Hiring 300 more AFT agents

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TLH

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I just finished a school with an ATF agent, nice guy. He mentioned that ATF is hiring 300 new agents. He mentioned that like all rookie cops they were going to be looking to "save the world" and / or make a name for themselves.

Their probably just being hired to answer the phones on the instant backgorund checks, don't ya think ???
 
And there will be 300 "members" showing up in black Suburbans to the Western State Round Up...

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Every man Dies.
Not Every Man Truely Lives...

FREEDOM!

RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE
 
Kodiac, your count might be off, but I'm sure you're right on with the concept. Nice living in 'the land of the free, and the home of the brave', eh?
 
Actually folks, its nothing that sinister. It has been quite some time since the ATF has had approval to hire new agents. The 300 that have been approved will nowhere near cover the amount of agents that they have lost to attrition in the last few years. Relax. I can say that, from a law enforcement position, trying to get ATF to act on most cases is all but impossible because they must get approval first from the Assistant US Attorney. If its not a big case, it will go away. At any rate, our best defense as responsible gun owners is responsible prosecution of the laws that are already in place. The jack-booted thug concept is vastly over-rated. Well, back to my black helicopter now.....
 
Aaaawwww... just when I get myself all worked up and ready to over-react, some rational guy walks in and ruins all my fun! Gee-whiz, I got my helmet on and everything. ;)
 
They get a lot of lateral tranfers as well, both in and out (preferably out). A fair number of recently hired Border Patrol Agents will apply for a lateral transfer to say the US Marshalls or other agencies that are difficult to get into directly.
 
From : Ivan8883 7-1-99 1037PM EDT To Benton Quest, your statement that "the jack booted thug concept is vastly overated" made me take notice. To whom is this concept vastly overated? Probably to the Feds themselves who have over eighty thousand armed Federal people right now(ATF, IRS, FBI. DEA, etc,) All Federal agencies are armed now and there have been many instances of abuse by the various armed Federal agencies. IRS is as bad as any of these alphabet soup organizations. The militarization of local police forces(automatic weapons,armored personal carriers,military uniforms) just adds to the police state mentality prevalent among law enforcement today. No, folks, the day of the friendly peace officer is basically long gone. Both Federal Police and local police agencies are becoming or already are arms of the one system being set up at this time in America and around the world. I really get riled up when I see such a statement as yours. People are learning, with good reason, to fear the police whether local or Federal. To document the abuses of Federal and local police would take volumes of books. Get Alex Jones video,Police State 2000. His website is info.wars. com. If you see this video ,you will see what the "jack booted thugs " have in store for the peoples of America.
 
Well...sorry to get you all riled up. All I know is that I am issued a Colt M4 and wear Danner boots to work everyday. However, I must have missed that memo.
 
Funny how you need those suppressed, select-fire HK MP5s and night-vis goggles to answer phones. Let's see, I need to look back to the "what do you drive?" thread to see if anyone said "black suburban".

And if anyone doubts whether ATF has way too much time on its agents hands, witness the case of Randy Weaver, who was repeatedly approached by an undercover agent who kept bugging him to just help him saw off his shotgun. (My god, of all the problems we could have our gov't officials working on....sorry f***stains). He essentially entrapped Weaver, but finally got him to agree to saw the shotgun shorter (it's of no small importance here that the law restricting sawed-offs is patently violative of the second amendment), then the FBI took over and proceeded to do everything they did to him - murdered his wife and arguably murdered his son for starters (and killed his dog). I can't imagine anything more underrated than the jack-booted thug FACT - I suppose I should add: IF Ruby Ridge was any indication of the current MO of these two agencies.

[This message has been edited by Futo Inu (edited July 01, 1999).]
 
Futo Inu,

Actually after the ATF arrested him, weaver refused to show for his court date. The Marshals service spent quite a while trying to peaceable bring him in. His dog and son where kill in a shoot out with the Marshals as was one deputy. After the death of a fed it became an FBI case (same reason they got involved in waco) and the HRT sniper shot weaver and killed his wife.

Jason
 
Doesn't matter. It was still wrong.

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John/az

"They come, they eat, they leave...
"They come, they eat, they leave...NOT!!

Bill Clinton (aka: Hopper) Al Gore (aka: Molt) Janet Reno (aka: Thumper)

Ants UNITE!
 
Jason, The reason Weaver missed his court date was because they gave him the incorrect date. The BATF lied to the US Marshal's office about Weaver's background and his son, Sammy was shot in the back after his dog was killed. If you think any of that was right, you are wrong.

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Ne Conjuge Nobiscum
"If there be treachery, let there be jehad!"



[This message has been edited by Jim V (edited July 01, 1999).]
 
Jim V,

Jim what are you talking about!!!!

I corrected the facts as reguard to who was involved and when. That was it. John/Az2 said that the facts where not important because the situation was wrong. I said the facts where important.

How did you read into that that I felt people getting killed was right?


Jason
 
Okay, Jason, Jim V.

(deep breath...)

To me, the underlying, foundational premise that precipitated this action was: The gun was "too short", and because of this "cosmetic" infraction, it led to the deaths of innocent people because, framed or not, they chose to stand on constitutional principles.

And, in MY view, because the public did not make a showing of support as the facts became known, WE, Joe and Jane Public, share in the blame, and strengthened these illegal laws that we're all bent out of shape over.

(my turn to take a deep breath...)

(Calm tones)

We really are on the same side. I wish I'd been there...

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John/az

"They come, they eat, they leave...
"They come, they eat, they leave...NOT!!

Bill Clinton (aka: Hopper) Al Gore (aka: Molt) Janet Reno (aka: Thumper)

Ants UNITE!


[This message has been edited by John/az2 (edited July 01, 1999).]
 
FromIvan8883 7-1-99 810PM EDT The Federal Marshalls were hidden in the woods without a warrant. Randy Weaver and his friend Mr. Harris were walking towards where the two Feds were hidden.The Weaver dog was inthe lead. Action started when one of the Federal Marshalls deliberately shot the poor dog. Naturally the Weaver party opened fire. One Marshall was killed and Randy Weaver and Kevin Harris ran towards their home. Randy Weaver's son was shot in the back and Killed. Vicki Weaver,with her baby inher arms, was shot and killed by Government sniper Ron Harihuchi(Sp) . Some sniper! If Col. Bo Gritz had not shown up,I am sure the Federales would have killed everyone remaining in Randy Weavers house. Randy Weaver was awarded 1 million dollars by a jury of his peers because of the Federal attack and murder of his wife and son. Death of federal Marshall was ruled self defense. Judge in the district covered by the incident tried to get hold of Ron Hariuchi and charge him for the death of poor Vicki Weaver. But Federal Court used a Supreme Court decision which stated that Federal authorities ARE IMMUNE FROM PROSECUTION WHILE ON A FEDERAL OPERATION WITHIN A STATE. Boys, guess what. This gives the Federal boys carte blanche to basically commit murder in our states. These are the facts.
 
I'm sorry guys I started such a fire storm. My "concern" when I posted this note was the limited qualifications that have been implemented under the Clinton administration.
I'm sorry I also have a have a Colt A-3 in the trunk and on occassion wear the boots.
In fact I'm very proud of any mission my local "Thugs" (as it was delicately stated) have taken part in. Which has always involved preserving life and treating everyone (suspect included) as respectfully as THEY will allow us to.
Yep, there are good tactical reasons for the surpressed MP-5's, the NVG's, and all the rest. Have officers screwed up on calls, yes, without a doubt. That's why our laws have modified so liberally over the years.
We are human, some do the job better than others and some shouldn't be doing the job at all. It isn't a perfect world.
Actually the AFT agents I've worked with over the last 22 + years have been some pretty up right and decent guys.
 
TLH, Benton and our other LEO TFL members, I'm sure you understand why these emotions run so hotly sometimes. However, that doesn't excuse painting all of you with the bloody brush of errant LEO's, federal, state or local.

I'm in my mid 40's, and when I grew up, LEO's were protectors. They were the guys in the white hats. That was always naive, but unfortunately we've had some bad apples in the last few years that have screwed up, and have caused the needless deaths of innocent men, women and children. And, they have helped create tremendous suspicion.

The problem is that those acts, combined with all of the oppressive legislation we've all seen, has led to where some civilians have real concern about the direction of government. Especially federal law enforcement. That concern is present to some extent at all levels in our society.

I still believe that the vast majority of LEO's are good, decent people who honestly want to stop BG's and aid honest civilians. But, it may take federal LEO's a generation to cure the reputation created by incidents such as Waco and Ruby Ridge.

It saddens me whenever I see the rhetoric become too strong on this issue. TFL's great strength is that it is a meeting ground for civilians, LEO's and military personnel. I hope that never changes. Not only because this forum provides such a great technical resource, but also because it helps keep the communication open between honest civilians and honest LEO's. We're both in the majority, and we need to keep talking with each other. We need you, and I hope you feel that you need us.

If my cynical comment above helped color this debate, I apologize. My family and I are able to sleep in peace to a great extent because LEO's protect our town. I do appreciate that, as I believe most TFL members do.

I think JJR had the best take on this - sometimes you've just gotta laugh about it.

Regards from AZ.
 
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