HK USPc vs. Walther P99

[Shake]

By the way,

What's wrong with Gun Tests? They do just as good of an accuracy test on guns as Guns-And-Ammo, Handguns, Combat Handguns, Guns, etc.

"Just as good of" the above can't be saying much, can it???



Shake

 

[jack_the_sailor]

I think I do my own test. Cal 9mm. Ammo Windchester 100 rd white box. Distance 21 feet. Weaver stance shooting controlled pairs. Accuracy requirment all shots in 10 ring with most of the X ring shot away. The HK USP 9 compact shot SA vrs the Walther P99QA. If accuracy is equal the pistol thats easyer to use wins.

 

[schild]

Before I mention my P99 I want to say I have four HK's(Mk.23,2-P7M8, USC). I've come close to buying a USP(9mm or .45) about half a dozen times, always find something more interesting, and thats how I ended up with my P99. We can't judge HK's by the factory target because HK-USA removes them from the guns and throws them out!(honest!) My P99's factory target has a five shot group that measures one and one quarter inches @ 25m. I feel that I'm just getting good with the P99 because each time I've shot it I've used a different grip insert, figured out last weekend the largest is best for me. I've put about 700 rnds.(all my 115grain reloads) through my P99, with no failures of any kind. As an ealier post said the P99 was designed for the 9mm and I don't think I buy a .40. If the P99 holds up like a Glock then I'll be impressed.

 

[NMGlocker]

If they want to truly come up with definitive results, they would select many examples of each model, in each caliber, and from different production runs. This, of course, would be cost prohibitive.

As opposed to G&A magazine calling up and begging a pistol from the manufacturer. Then getting a hand picked "demo gun". Like you can trust their OPINIONS either.

Thats why the internet forums like this one are so informative, you get a very vocal cross-section of owners.

 

[Extremist]

Shake asked:

Seriously, who did the test, and what were the results?

See my page and decide for yourself. Take the reviews for what they are worth. You may have a lemon P99, and there may be spectacular shooting USP Compacts out there. I just haven't seen them yet.

Walther P99 vs USP/USP-C

Regards,
James

 

[Shake]

Extremist,

I already have decided for myself based on my personal experiences with the USPs and the one P99 I've fired so far (I'm sure I'll have the opportunity to revise my opinion if the need arises). . . I'm sticking with my USPs.

One little dig I have to get in (and this is all in the spirit of a good argument). . . You stated:

I've never seen a gun test where the USP compact has bested the Walther P99, ever.

I respectufully refer you to your own web site, eighth link from the top

As far as your web page, great job. I still fail to see its relevance in that in the three head to head tests there is a meager 0.28 inch difference in average group size (in favor of the P99). Three examples of each gun in different calibers is not enough to sway my opinion one way or the other (especially when one of the "tests" was done by Gun Tests).

You did prove however why I take ANY results printed by Gun Tests (or for that matter any of the gun rags) with a large grain of salt. Having Gun Tests take a remedial statistics (or basic math class for that matter) would go a long way toward increasing their credibility in my eyes.

Double check the first head-to-head comparison of the P99 and the USP. In the far right column under "Walther P99" you will notice that the average group size for the P99 (1.65 inches) is larger than the largest group fired (1.63 inches). Interesting to say the least, but the Gun Tests issue is beside the point.

I think we can agree that we have each had different experiences with the P99 and the USP and have each chosen what works best for us.

For me the H&Ks will be THE gun until I find something I shoot better (which isn't likely to happen anytime soon).

Good shooting. . .

Shake

 

[Extremist]

Shake, sorry, I should have clarified the statement. I was referring to the Walther P99 in 9mm, the caliber for which it was originally designed.

In addition, the .40S&W cartridge is known for it's (uh oh, a generalization ) less than steller accuracy characteristics, compared to 9mm and .45ACP.

Regards,
James

 

[tetchaje]

Shake said:

If you seriously think that CNC machines are as easy to operate as you insinuate, you are fooling yourself. You can't just program the machine and hit the start button and go on your merry way. It really isn't that simple at all.

Actually, Shake, it is. Have you ever used the newer machines? Just finish your drawing in CAD/Pro-E/Solid Works and export it to the CNC machine. By the time you get down there it is already done. Easy.

And, yes, I do know what I am talking about being a Mechanical Engineer.

 

[Shake]

tetchaje

Just finish your drawing in CAD/Pro-E/Solid Works and export it to the CNC machine. By the time you get down there it is already done. Easy.

My point is that in the real world there are many other issues to deal with such as tooling wear, quality control, quality of materials, etc.

AND, being a mechanical engineer doesn't give you real world knowledge of how CNC machines work. Theory is not the same thing as real world experience. It may be as easy as you say to create a single piece of work, however creating the same thing many times over within a set of strict tolerances is another chore. No offense intended, but insinuating it is easy demonstrates lack of experience with continuous production. . .

Not to burst your bubble, but labels (mechanical engineer, Phd., etc.) don't mean a whole lot to me. I work with engineers every day of the week. Some know their stuff inside and out, others are lucky to find their way to work.

Shake

 

[notbubba]

Shake is right.

tetchaje is very wrong.

Sometimes a 1/2" drill won't drill a .500" hole.
Sometimes the coolant isn't right, or the feed and speed are off, or a bad tool holder, or dull drill, or something else.