Holsters?

I know guns don't fire themselves.
tell that to this guy. they are called slam fires.
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=373181

I carry at my 4 all the time. I have a hammer, a safety, and a 16lb trigger. my holster covers my trigger guard completely. somehow, all of these things would have to be disabled/triggered for my gun to go off in my holster, to shoot me in the a$$ and probably though my leg. it will be a bad day when this happens.
 
Geez, Kyo. As if I didn't already have enough to lay awake all night...

I'd like to carry when I horseback riding, but I wonder if it could fire if I fell off. :eek:
 
there are multiple reasons why it shouldn't even if you did fall off.
1. trigger has a safety on it
2. grip safety
3. the trigger guard shouldn't be uncovered
as I said about myself. if all these happened, you would be having a bad day, but it should not unless you fall with your gun in your hand and your finger in the trigger guard while the gun is in your holster. which is retarded and shouldn't ever happen...you would also be having a bad day
 
carrying while horseback riding...

Kayla, I'd worry less about it firing if you fell off, and more about falling off if you fire it.

Horses need specific training to make them comfortable with gunfire. I don't know how to do it, but I've had a couple friends who did. One for hunting from horseback, the other for cowboy action events.

My significant other is a professional dressage rider, breeder and horse trainer, and SHE doesn't even want to shoot while leading one of her horses, let alone while riding one.

You may have already thought of this, but just in case.

Meanwhile, +1 on the SimplyRugged Cuda. With the inside out straps, it's a reasonably comfortable IWB; without the straps, it's a very comfortable OWB. Its longish (along the belt-line, IE horizontal) contour gives it a nice, streamlined effect, so it conceals much better than one might think.

Only complaint I've had with the Cuda (for SemiAutos; I have one for my CZ) or the Pancake (for revolvers, I have them for my GP100 and S&W Mountain Gun) is that the dye tends to stain your pants around the upper part of the holster (high rub area, relatively speaking - again, it's a comfortable holster, and it doesn't rub much, but anything along your hip will rub at least a little), especially if you are sweating, for the first week or so of use. On the bright side, in every case so far the stains have washed out immediately, using cold cycle.
 
yea it does stain your pants, but its not forever. other then that the stuff is great! just wash it out in the laundry
 
Kyo, I read your reply before I read MLeake and don't even want to tell you what I was thinking! :D

MLeake, I wonder if I'd know your wife from the dressage universe...

I dated a cowboy mounted shooter guy for a bit. I understand how to train a horse, but don't have the equipment to do it. (Need blanks....or at least a cap gun, and ideally, a gun trained horse.)

But I have two relatively high strung horses, and I'm not even sure if they can be gun trained. Quarter horses tend to do better with that kind of stuff. The only time I could see firing off a horse would be like mountain lion or something else unlikely.

But, I really want to see if I could train one of my horses to do cowboy mounted shooting. Horses and guns?! There isn't much more I could ask for in a fun day. :D

The Cuda and Pancake look comfortable but I don't understand the straps. I wish they had some additional photos.

There is a gun show coming up in a week or two. Maybe I can find some holster options there, if I understood more about what I'm looking for.
 
Huh?? How is it safe in my pocket?

My XD has a a grip safety on top of, what seems to me to be a "worthless" trigger safety. The Glocks don't even have a grip safety. And I don't understand what safety features are on other guns. Long pull, does not sound like a serious safety feature.

So then I'm told the Ghost isn't safe because the trigger is exposed. But if a gun is in my Thunderwear or tshirt, let alone pocket, it's all exposed.

I know guns don't fire themselves. I know they supposedly are also drop-proof (but still feel skeptical about that.)

kayla: You just need a little more exposure to the major variants of common defensive handgun trigger types. Ask someone at a gunshop, pawnshop, gunshow, or Shooter Safety/CCW course to show you the following (and try their triggers & safeties):

1. Striker Fired Single Action Semi-Autos: Glocks, XDs, S&W M&Ps. In these weapons, every trigger pull is exactly the same...short travel, relatively light pull, and the firing pin is cocked by manual retraction of the slide when loading. The firing pin itself remains under spring tension until released by lightly pulling the trigger. The trigger contributes no mechanical leverage to the "cocking" of the action. They tend to use the previously discussed trigger bar safety (although the XD also has a grip safety). They are simple, reliable, and absolutely safe...with a holster that protects the trigger. Because the triggers are light and no manual safety lever provided, the trigger bar safety ensures that it will require a finger to both depress that lever and pull rearward on the trigger in order to effect a shot. I'll use the analogy of flipping on a stiff room light switch to describe this type of trigger pull. You already know this one since you own it.

2. Combination Double Action/Single Action Semi-Autos (DA/SA): SIGs, Beretta 92s, HK USPs, some Rugers, decocker-equipped CZs, 3rd Generation S&Ws, Walther PPK, etc.. With these weapons, retracting and releasing the slide simultaneously chambers a round and cocks the hammer. Depressing a lever (sometimes called the safety, sometimes called the decocking lever) safely drops the hammer (taking the stored mechanical potential out of the spring holding it back). The weapon is now loaded but not cocked. When needed, the weapon's trigger must be drawn back forcefully to fire a round as the trigger finger is actually providing the mechanical force to cock the hammer to a point where it releases to strike the firing pin. Much more strength required than pulling the trigger on your XD. Weapons like this deliver a revolver-like manually cocked (by the trigger finger) first shot; all subsequent shots are a lighter Single Action (similar to your XD's trigger pull) as the recoil of the previous shot is used to chamber a new round/recock for subsequent shots. The first shot is powered by the pull of your finger on the trigger, transmitting finger strength directly against the tension of the lockwork connected to the hammer. These weapons are safe to carry whether in a holster or not. DA/SA first shot double action trigger pulls are like pressing the flush lever on a toilet...a deliberate, more forceful manuever, against resistance, and across a long arc. A long DA pull is a time proven and reliable safety feature.

3. Double Action Revolvers: For defensive use, every shot is mechanically leveraged by pulling the trigger through a long resistant arc (which cocks the hammer just prior to the sear breaking and releasing the hammer to fall forward on the firing pin). Same as the DA 1st shot in the autos described in paragraph #2 above. Most have a hammer that can be manually cocked by the thumb if desired. This allows for a deliberate Single Action shot, lightening the trigger pull as you are only applying pressure across the sear (to cause it to release the hammer) rather than also fighting the spring to cock it. Perfectly safe to carry and no safety required. Same toilet lever action as described in paragraph #2 above. A long DA pull is a time proven and reliable safety feature. Most Colt, Smith & Wesson, Dan Wesson, Charter Arms, Rossi, Taurus, or Ruger revolvers made in modern times.

4. Double Action Only (DAO) Semi-Autos and Revolvers: For every shot, the hammer is mechanically cocked by the trigger finger pulling the trigger against the spring/lockwork connected to the hammer. Toilet lever again. Every trigger pull is the same and requires a forceful and deliberate long pull. The hammer, upon reaching a position of full cock, immediately releases to impact the firing pin. You cannot keep the hammer cocked because their is no step in the sear to hold the hammer at full cock. Safety lever not required and rarely included. A long DA pull is a time proven and reliable safety feature. Kahr, Kel-Tec, Ruger LCP, some Rugers, some Smith & Wessons, and some modern DAO variants of Colt, Smith & Wesson, Dan Wesson, Charter Arms, Rossi, Taurus, or Ruger revolvers.

5. Single Action Semi-Autos: 1911s, Browning High Powers, Single Action CZs, etc.. Each shot is a short, crisp, light pull which releases the sear, causing a spring tensioned hammer to strike the firing pin. Mechanical energy is imparted to the hammer through cycling the slide during loading; this cocks the hammer. A manual safety lever is then applied to ensure that the cocked hammer cannot release accidently. In the case of the 1911, a grip safety must also be depressed when the weapon is naturally gripped. The XD borrows from the 1911 with regards to inclusion of a grip safety.
Wipe safety off, lightly touch trigger...bang. A crisp light switch.

#s 2, 3, 4, & 5 (#5 cocked and locked) type weapons benefit from but do not absolutely require a holster to make them safe for carry. In other words, you could just jam them into your pocketbook, pants pocket, jacket pocket, belly band, waistband, or glove compartment. They absolutely will not go off. You could throw most of them across the room at a wall or drop them off the roof without fear of discharge.

# 1 type weapons need a holster covering the trigger. Especially #1s. You can still throw them across the parking lot and they won't go off by themselves, unless something contacts the trigger and causes it to move rearwards...bang.

NEW YORK -- Facing the prospect of spending at least 3½ years behind bars, one-time Super Bowl star Plaxico Burress on Thursday accepted a plea bargain with a two-year prison sentence for accidentally shooting himself in the thigh at a Manhattan nightclub.

Glock, No Holster, Jammed in Waistband...Fail

On the other hand, tens of thousands of police officers safely carry XDs, Smith M&Ps, and Glocks every day...in holsters.

You already have a good pistol; just use a holster that covers the trigger and allows you to carry concealed according to your dress. The Serpa you have is fine and offers good retention.

Sorry for getting long winded...
 
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On a serious note if you want a really good holster that will last you a lifetime and your not totally sure what you want and need go to a professional leather/holstermaker, just goggle them it isn't hard,go tho there sites check out what they have e-mail them and take it from there!
 
Kayla, the Inside Out straps

If you order a Cuda with straps as an add-on, Rob Leahy will usually ship the holster with the straps already attached. Note how they are attached, before you remove them, if you decide to go OWB. Taking them off without first noticing how they are set up could make it a bit harder to figure out how to put them back on, later, for IWB

The straps are attached via sockets that fit through the round holes in the hoster, near the belt slots; the straps are anchored to the sockets with phillips head screws. (All hardware comes with the straps, except for a screwdriver.)

If you want to wear the holster OWB, you take the straps off, and run your belt through the slots.

If you want to wear the holster IWB, you attach the straps to the holster (or just leave them on in the first place), put the hoslter inside your waistband, and loop and snap the straps around your belt.

A friend of mine uses a Cuda with the straps to hide his Glock 27 when he does drug buys (narcotics cop); he finds it comfortable, and so far no BG's seem to have noticed it.

My SimplyRugged orders have taken from one to two weeks from order to receipt; I don't think anybody out there has faster average turnaround times on custom holsters.
 
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Chindo, thank you for taking the time to provide all of that detail. I don't understand it all yet...but I will!

So...I suppose it's not "correct", but part of what I like about the Serpa (besides how darn comfy it is!), is that I don't need a belt with it. Is it unrealistic to think I can find another holster that doesn't need a belt, that would go IWB?

Maybe I need to go back to looking at the Galco belly band...(would that be safe for a #1 type gun? It's nt really a holster.)
 
Evening Kayla. My motto for pistols is to buy a holster that fits the gun perfectly, and is perfectly concealed. I prefer good gunleather. It costs more, and the wait time is longer, but when you get it, you'll understand what I mean. Mitch Rosen works about 20 minutes from my house, so that's where I get my gunleather from. Not to mention that he's the best.:) IWB, OWB ( He even has an OWB that's designed for women.), between the waistband and belt, ankle and shoulder holsters. Plus some designed specifically for a few different guns, like the H&K P7. BTW, if you feel the need for a shoulder holster ( I use it for backpacking) I'll let you borrow mine for a few weeks. I have an XD(M) 9 shoulder holster made by Mitch. Enough out of me, here's the web site: http://www.mitchrosen.com/
 
I'll second the Mitch Rosen holsters as well. They are beautifully made holsters. I also have some high noon holsters that are great as well. My daily carry now is a Glock 26 in a serpa holster, an it conceals well if I have a button down shirt on. You just have to remember to dress around the gun.

My fiance was a nationally and internationally ranked dressage rider, on the olympic team at 14, breeder, and offered a job at the Austrian riding school. I think your best bet is to get them trained young by "imprinting" them pretyy much out of the womb. We had a high strung horse that we put in his stall (they had an open stall that led directly into the paddock) and he did fine with the noise, eventually coming over to look when we were shooting near his paddock.
 
Funny all the dressage rider SOs here. :D I'm but a low level, non-competitive dressage wannabe, but keep up some with those who are international level.

My Arab has been around someone shooting jackrabbits, but no clue what he was shooting with. Apparently, she was okay with it. :eek: She's usually kind of high strung. My other riding horse could probably be herd-trained to gun noise. But I would not want to be near him for the first few shots!! They all can learn, but the quarter horses seem to do better with anything that is like ranch work, including dealing with loud, sharp noise.

Skan, is the XD(M) the same size as the non-M? I thought the M had a longer barrel? I'd love to take you up on your offer!
 
Whoops! My bad, I thought you had an XD(m). I don't know where I got that idea. The only XD holsters are my XD(M)9 shoulder, IWB ( American Rear Guard), and a crappy Fobus paddle for my 3" XD 9. I hate that thing. It's why all my holsters are all leather. And it's why I rarely CCW my 3", even though it's more concealable. I'm thinking about getting another ARG for my 3", but I already have another Mitch Rosen holster in the works for my 5" Springfield 1911. Mitch charges what he charges, and I whine when I pay, but I always get a big ol' grin when I finally get them. Not to mention that they smell awesome. I wish I could get that smell in an air freshener. My wife wouldn't approve though.
 
Kayla,

I assume that you have made use of the www.corneredcat.com website's information. Pax has a great article which addresses the physical differences between a male and female body and how that has a great effect on the choices that women make in holsters.

http://www.corneredcat.com/Holster/straighttalk.aspx

Being a male and with no experience in learning from a woman as she chooses a holster for any purpose, I can't advise you.

Perhaps you will make some trade-offs in your choices of clothing in order to carry a handgun concealed on your person.
 
Chindo18Z --

Nice explanation and you mostly got it right. A couple of minor corrections:
Striker Fired Single Action Semi-Autos: Glocks, XDs, S&W M&Ps.
In the striker fired pistols, the striker is partially "cocked" but not entirely. The ATF officially lists them as double action and that's the way the companies market them, so as to make them sound safer to the bureaucrats with purchasing power. They are "DAO" but, as you described, their system works differently than the traditional hammer-sear-firing pin arrangement.

Combination Double Action/Single Action Semi-Autos (DA/SA): SIGs, Beretta 92s, HK USPs, some Rugers, decocker-equipped CZs, 3rd Generation S&Ws, Walther PPK, etc.. With these weapons, retracting and releasing the slide simultaneously chambers a round and cocks the hammer. Depressing a lever (sometimes called the safety, sometimes called the decocking lever) safely drops the hammer (taking the stored mechanical potential out of the spring holding it back). The weapon is now loaded but not cocked.
Some DA pistols have the safety/decocking lever you describe. Some, however, have a true safety. In other words, you can carry them "cocked and locked" like a single action or with the hammer down on a round.
 
I'd like to carry when I horseback riding, but I wonder if it could fire if I fell off.

kayla

If you ride with a pistol stay away from small-of-the-back carry. You do not want to end up like Steve-O on Dancing with the Stars, a pistol in the spine is probably about as much fun as a mic-pack.
 
Speaking of holsters for riding...

... if you or a friend do manage to train one or both of your horses for gunshot tolerance, and you do decide to carry while riding, you might want to consider a holster specifically for that.

Traditional cavalry holsters were crossdraw, because the drawing motion doesn't cause you to have to shift your body out of its normal riding position, and therefore doesn't mess up your balance as much as would the reach and lean involved in a strong side draw.

Another advantage to a crossdraw for outdoor use is if you ever also carry a slung long gun. Strongside holstered pistols tend to get banged into by the rifle/shotgun butt.

Last, the crossdraw is typically easier to adjust when sitting down, if you're resting on a hike or hunt, as an example.
 
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