Holy Mother Of God!
- Thread starter k_dawg
- Start date
Roadkill Coyote
New member
I see no problem with using RFID for employee passes, or keeping track of the locations of school children on site, as long as what is readable is merely an local identifying number, which does not reveal any personal information, and that the institution properly guards what personal information it maintains. Those are innovative uses of a new technology, that save time. That is a very differant issue from a system which could be widely used in public places, and allow access to a driver's license number, or other personal information.
The problem with RFID, is that you don't have a choice about when and where your information is shared, unless you take action to prevent it, such as leaving the tagged ID in a secure location or sheilding it in some manner. In that way, RFID reverses the most basic assumption of all, that your identifing information is yours, and there must be an positive authorization from you to release it. In the above cases, we are dealing with minor children in school, for whom the school is responsible, and employees who have given that positive authorization as a condition of employment.
Use in a general ID scheme would be an entirely differant issue. I have no objection to more information, including biometrics on my DL, but the idea that it should be routinely readable without my specific consent would be way out of bounds. It would be treating everyone like children or employees.
The problem with RFID, is that you don't have a choice about when and where your information is shared, unless you take action to prevent it, such as leaving the tagged ID in a secure location or sheilding it in some manner. In that way, RFID reverses the most basic assumption of all, that your identifing information is yours, and there must be an positive authorization from you to release it. In the above cases, we are dealing with minor children in school, for whom the school is responsible, and employees who have given that positive authorization as a condition of employment.
Use in a general ID scheme would be an entirely differant issue. I have no objection to more information, including biometrics on my DL, but the idea that it should be routinely readable without my specific consent would be way out of bounds. It would be treating everyone like children or employees.
Mike Irwin
Staff
"Or like subjects.
Or SLAVES."
Or, in a school, like highly valued assets whose whereabouts need to be known at all times...
Or SLAVES."
Or, in a school, like highly valued assets whose whereabouts need to be known at all times...
FrankDrebin
Moderator
Haa haa....
I hate the whole idea of surnames....Waaaaay to easy to keep track of people that way...I think we should just go by first names.
Mike Irwin (btw, Welcome Back - weren't you on hiatus for a while?)-
I thought I'd already noted that I am receptive to ways to keep track of minor children in schools; it's the "slippery slope" potentially leading to MANDATORY tracking of adults by the gummint we're concerned about.
I thought I'd already noted that I am receptive to ways to keep track of minor children in schools; it's the "slippery slope" potentially leading to MANDATORY tracking of adults by the gummint we're concerned about.
Mike Irwin
Staff
I come, I go, as I please.
PsychoSword
Moderator
The slavemasters always have an obsession with the youth. Whether it's Cambodia, Russia, China, North Korea, or here at home.
The children are being conditioned in the public schools to behave like slaves. I think we all have reason to worry once they become adults. There's alot of educating that will need to be done to defeat this slavery system they've set up for us.
And the neo-cons on talk radio just couldn't get enough of RFID and National I.D. cards. And the callers, wow listening to the callers is as scary as listening to the hosts.
The children are being conditioned in the public schools to behave like slaves. I think we all have reason to worry once they become adults. There's alot of educating that will need to be done to defeat this slavery system they've set up for us.
And the neo-cons on talk radio just couldn't get enough of RFID and National I.D. cards. And the callers, wow listening to the callers is as scary as listening to the hosts.
Mike Irwin
Staff
"The slavemasters always have an obsession with the youth."
Nah, we're not over the top...
Yow.
Nah, we're not over the top...
Yow.
PsychoSword
Moderator
Yes, in fact we're already heading downhill. Hi-ho, hi-ho, down the slippery slope we go! 
PsychoSword.
I have to agree with the Psycho on this one. It is a step in the wrong direction.
Once children are conditioned to accept tracking devices as normal, they will be more willing to accept them as adults, and to put them on their children.
By conditioning the current generation, we are guaranteeing that future generations will be started earlier and wearing them longer. In a generation or three we could see a move to mandatory "dog tags", and finally to implants.
Just like guns, first assault weapons, then handguns, then .50's...... you get the idea.
I do understand the point of veiw regarding school teachers and administrators being liable for kids in their schools, but that could be solved by better trained and more vigilant staff.
I just don't see how this can be a good thing, in any form.
I have to agree with the Psycho on this one. It is a step in the wrong direction.
Once children are conditioned to accept tracking devices as normal, they will be more willing to accept them as adults, and to put them on their children.
By conditioning the current generation, we are guaranteeing that future generations will be started earlier and wearing them longer. In a generation or three we could see a move to mandatory "dog tags", and finally to implants.
Just like guns, first assault weapons, then handguns, then .50's...... you get the idea.
I do understand the point of veiw regarding school teachers and administrators being liable for kids in their schools, but that could be solved by better trained and more vigilant staff.
I just don't see how this can be a good thing, in any form.
PsychoSword
Moderator
I always used to think this could never happen here. But I've come to accept reality. It's gonna be a long hard fight.
Apple a Day
New member
Let's be really clear here:
The kids wear a badge which is read by a device over the classroom door as they walk into the room. The teacher has a handheld unit onto which the computer transfers that information. It doesn't -yet- track the kids around the school or outside.
How much $%&#!! money are they spending to "save" the teacher the thirty seconds it takes to look around the room and take roll? I'm a teacher and I can't think of any legitimate excuse for blowing that much money on something this redundant when I can use my Mk 1, mod 0 eyeballs and standard issue ballpoint pen to accomplish the same thing at 1/100000000th the cost and trouble.
If a kid gets snatched all it will tell the admin's is where the kid isn't, something a quick check of the kid's schedule (30 second call to guidance or attendance) and a quick call to the room the kid is supposed to be in (another 30 second call) would tell them anyway ... and NOT subject to crash or deletion.
Absolutely absurd waste of money and step on a slippery slope IMHO.
The kids wear a badge which is read by a device over the classroom door as they walk into the room. The teacher has a handheld unit onto which the computer transfers that information. It doesn't -yet- track the kids around the school or outside.
How much $%&#!! money are they spending to "save" the teacher the thirty seconds it takes to look around the room and take roll? I'm a teacher and I can't think of any legitimate excuse for blowing that much money on something this redundant when I can use my Mk 1, mod 0 eyeballs and standard issue ballpoint pen to accomplish the same thing at 1/100000000th the cost and trouble.
If a kid gets snatched all it will tell the admin's is where the kid isn't, something a quick check of the kid's schedule (30 second call to guidance or attendance) and a quick call to the room the kid is supposed to be in (another 30 second call) would tell them anyway ... and NOT subject to crash or deletion.
Absolutely absurd waste of money and step on a slippery slope IMHO.
FrankDrebin
Moderator
I'm surprised that some of you folks aren't a lot more in favor of this idea than you seem to be. If it's reasonable enough for some of you to need to carry a gun in suburbia to protect yourself, isn't it reasonable enough to expect that your kids will need protection from kid snatchers? You can't be everywhere at once with your guns, but at least if they can track your kid on the global kid tracker, you can find out where to take your gun to protect him/her.
Frank.
My only question is, are they going to tell you if your kid has come up missing?
Can you imagine a school administrator calling you to say your child is lost?
I find it much more likely that they will first double check the school, then check the system, then alert the authorities. By now child has been missing for 60-90 minutes, and the only way the parent will find out is from the 6 o'clock news
Not a pretty situation.
I just can't picture them going into high gear as soon as the kid comes up missing, because most people in CommieFornia (where this is happening) will be under the following delusion:
He's wearing a tag, so he must be safe, right?
Yup, must be cutting class or something.
He's not in the school. We checked.
Okay, double check the system, it must be acting up.
Okay, checked each sensor, all good, and the base station.
Guess we should call the police now.
911 has us on hold.
You get the idea. Kid has been missing a minimum of an hour before someone decides to act.
This is just the way I see it going down.
My only question is, are they going to tell you if your kid has come up missing?
Can you imagine a school administrator calling you to say your child is lost?
I find it much more likely that they will first double check the school, then check the system, then alert the authorities. By now child has been missing for 60-90 minutes, and the only way the parent will find out is from the 6 o'clock news
Not a pretty situation.I just can't picture them going into high gear as soon as the kid comes up missing, because most people in CommieFornia (where this is happening) will be under the following delusion:
He's wearing a tag, so he must be safe, right?
Yup, must be cutting class or something.
He's not in the school. We checked.
Okay, double check the system, it must be acting up.
Okay, checked each sensor, all good, and the base station.
Guess we should call the police now.
911 has us on hold.
You get the idea. Kid has been missing a minimum of an hour before someone decides to act.
This is just the way I see it going down.
too many choices!?
New member
Whether some idiots wanna believe it or not.......
Technology is not always the answer......
! And there is that liberal argument we all love to see so often...Its for the kids(single tear falls) :barf:
I just wish I had more money than brains so I could use technology to fix problems that don't exist.....Kommiefornia wants to be the New Babylon(the biblical one that tried to reach the Heavens) and are well on their way to becoming the next Sodom and Gomora(sp) !
Technology is not always the answer......
! And there is that liberal argument we all love to see so often...Its for the kids(single tear falls) :barf: I just wish I had more money than brains so I could use technology to fix problems that don't exist.....Kommiefornia wants to be the New Babylon(the biblical one that tried to reach the Heavens) and are well on their way to becoming the next Sodom and Gomora(sp)
!a short essay ...
Should school children be required to wear rfid badges in order to insure thier safety in school? At first glance, of course this is a good idea, everyone wants children to be safe. However, we can recognize the argument of 'for the children' as a subtle attempt to pull emotion into the equation ("Gun control, to keep our kids safe"). Emotion and rational thought seldom go hand-in-hand. We need to analyze where the seemingly harmless and beneficial act of rfid tagging our school children may take us in the future through incremental process.
Let us first look at social security in order to set a precedent for incremental process. Opponents of social security were scared to death of a national tracking scheme in the form of a number. Social security passed because these fears were eased with the argument that the program was a purely voluntary program for those that needed the assistance. These opponents are rolling in their graves yelling "I TOLD YOU SO!" since today, seventy some years later, one can hardly even get a job without a social security number. National tracking number indeed, moving so slowly (incrementally) that no one noticed, and it began with the children in school.
Back to rfid: the children will become accustomed to wearing an electronic tracking device because it will be marketed as 'cool'. I am sure the devices will be heavily promoted by the likes of MTV, and will come in all kinds of colors in order for the child to customize it just for him or her. Incrementally the rfid device will slowly work its way into other areas of life, following these children as they age. For them, and subsequent generations it will simply be part of life, like social security is to us. When they move out on their own and go to the grocery store, they pick up groceries, then just walk out the front door. Thanks to rfid on the merchandise and on the customer, a scanner at the door will scan their cart and person, and the central database will tally the purchase and deduct it from their account. How many already use the self-checkout lanes?
Ultimately the purpose of this is not for some command and control slavery grid as some contest. No, the pupose of this is simply marketing, in short, money. Anything you ever buy is stored in a database and a personal profile is generated. Advertising is no longer wasted because it can be specifically targeted based on personal profiles. Look at how Google generates advertising based on the search criteria that is entered. Imagine how easy it is to advertise if everyones entire purchasing history is easily accessible. So is this a bad thing? I suppose that it really is not. However, I do know that particular historical literature has explicitly warned against a mark without which one cannot buy or sell. Each generation are steps higher up in the incremental process ladder, and it begins when we are children.
Should school children be required to wear rfid badges in order to insure thier safety in school? At first glance, of course this is a good idea, everyone wants children to be safe. However, we can recognize the argument of 'for the children' as a subtle attempt to pull emotion into the equation ("Gun control, to keep our kids safe"). Emotion and rational thought seldom go hand-in-hand. We need to analyze where the seemingly harmless and beneficial act of rfid tagging our school children may take us in the future through incremental process.
Let us first look at social security in order to set a precedent for incremental process. Opponents of social security were scared to death of a national tracking scheme in the form of a number. Social security passed because these fears were eased with the argument that the program was a purely voluntary program for those that needed the assistance. These opponents are rolling in their graves yelling "I TOLD YOU SO!" since today, seventy some years later, one can hardly even get a job without a social security number. National tracking number indeed, moving so slowly (incrementally) that no one noticed, and it began with the children in school.
Back to rfid: the children will become accustomed to wearing an electronic tracking device because it will be marketed as 'cool'. I am sure the devices will be heavily promoted by the likes of MTV, and will come in all kinds of colors in order for the child to customize it just for him or her. Incrementally the rfid device will slowly work its way into other areas of life, following these children as they age. For them, and subsequent generations it will simply be part of life, like social security is to us. When they move out on their own and go to the grocery store, they pick up groceries, then just walk out the front door. Thanks to rfid on the merchandise and on the customer, a scanner at the door will scan their cart and person, and the central database will tally the purchase and deduct it from their account. How many already use the self-checkout lanes?
Ultimately the purpose of this is not for some command and control slavery grid as some contest. No, the pupose of this is simply marketing, in short, money. Anything you ever buy is stored in a database and a personal profile is generated. Advertising is no longer wasted because it can be specifically targeted based on personal profiles. Look at how Google generates advertising based on the search criteria that is entered. Imagine how easy it is to advertise if everyones entire purchasing history is easily accessible. So is this a bad thing? I suppose that it really is not. However, I do know that particular historical literature has explicitly warned against a mark without which one cannot buy or sell. Each generation are steps higher up in the incremental process ladder, and it begins when we are children.