrel and a hot load on fishing trips in these parts.

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Keith
The Bears and Bear Maulings Page: members.xoom.com/keithrogan
 
Well I happen to have a Win 94 Trapper in .45 Colt and I love that little sucker! Sweet little rifle. You can load it up to Ruger and Contender pressures if you want without any problems. I really don't know about trying for 454 power. I think that might be pushing it a little too far. I believe Lyman has a seperate reloading section in their book for .45 Colt carbines and if I'm not mistaken their test gun is a model 94. Personally, I gave up on hot loading the .45 Colt some time ago. I just don't think its needed. That big slow bullet has plenty of power as is.
Also, if you get one with the big loop lever, I suggest changing it to a standard style. Oh, it looks good and you can do the ol' John Wayne spin, but it beats the crap out of your knuckles if you try for fast follow up shots. That's what I did on mine.
 
Grayfox,

I live in big bear country, so a handy carbine with a big mouth holds a lot of attraction for me.
The best choice would be a "co-pilot", a lightened .45/70 Marlin. Those rifles are both expensive and still heavier than a Trapper.
Right now when I go fishing, I carry a pump shotgun with alternating buck and slugs. Thats a handfull to lug around when you already have fishing gear, lunch, salmon to carry out, etc.
A .45 Colt is probably poor bear protection but since you are going to have to make a head shot to stop any big browny anyway, a trapper with good sights might just be the ticket!
Since you tell me you can load them up to Ruger and Contender ballistics, I suspect the extra barrel length probably puts it above any Casull velocity and power. I've seen used trappers for as low as $200, If I beat one up out in back country lugging it around, I won't have to cry myself to sleep every night either!

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Keith
The Bears and Bear Maulings Page: members.xoom.com/keithrogan
 
Keith,
I'm afraid I may have goofed, I went back and checked my .45 Colt loadbook and Lyman does have a seperate section for rifles and they are using a 94 Trapper as a test gun, but they are also only loading to standard velocity.
I can tell you that I've fired some stout 300gr ruger loads through mine without any problems. Seems to me that a rifle designed to handle .30-30 pressure should be able to take it. I think I'll take this question to the Handloading forum and get some opinions there.
At any rate, A hard cast 300gr FP even at standard pressure ought to make a bear at least think twice. ;)
 
Ok, I went back and checked the books again. Speer Manual #12 lists max pressure for the .30-30 at 38,000 CUP. Winchester data shows maximum .45 Colt silhouette loads with bullets up to 350grs at 30,000 CUP. So it stands to reason that a rifle designed for the .30-30 should easily handle hot .45 Colt loads. I'm still going to post in the handloading forum just to get some more opinions.
 
45KING,

Would a H&K MP5 (Suppressed version of course due to the in-door usage requirement) Qualify? :D It's small, light weight, can be fired one handed if the need arises, it is chambered for a handgun cartridge that has many many types of projectials to choose from and you could even attached a Surefire light to it with no problem (4th Rule of gun safety).

This would seem to me to be the perfect in-house home defense weapon.

Of course you do run into the cost problem and the Class III ATF Rights Relinquishment status. :(

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Schmit, GySgt, USMC(Ret)
NRA Life, Lodge 1201-UOSSS
"Si vis Pacem Para Bellum"

[This message has been edited by David Schmidbauer (edited March 19, 1999).]

[This message has been edited by David Schmidbauer (edited March 19, 1999).]
 
Keith,

I looked into getting a lever action chambered for .454 Casull shortly after I got my Freedom Arms SA. I discussed this with Jim West who has some experience in modifying Lever Actions.

Jim said that while it can be done, and he has seen some of these guns, he does NOT recommend it, and stated flatly that he WOULD NOT make such a modification.

Unless something has changed or a new lever action has hit the market any existing lever action chambered for a .454 Casull WILL fail (read KB). It might be the 1st round that causes it or the 10th or the 50th... but it will KB at some time.



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Schmit, GySgt, USMC(Ret)
NRA Life, Lodge 1201-UOSSS
"Si vis Pacem Para Bellum"
 
Schmit,

I don't want to rechamber a .45 Colt for Casull, just load up to hot .45 Colt velocities.
.454 Casull can be loaded all the way up to 50,000 cup. Hot loads for .45 Colt in Ruger revolvers are up about 30,000 cup.
If the Trapper will safely handle those pressures I'll be happy with that - the extra barrel length and perhaps a slower powder might edge that round right up into Casull country even at lower pressures.

Of course if you'd sell me your co-pilot at a deep discount I'll be happy with that and search no further....<VBG>


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Keith
The Bears and Bear Maulings Page: members.xoom.com/keithrogan
 
Keith;

>Of course if you'd sell me your co-pilot <snip>

You know... being a fellow Naval type Service Member, someone who appreciates Alaska and all the things it has to offer I'd be willing to let you have first dibs on it @ a discount of 90%... that is IF I had one and (bigger) IF I was going to let it go.
 
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