HK Lovers??

Does HK even still make an all metal gun anymore? While I like the P7's which aren't made anymore, I don't like the more "modern" HK's. I'm sure they function well, but they all look bulky and clunky to me - like they needed to use more plastic in the frame and steel in the slide to make up for the fact that they now make their guns out of plastic.

Someday, I'm going to have to shoot something like a USP 9 to see what all the fuss is about.
 
The VP9 is the first time in a long time that HK have given a flying monkey's about the civilian market. It comes out right around the time that they were suffering financial "issues" and had financial deadlines to meet.
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They certainly hurried it into production to meet this apparent "need" you've created - over a 4+ year period of R&D...
 
I own about all the higher quality pistols. (27 so far). I like many and love a few but choose to carry the USP Compact 40 most of the time. It feels like a lighter weight Sig P229. If you shoot a Sig well then you will shoot a USP well.
I keep going back to what works best in my hands. I love the ability to carry the gun in many different configurations. Its a extremely versatile, light weight, accurate, feeds everything, point natural, and battle proven design. HK ozzes quality and has a X factor about them. If you get what they are about, its easy to see why those that own them fall in love with them.


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like they needed to use more plastic in the frame and steel in the slide to make up for the fact that they now make their guns out of plastic.
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If you take the slide off of an HK and compare it to most polymer pistols, you'll find it's noticeably lighter caliber for caliber. Many manufacturers have gone to stainless steel while HK is still using carbon steel and the reduced weight is a plus (part of the reason why the older carbon steel slide SIGs have such a cult following). In addition, HK doesn't make one slide for say both 9mm and 40SW. They mill out as much of the slide as possible for each caliber resulting in a lighter slide. For instance, the slide on a USP compact will be lighter in 9mm than 40SW. Many manufacturers use essentially the same slide in both calibers and just alter the recoil spring. HK's method helps cut down on the weight of the pistol, but results in greater manufacturing costs.
 
Good point. Its true. My USP Compact 9mm is very so slightly different than my USPC 40. Looking at them you would say they are identical frames.
HK designs are caliber specific as oppose to a generic "one size sits all" most everybody else uses. It does cost more.
 
I have a P-30 (V3) in 9mm that I use for CC. I like this gun quite a bit for a lot of reasons and there are some things I'd like improved on as well. I don't consider HK's to be the "End All Be All" brand or to have the best quality, most accuracy, and best reliability all rolled into one. The same holds true for any other handgun manufacturer and even applies to rifle and shotguns for that matter. I find the more recent HK models to be well above average on the above and one of the better in terms of ergonomics and ambidextrous use. So while not a lover of any one brand, I do tend to gravitate towards brands that I feel are well made, ergonomic, accurate, and reliable.

I consider the VP-9 as one of the better striker fired models on the market. As good as they are, I don't plan on getting one since I already own a Walther PPQ (M1) and Steyr L9-A1. There's just no improvement or enough of a difference over these others for me.

Every brand/model has its fans for various reasons. No different than the fans of 1911's S&W/Colt revolvers, Glock's, & XD's. The fans of these see something that I don't and there is nothing wrong with that regardless of the side of the fence you reside on.

Get out and hold and shoot some different HK models. If you decide you have to have one, then get one. If not, move on and pick something else that meets all of your criteria.
 
I don't think I'm an HK fanboy, or likely to be in future. I've owned some earlier HKs, P9, P9S, P7, P7M8, etc, but until recently, none of the current production guns. I'm not a fan of plastic framed guns, but decided to try out an HK USP Expert in 9MM. It doesn't fit my hand as well as the SIGs, but other than that I can't fault the USP. I've not shot it a lot, but it has been literally 100% reliable with all the different types of factory ammo I've tried. Shooting carefully from a rest at 25 yards, it groups every bit as well as the SIG X-5 I had. The thing that has impressed me most though is the SA trigger. It is the best I've ever experienced on a DA/SA type pistol. It is about 4#, with a very clean break, and minimal overtravel. This, I did not expect. I still prefer the SIGs, but certainly not due to any issues with the HK, just personal preference..ymmv...
 
Calling TunnelRat

Stainless steel is made by replacing rather small amounts of carbon or iron with some other elements.

Since the percentage amounts are not huge, can we really tell from weight alone that a chunk of steel is high-carbon or is stainless? I mean, can we tell just by holding it, without measuring it?

Bart Noir
 
HKs, even the plastic ones, just seem to be more than the sum of its parts. Well thought out, well engineered. Sometimes their triggers aren't the best but they have been one ragged hole accurate, one and all. And what's not to love about that?
 
Since the percentage amounts are not huge, can we really tell from weight alone that a chunk of steel is high-carbon or is stainless? I mean, can we tell just by holding it, without measuring it?
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Generally? Yes. There are no absolutes, but I have yet to handle a stainless steel slide of relatively the same size as a carbon steel slide that was as light as that carbon steel slide. Stainless steel is ever so slightly denser than carbon steel, and assuming an equal volume that means the stainless steel will have a larger mass (Density=Mass/Volume) and Weight=Mass*Gravity so yes the weight is a means of determining material (albeit far from the best means).

Now is the difference in slides as noticeable as the difference between a feather and a piano? Not at all. But it is discernible, and noticeably so for many for the P series SIGs. Does that difference in weight matter? I carry a M&P with a stainless steel slide if that tells you anything, but I do find the slightly lighter weight a positive feature when I can get it.
 
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Metalboy,
Is it common to load the ammo backwards in the mags? Being a 1911 guy, I might just not get it!!!
 
I used to be a big HK lover... before I had to actually start paying for my own guns. Saving for an HK just wasn't in the cards.

I LOVE the USP. It is a great gun; I spent years saving for one; but finally gave up on it when I realized I could get a brand new Glock 19 I shot just as well for the same price as a USP that looked like it had been to hell and back (maybe it had).

I'm also a fan of the AR's, and some of the classic guns like the 91 Rifle and the P7.

Just not quite willing to pay the premium though. If I was a rich man I bet alf my safe would be HKs...
 
Bart Noir said:
Stainless steel is made by replacing rather small amounts of carbon or iron with some other elements.

Since the percentage amounts are not huge, can we really tell from weight alone that a chunk of steel is high-carbon or is stainless? I mean, can we tell just by holding it, without measuring it?

Bart Noir
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Sorry, this is going a little off-topic but I think it's an important point in the larger discussion about HK and I have a lot of personal experience that's highly relevant to this particular question.

I agree that just from holding and touching the slides it can be difficult to tell the difference between high-carbon steel and stainless steel. Partially this is due to the intense coatings and surface treatments that most guns have. To me, the difference between high-carbon steel and stainless is more obvious from the feel of the surface than the weight and you can't really feel the actual surface of the metal on most guns.

But as someone who has spent many hours sharpening stainless and high-carbon machetes (I used to work as a forester) the difference in the strength of these two types of steel is dramatic. With stainless machetes you can sharpen off huge shavings of material with just one strong stroke of the file. With high-carbon machetes it will take you many more strokes of the file to achieve the same result.

For this reason, when sharpening high-carbon it really helps to have a grinding wheel. With stainless you can sharpen the entire blade very quickly with just a file.

The types of steel used in gun slides are no doubt different than the types of steel used in machetes, but I think my example answers speaks to your question about whether adding a few percentage points of carbon to the steel can make such a big difference.

In my personal experience, the difference can be enormous.
 
Metalboy,
Is it common to load the ammo backwards in the mags? Being a 1911 guy, I might just not get it!!!
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No. I was very surprised when I looked at it, that somebody loaded it like that.
Whats even worst is, that the owner's manual is wrong.
 
ah, err, that .45 Compact seems to be rather dinged up right under the muzzle.
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Yes Sir it is, and I'm happy that your vision is sharp. And that's because sometimes my eyes are covering/blocking my vision.:D
Not because I'm old, I'm (only) classic....:D:D
 
Nathan wrote:Is it common to load the ammo backwards in the mags?
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It was done tongue and cheek by HK stating how reliable their guns are. As in reliable even with the bullets loaded in backwards.
 
It was done tongue and cheek by HK stating how reliable their guns are. As in reliable even with the bullets loaded in backwards.
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And sadly (enough) there are some people who doesn't know better.:rolleyes:
 
So HK is the one that started the trend of loading magazines backwards in photographs? I've seen a lot of people do this for aesthetic purposes.

Maybe this photography trend will be HK's big legacy to the gun world :D
 
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