Higher-end 1911's: Any Comments?

I agree with DocH. If you are going to spend that much, get a full custom. Now who are you going to have build it, Brian Bilby, Dane Burns, Larry Vickers, Dave Williams (at the Springfield Custom Shop), Rock River Arms (they can do the job), or ???? There are several names I have not mentioned that are very worthy of being considered.

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John
 
I agree with the last two posters. If you are going to spend that kind of money on a pistol why buy a production gun. Have a pistol made for you to your specs. Get exactly what you need or want, not what someone thinks you want.
 
"Like commissioning a work of art . . . "

Well, lessee . . . A Baer is a "custom" gun. It's hand fitted and custom made. And when it's all done it's not just a work of art, it's a Baer.

But it sounds to me like someone with $2,500 to spend and doesn't know the difference between a Baer and a Kimber should maybe get a Kimber and put the rest of the money someplace safe.
 
Just as a point of reference... I have been shooting Kimber's for about 16 months. They are nice guns. Sure a problem here and there, but mostly good value for the money.

What am I shooting today?? The Les Baer TR Special. I could not believe the difference when I shot one over the weekend. Very accurate. The fit and finish are superb. I bought mine just about 3 hours after I shot one for the first time. Granted, it is a $1600 gun and you have also mentioned several $2500 variants. I can't imagine being $1000 happier than I am with the TR. :)

Oh yeah.... I got one of the last 2 spots in the TR Special Invitational Pistol shoot at Thunder Ranch Nov 3-4. A shoot just for owners of this pistol. Should be a HECK of a good time. Heidi made me feel like one of the family when I registered. :)

Bubba
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>A Baer is a "custom" gun. It's hand fitted and custom made. And when it's all done it's not just a work of art, it's a Baer.[/quote]

Hand-fitted and custom made by whom? Les Baer himself? I doubt it. It may be a work of art, but it's a gun made by some guy(s) in Baer's shop with the Baer name stamped on it. If you are a fan of Baer, great, more power to you. My point is that if MRH is going to drop 2 grand on a gun, he might consider a smaller shop where he can get a little more personalized service for his money.
 
In regard to JackFlash's comments that a person who doesn't know the difference between a Kimber and a Baer should just get the Kimber and put the rest of the money aside is totally uncalled for. MRH is searching for help...just what this section is supposed to be about, not debating or casting dispersions about his person or character.

MRH is looking for some help with a big purchase, trying to make a better informed decision. Just because he hasn't had the money or years of experience to know the difference doesn't mean he doesn't deserve to get the best gun he can afford. Since all of these are quality products, is the difference in price relative to the product really going to make a difference to MRH's needs? This is something he is trying to workout. Give MRH a break! Personally, I would rather buy the best I can afford which is what MRH appears to be doing here. He just wants to know what is best for his hard earned money!
 
A Baer is NOT a custom gun. Les hasn't made any custom guns for customers since he left Pennsylvania back in the 80's to run the Springfield Armory custom shop. A Baer is a limited production gun, but still a production gun. Not a custom. Les does not even SEE every gun that his shop turns out let alone touch them. Wilson, some Kimbers, and Rock River Arms also fall into this category. Although I must admit that with a Rock River the brothers Larson to permit some customization as a customer service, but I still do not consider theirs 'custom' guns. Bill Laughridge, Brian Bilby, Ed Brown, Royce Weddell(sp?), Alex Hamilton, Wayne Novak, Lauck, Dlask, Weigend, (and others) those people make custom guns. Keep in mind that a custom pistol could take years before delivery, at the very least months (mine took 18 months), and if you want it done by the man himself rather than by the shop it will take even longer (except in cases like Bilby, Hamilton, and Weddell who I know are one man shows and there is no shop help to do the work). As an example, if you want Bill Laughridge himself to build your gun, it could take 5 years and that is IF you can get him to agree to do the work.
 
Ahh, Jeff, I'll argue the point:

"Not a custom. Les does not even SEE every gun that his shop turns out let alone touch them. Wilson, some Kimbers, and Rock River Arms also fall into this category. Although I must admit that with a Rock River the brothers Larson to permit some customization as a customer service, but I still do not consider theirs 'custom' guns. [deleted] Keep in mind that a custom pistol could take years before delivery, at the very least months (mine took 18 months), and if you want it done by the man himself rather than by the shop it will take even longer (except in cases like Bilby, Hamilton, and Weddell who I know are one man shows and there is no shop help to do the work)."

I won't argue about Baer's shop. I doubt he sees many of the guns. I've visited the Rock River shop and met both of the gentleman there. Let's be clear that there are only the two pistolsmiths, and they certainly see every gun! I ordered two pistols from them last fall, and was able to specify exactly what I wanted. I consider both guns "custom" guns. I prefer a relatively "vanilla" 1911, so I wasn't really interested in an American Handgunner magazine cover 1911 with that oh-so-tactical 1911 style with a frame extension in front of the barrel or other "unique" features. It's taking nine months to get both pistols just how I want. I sure could have waited longer, but I don't think I would have gotten better.

I suppose I could have waited five years for Laughridge to build these pistols and paid a lot more money, but I don't think I would have ended up with a superior pistol. I won't argue with whatever you choose to do, but I'd be careful about putting too fine a point on the production/custom distinction.
 
Shuck this is easy. If you are looking to spend $2,500 then add another $350 to that.
Then I got 3 Words for ya.

Wilson Tactical Elite

If you are looking to keep it under that then I like the Wilson Stainless or 2 tone Protector or the Les Baer Custom Carry.

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All right, I've got about $1500-$1600 cash to spend, without having to sell anything. If I choose something over that, I'll have to sell my Freedom Arms revolver...which would be easy enough, and I'd be willing if the gun warranted it. Frankly, it sounds like I can get all the gun I need in a Baer TR or Premier, or Wilson Protector, and keep my revolver.

And, no, I don't have the patience that would be required for a true custom shop gun. Took me 5 months to get my Freedom Arms 97, and that was agony.

Off to work.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 1911Ford:
Shuck this is easy. If you are looking to spend $2,500 then add another $350 to that.
Then I got 3 Words for ya.

Wilson Tactical Elite

[/quote]

Ford,

Do you have first hand experience with this model? As stated in an earlier post I have one on order. I have yet to talk to someone who has actually shot one. I ordered it because it had all the features I wanted, but it sure would be nice to hear some good reviews.

Jeff
 
Ford: I would also be interested in hearing about your first-hand experiences with the Wilson products, in particular the Tactical Elite. Thanks in advance and God bless. Hugh
 
I agree 1000% with Jeff OTMG. For that money, you deserve a true one of a kind custom pistol that is built entirely to YOUR specs. That is the true meaning of the word "custom".
Your Colt 1991 is also a great base pistol to build a custom gun on. And it'll cost you far less money than what you originally stated, yet you will still get just as great a gun, if tuned by a good smith. Of course, it'll still say COLT 1991A1 on it, so it may not "feel" like a true custom gun to you. I have a 1991 that was worked over by Brian Bilby, and I absolutlely love it. I cannot imagine a full house custom being that much greater. Maybe just a tighter slide-frame fit (it that even matters to you). And just the pride of ownership in knowing that a gun is custom built from ground up for you.
I have another 1911 being built by Brian now, on a Caspian slide/frame. It will, however, have mostly the same specs as the Colt he did for me.
BTW, unless Wilson, Baer, RRA, or any of the high end production shops, or their distributors, happen to have some guns in stock, you will also be waiting a while for one of their guns too.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hawkeye:
Ahh, Jeff, I'll argue the point:

I've visited the Rock River shop and met both of the gentleman there. Let's be clear that there are only the two pistolsmiths, and they certainly see every gun. It's taking nine months to get both pistols just how I want. I sure could have waited longer, but I don't think I would have gotten better.
.[/quote]

Those two gentlemen are Mark and Chuck Larson. I met them when they were working for Mark Westrom at Armalite, before they went to work for Les Baer. They know their stuff (in fact you should see the AR-15 match trigger they came up with!). I did not realize that they are the only two in the shop, but their guns are not usually customs, just limited mass production. As I said they do offer customization, so custom guns, as the ones you bought were. You specified how you wanted them built and they were built for you, hence a custom gun. Note that it also took 9 months to get them. I just don't want MRH to think that he is buying a 'custom' gun if he walks into a gun shop and buys a Baer, Wilson, Kimber, or Rock River Arms pistol off the rack. Those are mass produced limited production guns. Yours are not. I would imagine that you probably had more than one conversation with Mark or Chuck explaining the how, what, and why of the features that you wanted on your pistols, as I have with my smith for my pistols. That results in a custom gun. It is the time you spent deciding what you want, the time spent explaining that to the smith, and the time he spent building the product. He says he wants a custom gun and as you know, you don't step up to the counter, lay down the money, and walk out with it. Wouldn't that be nice! :)
 
MRH, have you decided just what you want to do with this pistol? For instance:

Is this going to be a showpiece that you keep in a safe and only handle with white gloves on, or is it going to be a shooter that gets a lot of use?

Are you going to use it for self defense, "practical" competition, target competition, or plinking?

Are you going to carry it concealed?

How important is resale value to you?

By the way, a gunsmith I know told me that he had a customer order a custom carry pistol with a Caspian damascus steel slide (big, big $$$!) that he wanted left "in the white". The gunsmith tried to explain to the customer that the unfinished steel would be very susceptible to rust, but the customer had his mind made up. Oh well...
 
I've got a Baer Premier II, bought "slightly" used. Superb pistol, has everything I want on it, and has NEVER jammed, no matter what I feed it. (Mostly cast RNL, but a fair amount of cast SWC's, some hollowpoints, etc.) Can't say that about ANY other .45 I've owned. It's far more tightly fitted, and yet still more reliable, than my old Colt National Match. The only difference in functional features between this LBPII and a significantly more expensive Wilson I examined was more sharp edges on the Wilson.
Baer's TR Special is a fine gun, too, but if you carefully look through the detailed price lists in Baer's catalog and compare the TRS to the Premier II, you'll find you're paying over $100 extra for the TR logo...

IMHO you can get everything you need - and then some - for somewhere in the $1500 range. Spending $2500 may get you some cosmetic features (like checkering the rear of the slide) and, of course, the opportunity to show off how much extra cash you have to spend, but I really don't think you'll see any improvement in the functionality of the pistol. (Think "Law of Diminishing Returns." IMHO, it kicks in around $1500. YMMV.)
 
Can't stand to have a gun and not shoot it. Nope, it would be shot -- a lot. 100-200 rds/week (I do have other .45's to give attention to).

I don't carry -- my job (lawyer) makes it impractical (for me), going in and out of the courthouse, back and forth to the courthouse, several times a day, then down to the jail, to the bank, etc., etc.: I would wind up in serious trouble.

Gun stays with me in the truck, sometimes in the office, always in the field.

Primary use, then: targets, plinking, hunting, and kicking around the countryside, but trustworthy etc. enough for self-defense. Has to be a 5" Govt slide, though. Resale value? I'd say it doesn't matter, but you never know when you're going to trade up.
 
Sorry fellas I don't have any first hand experince with the Tactical Elite. I just ordered a Stainless Protector from Wilson. I can only recommend the TE by all of the research that I have done and knowing that it is one of the best of the best. I believe that what sepperates it and the Classic Super Grade from the other Wilsons are that a little more attention to smaler detail is paid to the gun. The only real first hand experience that I have with the higher end 1911's is with the Les Baer PII. It also is a nice gun. I still think if I were to buy a Les Baer I would get the Custom Carry in the Stainless 5" model.

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Talk about the greatest pistol ever made.
www.1911Forum.com
 
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