Hollow Points For Self Defense

S

stump1000

Inactive
I'm pretty new to the handgun world. I just bought my first pistol, a Ruger p89.

My friends are telling me different things about hollow points. Conflicting information I guess.

I'm trying to decide if hollow points are what I should keep in my 9mm clip for defense purposes.

Thanks! And I love the site, been lurking for quite a while and decided to sign up today.
 
Use FMJ for the range and keep a quality HP in your magazines. Everyone has their own preference, but you can't go wrong with Gold Dots, HST, Golden Sabre, Ranger, SXT, Corbon, Hornady Critical Def or PDX1. I carry 147 grain HSaT in my 24/7 OSS with a 5.25 inch barrel and 124 gr Golden Sabre in my short barrel PF-9.
 
Most folks carry HP rounds for self defensive use. Most usually use rounds specially designed for self defense such as CorBon, Magtech, Hornady or any other major brand with a good reputation.
 
Welcome to TFL. Hollow points are designed to expand on impact and therefore make a bigger wound channel. The bigger the hole the more damage. So most people do carry hollow points in their "magazine". Hollow points are also less likely to overpenetrate the target.
 
Every major manufacturer makes a generic style JHP. These would be sub par for self defense purposes IMO. Like others have said, a quality JHP is what you should look for. They typically have a fancy name to them.
 
The P89 is a good tough gun. I would personally recommend the Speer Gold Dot 124gr +P. With hollowpoints, you want speed to make 'em pop open.
 
stump1000,

The primary mechanism of incapacitation of a human threat is blood loss and shock. This blood loss is accomplished by a bullet crushing tissue and causing hemorrhaging. The greater destruction of vessel packed tissues the faster the threat is incapacitated.

Thus, the choice of hollow point handgun bullets. All defensive handgun cartridges are under powered. That is why it is taught to shoot at least twice to center of mass and assess the situation and shoot more if necessary.

Hollow point bullets are supposed to deform into a larger diameter than the undeformed bullet and crush a greater volume of tissue as it travels in the body of the threat. Hopefully, the mushroomed/deformed bullet penetrates sufficiently (12" or more) to reach critical areas of the human anatomy.

Part of choosing the right hollow point bullet for your gun is to test many rounds to determine whether that cartridge is reliable in your gun.
 
Speer Gold Dot!

Probably one of the more preferred defense rounds available at the moment. I don't believe I've ever read or seen anyone having feeding issues with them. And as mentioned above, everyone is going to have their own favorite and or opinion.

Pick one, and run a few mags with that particular ammo to check for proper functioning. They all serve their purpose, but the main thing is that your weapon functions properly with your desired load/brand.
 
my 9mm preference is the Win Ranger 127 +P+. That was my issue LE ammo
and now retired, still use it in my Glock 19 & Kahr K9.

I also will buy the Speer 124 +p and Federal HST 124+p, if no Win Ranger
available.

I think as long as you are buying reputable brands, such as mentioned above and others such a Rem Golden Saber, etc., you'll be fine. Get what is on sale, of course only after running a good number of a particular brand through your pistol to ensure they are being digested properly before you trust it as carry ammo.
 
A point to ponder

How can a HP be expected to work right in all conditions?

Lets say its summer, and your target is wearing nothing but a t-shirt. A HP is expected to expand and penitrate, OK lets say it works. Fine.

Now take the same round, same target, only its winter and the target has on a heavy down coat. How can you expect the bullet to work the same way, expansion and penitration.

Or let say, you have two targets, One is skinny, one is rather Fat, Again how can you expect the bullet to work the same on both targets?

I'm no engineer, but I can THINK. I've been to enough autopsies to know no two bullets react the same way, even the same bullets out of the same gun hitting the same target.

Below is a picture I took of shooting a Black Hills 125 Grn HP, +9 and a Lvman 358477 150 grn SWC, (range lead) pushed by 4.5 grns of 231. I shot them into wet phone books. I also used the same bullets fired at a dry phone book. I didnt take pictures because I couldnt find the HP, it didnt open and went through the book altogether. The SWC had slight damage and almost made it completely through the book.

Whats the answer, GOT ME, I use SWCs, they seem to work more constantly. I've finished off several moose (from moose-vehicle accidents when I was in LE) with SWCs out of a 4 in Model 28 Service Revolver, never had to shoot one twice. I've also finished off deer while hunting with my 642 using SWCs (the same load as listed above), Based on my experience I'll stick to my SWCs.

BUT, to each his own. If everyone liked the same thing, there would only be one bullet out there and we wouldnt have anything to talk about.

342%20%20bullets%20002.jpg
 
kraig, you had to go and confuse the new guy with handloaded wadcutters in a caliber he isn't shooting...:p

stump:

Get a couple boxes of 9mm Gold Dots. Run two mags worth through your gun. If they work with no reliability issues at all, load the remaining cartridges in the magazine and use them for self defense purposes.
 
Definitely choose a reliable hollow point. As others have said correctly, they reduce the risk of non-combatants being hit, less penetration, and more potential to cause damage to your target and stop the attack.

Yes, some hollow points work better, and yes there are plenty of stories about such rounds not having the proper result on the target.

Bear in mind however, that every handgun round is a compromise of mobility over firepower.

I highly recommed Federal HST 124 gr 9mm. I carry it, trust my life to it.

I also highly recommend Speer Gold Dot. I carry the GD in my 1911 .45.

I feel confident that if I ever have to use my gun, the rounds will do the job.
 
In a revolver, you have the option of going to a flat-nose design to increase wounding power without going to an expanding slug.

In an auto like the 9mm, you don't. Period. Not if you want feed compatibility.

So you go with the next best option - an expanding slug with a good rep for expansion.

The best three in 9mm are the DPX, Gold Dot 124gr and Winchester's 127gr. Of those, the only reason I like the Gold Dot is that I don't trust +P+ in general so I give the Winchester a skip, and the DPX isn't loaded quite as hot because the slug is longer therefore less case capacity. In a smallish case like the 9mm, it matters.

The Gold Dot 124 also has a good rep for feed reliability in autos.

I'm not a big fan of Federal in general. Too many cases of lower-than-standard power levels and outdated bullet designs...the Hydrashock is obsolete and very vulnerable to clothes-clogging.
 
Lets say its summer, and your target is wearing nothing but a t-shirt. A HP is expected to expand and penitrate, OK lets say it works. Fine.

Now take the same round, same target, only its winter and the target has on a heavy down coat. How can you expect the bullet to work the same way, expansion and penitration.

Or let say, you have two targets, One is skinny, one is rather Fat, Again how can you expect the bullet to work the same on both targets?

I'm no engineer, but I can THINK. I've been to enough autopsies to know no two bullets react the same way, even the same bullets out of the same gun hitting the same target.

Below is a picture I took of shooting a Black Hills 125 Grn HP, +9 and a Lvman 358477 150 grn SWC, (range lead) pushed by 4.5 grns of 231. I shot them into wet phone books. I also used the same bullets fired at a dry phone book. I didnt take pictures because I couldnt find the HP, it didnt open and went through the book altogether. The SWC had slight damage and almost made it completely through the book.

Whats the answer, GOT ME, I use SWCs, they seem to work more constantly. I've finished off several moose (from moose-vehicle accidents when I was in LE) with SWCs out of a 4 in Model 28 Service Revolver, never had to shoot one twice. I've also finished off deer while hunting with my 642 using SWCs (the same load as listed above), Based on my experience I'll stick to my SWCs.
Click to expand...

While it's impossible to predict exactly how any particular bullet will react to any particular target, there are some generalities proven through many shootings.

Just as there are various types and "qualities" of hollow point bullets, there are also various types and qualities of lead. One hollow point bullet is not necessarily the equal of another, and the same holds, if anything, MORE true of lead bullets.

In general, non-hollow point lead bullets can be expected to penetrate deerper than hollow point bullets (either lead or jacketed lead). There are exceptions that depend on various factors, but for the most part it holds true. Over-penetration IS an issue if an SD shooting occurs in an area with other people present.

Hollow points generally cause more damage to tissue than non-hollow point bullets. If they fail to expand, they only become the equal of a non-hollow point bullet, provided penetration is the same. Otherwise, it's a toss-up on which will penetrate deeper. More damage is generally better if your life depends on stopping a perp intent on taking your life.

When it comes to hunting, plinking, or range shooting, I shoot a lot of lead and soft-point bullets. Over-penetration isn't usually an issue, and I want deeper penetration for hunting. When it comes to SD, I carry hollow points.

I've seen the results of each of various targets (rabbits, coyotes, deer, and such), and base my choice on that.

If lead SWC's work for you, then so be it. If that's what I had, I'd use 'em too, but I prefer good HP's for SD use.

Daryl
 
I'm no engineer, but I can THINK.
Click to expand...

The engineers who can design these can think as well. Since the FBI came out with its post-Miami protocols, quality hollowpoints have stopped being simple open tipped rounds and have literally become small machines, designed to expand under a variety of circumstances and speeds.

Find a round that meets the FBI protocols, and you'll find a round that can penetrate barriers fairly well while expanding in flesh quite well. Those rounds also tend to work very effectively in actual shootings on a wide variety of subjects.
 
Look up Dr Martin Fackler, expert in this field. The only round that produced 99.9 results all the time (expansion) was Pin grabbers, nicknamed felony grabbers/killers by Ayoob.

Here are some links about fackers findings.

http://www.rkba.org/research/fackler/wrong.html

http://chezjacq.com/fackler.htm

http://pw1.netcom.com/~dmacp/Fackler_review.html

http://bajaarizona.org/fklr/fklr.html

Enjoy.

To this date Jim Cirillo is the only LEO to hold the record number in shootings in the US, over 252, read his book called Guns, bullets and gunfights.
 
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Not trying to go OT, but since you've indicated that you're new to handgunning and that at least one of your primary motivations for buying one is self-defense I'd strongly recommend that you make getting some professional training/instruction your top priority right now. Then practice, practice, practice.

Only hits count, regardless of the type of projectile or its diameter. There are no "magic bullets" that will compensate for poor shooting and the "best" HPs can fail to stop a threat with a single hit, even when 'perfectly' delivered. IMHO, the advantage of professional training and dedicated practice is not only in learning how to place your shots well and quickly, but also in how to respond if your weapon malfunctions or when the threat remains active despite being hit.

That being said, I'd advise trying several of the options already suggested and using the one you and your Ruger do best with.
 
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