Hi-quality ARs sure seem "sold out" a lot!

Glad I bought my DD AR15 back in the fall. DD website showing out of stock for some time now. It would be terrible not getting a quality AR if the bad scenarios happened suddenly.
 
The problem I have is that so many people online take their desires in a rifle and project them as what is appropriate for everyone else. I hear all this talk about Carbine class this, and mil-spec that, and MPI testing. I don't care about any of that.

For me, I want a fairly reliable rifle that shoots as well as it can possibly shoot. RRA has been known for a while to produce many great shooting rifles with a quality factory trigger. Some of the other, "higher tier" brands gets all of their respect for their reliability with far less focus on accuracy. Sure, many of them can be accurate, just like many of the lower tier rifles can be reliable. If I were a betting man, I'd take an RRA against most anything near it's price range from an accuracy point of view.

I also feel that a lot of the reliability issues are simple to fix. Stake the gas key yourself. Make sure you have the proper buffer for your system. Use a quality extractor spring, oring, and black insert. Keep the rifle properly lubed. Keep quality, working mags. You do that and even your bargain priced rifles are going to run well. It seems many people act like what comes from the factory is how you must use a rifle, at least from a reliability stand point. Yet the first thing they do is tear off the handguards and buttstock for replacements. Kinda funny to me.

In the end, all rifles fail. Some go longer than others before failing. Buying based on Mil-spec data is no promise of a better rifle. It still has to be made and assembled properly. Many who make such a rifle also have decent QC on their work, but again, everything fails. To think that buying a BCM or Colt makes you immune from failure is naive and asking for trouble. It's also naive to think that for many users, a $600 "low" tier rifle won't be just as useful and reliable for a given user as a $1000+ "top" tier rifle.

On the same note, for those who demand the most reliability out of a rifle it's naive to assume that a budget rifle will always perform to their needs.

I recently bought a NM rifle, certainly not Mil-spec, and it is exactly what I wanted. The fact it may not have BCM on the side is of no significance to me, and in truth, is a benefit. So don't assume it must be "tier 1" or it's junk, similar price or not.
 
Benzy: You are 100% correct. But don't forget the underlying message of many of the threads. Including this one. That message is:

"If you can buy an AR platform rifle in the $600-$700 range, that will fit your needs, then that's definitely a good option that you should consider. If however, the price you are looking at is in the $900-$1000 range, then you have crossed over to the price you can get Colt, BCM, and a number of higher end AR's"

I.e. My S&W M&P15-OR on sale at $649 was a great deal. (In my opinion). My S&W M&P15-OR at it's normal price of $949-$1069 is NOT A GREAT DEAL!!! I could buy a BETTER AR like a Colt for that price. Even if I didn't need the higher quality. Might as well buy the better rifle for the same price.

Same with Rock-River, Bushmaster, etc.... One of these rifles at $600-$700 is a great price, and definitely should be considered. If the shop you're going to is going to charge you $900-$1000 for it, then you should consider paying roughly the same price for a higher quality rifle like a colt, bcm, etc... Or at least recognize the fact that the place you're looking at buying from it way over-priced. I went to a gun show yesterday. They had a DPMS new for $895. They had a Bushmaster for $1050. Why would I buy either of these at that price, when I can buy a Colt 6520 for $899???

The answer is patience. If you can't wait; won't shop around; won't shop online; won't compare prices; and you simply have to touch it and buy it today; then yes..... Go buy the Bushmaster, Rock-River, or DPMS for $900-$1000. No one's stopping you. Just don't try and say that it's the same quality at the colt or BCM. You can say that it performs just "AS GOOD AS" the higher level for what you need or want it to do. That can be quite accurate. My M&P15 performs "Just as Good as" the colt and BCM for what I want and need it to do. But if I was still in the military in the sand box, I'd want the colt. But I'm not in the military any longer, so I don't need it. But I'm not stupid enough to pay $949-$1069 for my M&P15-OR either. If I was going to pay that, I'd be better off buying the Colt or BCM or some others for the same price.

Again; the only reason to spend $900-$1000 on a Rock River, BushMaster, etc... is because you're impatient or ignorant; and you want the gun now. Nothing wrong with that. People just need to admit that and move on. I.e. "Yea; I spent $950 on this DPMS, and I know I could have gotten a colt or BCM for that price, but it was available for my to touch and hold, and I wanted it today"..... That's all a person has to say. Don't try and rationalize that it's the same quality as the colt or BCM. Just that they simply were willing to pay the extra, for the convenience of having it TODAY.

In the same breath, the Colt, BCM, DD, and owners of the higher end AR's, need to put their penis envy away, and stop believing that their AR's are so much more superior. Are they superior? Yes. But the majority of areas that the weapon is superior in, are totally irrelevant to the normal AR owner who wants one to shoot targets, a couple prairie dogs, and to possibly grab in the middle of the night if someone breaks in. These people are probably going to shoot 1000 rounds or less per year. Maybe 1500. For them; the M16 BCG, higher strength steel, heavy buffer, individually QC's rifle, 1:7 twist, etc... just doesn't mean anything. And it really doesn't mean anything. The person talking military use, LE use, high round count use, etc... and trying to compare it to civilian use, target use, home defense use, etc... is comparing apples to oranges and trying to come up with a fuel injector. They simply don't mean crap. But the person who spent $900-$1000 or more on their Bush, DPMS, Rock, etc... needs to simply admit that they bought it at that price because they were either ignorant or impatient. Not because these rifles are the same quality as the colt, bcm, dd, etc... And logically; there is no reason to spend as much money on a lower quality item when you can get the higher one at the same price. Except for you paid more for convenience.
 
For HD, knowing my life is on the line I prefer quality over a few dollars saved. A couple hundred dollars difference for a more quality rifle is not going to break me knowing my life is worth more. How do I determine if I am going to get a good quality rifle -doing my research on forums like TFL . I researched for 2 or 3 months on websites before I decided on the DD AR15. I feel confident if I have to ever use my rifle in HD situation or any emergency I will have a rifle that will meet the challenge. That in itself is worth $150.00 to $200.00 more to me. I'm no gun snob and I'm sure there are better rifles than DD, but I felt I got a good deal and a good quality AR15 rifle.
BTW there must be something about good quality rifles because they are hard to get right now.
 
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Nothing wrong with that Freedom. But if you think an M&P15 or a Rock-River isn't going to do the same job for home defense as a colt, BCM, or DD, you're quite mistaken.

Where the difference in quality comes in, is not in the area of pulling the trigger and wondering if it's going to go bang when you need it. Contrary to what many people who spend more money with the rational of "My, and my family's life is worth it", think; the M&P15, Rock-river, DPMS, etc... will definitely do that. Where the differences matter, is if you're into high rates of fire, high round counts, adverse environmental conditions, etc....

But the average AR owner is not blasting 5000-10000 rounds a year. They aren't shooting full auto and getting the barrel and gas tube bright red. They aren't crawling in the mud, diving behind concrete walls, and running across streets and possibly dropping their weapon. That's where the quality issues in the Colt, BCM, DD, LMT, etc... come into play. But when it comes to consumer use; hitting targets, shooting prairie dogs, possible home defense, etc... I have just as much confidence in my M&P15, or a DPMS, as I do the Colt that I used in the military.

And that's where some of the higher-end owners go astray. They believe that their "mission" or "Use" of the gun, is equal to that of the military person in Iraq or the police officer on a swat team. They aren't the same.

So again; if you're in the market for an AR, and you can find a great deal on an M&P, RR, DPMS, etc..., then definitely look at it and consider it if you're interested in it. But if you're going to break that $900 price mark on one of those brands, realize that you can get one of the higher quality AR's for the same/similar price. If you go to McDonalds and order a medium coke, and they tell you that ALL SIZES TODAY are $1, would you like the larger one for the same price; you would be foolish not to get the larger one. "Even if you don't think you need it". It's the same price. If the dealer has 2 F-150 pickups; one base model and the other fully loaded, and they are the EXACT SAME PRICE "TODAY ONLY SALE"; you'd be foolish not to get the fully loaded version. Even if you didn't think you needed all the extras. Well, the same with AR's. If you're going to spend the same amount on a Rock-River, DPMS, M&P, or Bushmaster; that you can get a colt or BCM for; then you should get the Colt or BCM. It's only logical. "Sorry; don't say the bush, DPMS, or Rock-River is the same quality as the colt or BCM. They aren't". But; if you can get the M&P, Rock, DPMS, or Bush for $600-$700, then that would definitely be something to consider. That's what I bought my M&P15-OR for.

As far as the various AR's being able to perform the "Normal" civilian tasks of target shooting, varmint/prairie dog shooting, possible home defense, etc...; YES, the m&p, DPMS, Bush, Rock, and most others are "Just As Good As" the colt, BCM, DD, LMT, etc... And if a person doesn't think they are, they are mistaken. Again; we're not talking about the minority who shoot 5,000-10,000 rounds a year. The person who uses it on a SWAT team. The person who is into 300+ yard competitions. The Military. Or even those who believe in the Red-Dawn scenario and are practicing and preparing as if they were in the military. We're talking about the overwhelming majority of gun owners. Anyway; to each their own.
 
There's nothing new with gun control laws. No new ones are planned. And honestly, there is no real shortage of AR's. There's just a shortage of Build your own parts. More people are getting into building their own AR, and companies like BCM happen to be really small. So their production isn't like colt, bush, S&W, etc... But there isn't a gun shop around me in 3 states that has any shortage of AR rifles. Small shops as well as big box stores like Sportsman's warehouse and sports authority. Only people looking for custom built or BYO are having issues.
 
Christcorp
I know people can still find AR's but how do you account for several websites showing out of stock on top tier AR 15 rifles. This seems strange to see so many AR's out of stock. Is supply not keeping up with demand, and if so what is creating this demand?
 
At any time, I've found one company or another "Out of Stock" on something. With the economy the way it is, I have to assume that manufacturers are simply producing less. Also, with more individuals wanting AR's, local shops are stocking up. That's depleting a lot of the stock in distribution. We had a gun show in town this weekend. There were more AR's than I normally see. Then again, I've noticed gun shows vary a lot in what they have to offer each show. The last show; promoted by the same organization as this one; which had many of the same vendors, barely had ANY AR's. This time, tons of them. Last time, more .223 ammo than you could shoot in a lifetime. This time, barely any worth speaking of. And I'm sure than in another month or two, when we have another gun show, the inventory will be mixed up again. It's been this way for the last 30 years of me attending gun shows. The only one that I've ever seen that had a drastic price increase and overload, was just prior to the 1994 AWB. People we're paying for anything they could find. Then again during the Obama scare of 2008. The next gun show had little offerings.

There are about 5-6 companies online that I use as a gauge. If they are still selling, then I have confidence. CDNN, Atlantic Firearms, and impactguns are some that I use. If they're still selling, then I'm confident. I also use their price as a gauge for what the average prices should be.

Is stock down with most suppliers? I think so. Is it because of politics? No. It's just supply and demand. Last year, ammo prices were through the roof and hard to find. Today; all of the calibers are available all over; including walmart, and the prices are basically normal. Rifles are no different.
 
christcorp,

I agree with you for the most part. If you are looking at a $1000 model X and a $1000 model Y, and model Y is of higher quality, there is little reason to buy model X. The part I have problems with is that in the AR world, you see two areas of concern, accuracy and reliability. The two often don't come together. Those rifles you mention typically have a focus on reliability with accuracy as a secondary end point at best. Nothing wrong with that priority list, as long as that is how the end user thinks as well. For me, I put accuracy first and absolute reliability second. If something happens to my rifle to stop it for the day, I'm a little bummed out and pick up one of a few others I took with me to the range. I go home and order parts to fix whatever malfunctioned or just clean the rifle if that's the issue. For me, those "better" brands typically come with chrome lined barrels and have little focus on being anything more than a 2MOA shooter. Some certainly do shoot better, but it often isn't the focus. For me, I find RRA a rifle length RRA to be a better rifle than many of the top tier rifles simply because they tend to shoot better.

While I understand the benefits they have, I also realize that RRA models have a 3/4" or 1" group at 100 yard guarantee, depending on model, which is beyond what most of those top tier guys will claim. If there was a way to show that one of those top tier rifles was going to be as good of a shooter as say an RRA, for the same or similar price, I'd be all over it instead. But, if I have to guess between a more accuracy focused rifle or a more reliability focused rifle as to which is going to be a better shooter, I'll put my money on the line more known for accuracy, even for similar money.

If you don't place the value on accuracy that I do, I certainly understand and agree with getting the "nicer" rifle. If it's something you plan to use hard I understand paying extra for the "nicer" rifle. If it's something you plan to use to defend your or other's lives with, I understand paying extra for the "nicer" rifle. But those aren't what I'm looking for and why I hate so many of these threads that bash on many of the mid priced ARs.
 
Noveske, Daniel Defense, BCM, Colt and others can be very accurate rifles if set up that way - and with ammo they like. But most buyers don't want varmint rifles, instead most want high reliability with just about any ammo you can scrounge up, thus the typical military 2MOA.

It's nice that RRA makes sub MOA accuracy guarantees with some of their rifles but they cut corners in important areas too. Also throw curveball ammo at them and see how tight the groups are.

Reliability is crucial in many ARs, accuracy is nice. In fact if high accuracy is so important why not get a bolt action...
 
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