Holster Positions

Blackfeather- thank you. This is not a new term and is frequently used.

To use your rhetorical logic, if you're just sitting there, then you're not actually doing anything, but then, that can hardly be called "carrying" either.
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Bill, you're not making sense. What is this supposed to mean? If I'm in my truck and have my gun APPENDIX IWB, I'm not actually carrying? Really. I have to actually be in motion to be carrying according to your definitions?

I sit down at my desk and suddenly I'm not really carrying. Right.

An officer getting into a scrum and being pushed into something which compromises his holster is hardly your everyday situation. It is not something you can plan for other than using good, safe gear.

Good, safe gear means something of high quality and NOT DEFECTIVE. The example I used- did you happen to see pictures of the holster that person was using? It was clearly worn- it had a dangerous crease in it which was the fold point causing the ND. Very evident that he should have known the holster had become defective and should have been put out of use and really thrown away.

I am not blindly stating anything. But using the most extreme examples you can think of doesn't support your case. A rider getting hit from behind, and his 1911 going off? Hardly your everyday, average situation. In your everyday, average situation a properly holstered gun is not going to discharge. It really is as simple as that. It happens all over the world- properly holstered guns not going off.

The majority of ND's happen when guns are OUT of the holster, held in the hand.
 
AIWB may be common terminology in your circles, but this thread is the first time I had ever seen/heard it. I was able to noodle what it stood for based on the context, but like I said, never seen it before.

I tend to fall into AH.74's camp on this topic. There is much hand wringing about guns going off "accidentally" but the bottom line is, they are inert chunks of metal and plastic, if handled properly the odds of them going bang when you don't want them to is infinitesimally small.
 
KC Rob said:
AIWB may be common terminology in your circles, but this thread is the first time I had ever seen/heard it.
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It is common enough for me to know what it is and I never had to Google it. I have seen it referenced more times than I can count even here on TFL (Thefiringline.com) Conduct a quick search here on this board and see how many results come up. I just did it and there were four pages of results. Back to the topic please.

I agree with AH.74. Almost every, if not every ND that I have read about has happened outside of a holster or has been caused by a defective holster of some sort. I have not read about a Glock, M&P, or similar modern day designed firearm discharging while it was in a quality holster. That is why I am comfortable carrying AIWB (when I can legally of course.)

I mentioned that it is inherently more dangerous because of the location of the muzzle. I am not sure how to articulate exactly what I mean though. In my mind, anytime a firearm is pointed at any part of my body (even if I am carrying it) that situation is inherently more dangerous than it was before the muzzle was pointed at me. Holster, no holster, etc…

I tried around 20+ holsters before I settled on AIWB and it was the last carry method that I tried. I feels comfortable and gives me the perfect amount of conceal-ability, access, etc... Your mileage might vary.
 
AH.74 said:
An officer getting into a scrum and being pushed into something which compromises his holster is hardly your everyday situation. It is not something you can plan for other than using good, safe gear.
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Oh, I see now... it's only everyday occurrences you're worried about. Or is it that you're only worried about incidents that compromise the holster? I'm confused. :confused: The BMW motorcycle accident was to illustrate that the weapon can discharge even locked in its holster if the right force is applied. You may think that event unlikely, but consider a perp attempting a strong, hard kick to your gonads and just barely missing. The toe of his boot catches the edge of the muzzle. Can he kick hard enough for the FP to compress the spring? Do you want to find out? How about slipping on icy steps or taking a fall down a flight of stairs? Could several sharp impacts discharge a pistol?

You're right as far as part of the equation goes. Slide a gun properly into a safe holster and, notwithstanding an internal malfunction, it should never discharge when no external forces act upon it.

My point is that everyday movements can disengage the safety, leaving the wearer unknowingly exposed to higher danger. It could possibly discharge if he grabs for it in a hurry... or if he slips and falls on those icy steps. I've had the safety disengage on both a 1911 and a "Walther style" slide-mounted safety from nothing more unusual than spending a day running errands. Not what I want to have pointed at my femoral artery (or other important parts).

I grew up the son of an aerospace reliability engineer, repeatedly hearing my fathers say Anything man-made will fail and usually in some way the design engineers never anticipated. When it came time to carry a firearm for a living, his advice was to never let the muzzle point at my body while relying on safety mechanisms for protection.

People still have the freedom to make their own choices regarding holster placement and muzzle discipline. We should all weigh the risks and vulnerabilities to each method of carry before making a decision. Pretending that a holstered gun is "perfectly safe" and will never go off is to ignore history and reality.
 
I really don't know where to start, Bill. You seem to be grasping at straws to support your argument. I don't think that's reasonable.

Yes, the human body twists and contorts under normal movement. That's why good gear to secure your equipment and keep retention is important- so your gear doesn't become compromised.

A modern handgun which is in proper condition will not go off when dropped. Even falling down stairs. And are you really worried about being kicked hard enough to cause your 1911 to go off? And regarding that- is it common for 1911's to have "free-floating firing pins?" I'm not familiar with that platform so honestly don't know. If it is, that's another reason I'm not interested in them.

I have chosen guns with operating systems specifically not having manual safeties so there is one less thing to worry about. But if you don't have gear which will prevent a manual safety from being deactivated during normal daily activity, you should get gear that works better. Or get guns without safeties.

And if I did carry guns with manual safeties, I think I would make it a part of daily routine to check the status and not assume it's always activated. "Unknowingly" doesn't work with a person responsibly carrying their gun. It's their business to know.

Everyday occurrences- those are ones that you and I may find ourselves in that are not to the extreme, like the ones you keep coming up with. A perp kicking you in the balls and hitting the muzzle and causing your gun to go off? Really?
 
My point is that everyday movements can disengage the safety, leaving the wearer unknowingly exposed to higher danger....
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It happens on occasion with my 1911 as well. It bothers me enough to check it at least a few times a day, even though I realize the gun has other safeties. Also I can't help but feel glad the gun is generally pointed at only a tiny fraction of my butt.:D
 
I spent a lot of time in Northern Ireland where we often moved around covertly in a wide variety of military tasks, where civvies and unmarked cars were the norm. I carried a Browning Hi-Power during one tour and then a SIG P226; having tried most different kinds of holster I always prefered a standard or high ride holster on my right hip (3 o'clock) and the magazine holder (with 2 spare mags) on the opposite side at 10 o'clock.

The nice thing about having your holster at 3 o'clock is that it stays put whether you are getting in and out of a car, or are walking around a lot. That way I always knew where my pistol would be and muscle memory took my hand straight to it every time. Simarily the magazines are in the same place, so when I reload I don't have to think about where the magazines are - they stay in the same place each time.

When you need your weapon in a hurry, the last thing you need is to fumble around for it.

Also your arm over the holster helps to conceal it and retain it in a crowded place, as it will prevent a member of the public bumping into you and realising that you are carrying.

I'm bemused by the suggestion that items of clothing or anything should induce a negligent discharge when you reholster; the only thing that makes a pistol go off is your finger on the trigger! Anyone who isn't reholstering with their finger outside the trigger guard, pointing down the frame, is badly trained and looking for somewhere to have an accident.

Firearms safety isn't about external factors. It's all about properly trained people who are careful and know what they are doing; forget all the safety features on your weapon, forget about grip safety, the thing that makes it to 'bang' is your finger squeezing the trigger.

That index finger is the ultimate safety device and 'you' control it.
 
i like to carry at 4 or 5 oclock with a serious forward cant, almost horizontal, or with a super high ride clip holster so the gun is straight up and down but most of it is above my belt line. They both hide well and are easy to get to, and arent a pain when i sit down.
 
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