Help with First Muzzle Loader?

M

Mosin-Marauder

New member
Good Evening everyone,

I've been looking over some things about Muzzle Loading and think I would very much like to get into historical rifles, at least one. I realize historic reproductions drive fairly high prices, but I am willing to save my pennies. I'd like it to be as accurate as possible but still be under a thousand. I'd like to possibly get this one next year. It's a reproduction of a 1853 3 Band Enfield. It was used by both sides during the Civil War, so I wouldn't have to buy two different rifles for both of my Civil War Reenactment Impressions (forgot to mention I am getting into reenacting as well haha, The Union Forever! :D).

http://www.regtqm.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=GUN-043

I apologize in advance, but I have some fairly long winded questions for you as well. Most could probably be answered by folks more experienced than I.

1) I know I need a lot of stuff to get into this, powder measures, bullets (will get to this specifically), cleaning supplies, tools, etc. I also know there are a lot of things one needs to know to get started in black powder specifically, aside from the regular shooting of smokeless powder rifles etc. Is there a good series of videos and books you guys could recommend to someone who is beginning black powder, but already has experience in non-black powder shooting sports? One that, preferably, covers aspects such as cleaning and the things one needs. ( I don't plan to buy any in-line muzzleloaders, if that helps)

2) Where do I find bullets for the thing? I see only .58 round balls, nothing conical that isn't in a Sabot. Would it be okay to shoot .58 Lead Balls out of a rifled musket? I probably won't be shooting bullets that require a Sabot.

3) How bad would recoil be? The most I've ever been kicked was with my .30-06 and it is bearable. I'm by no means "scared" of the recoil, but I also wish to enjoy shooting the firearm more than once and quitting, if you get my meaning.

4) Any additional advice is Very much appreciated.

Thank you for any help you can provide, I am sorry for the all the questions, they probably sound stupid to someone who is even a bit experienced, but I'm green all the same to this, so any help is greatly appreciated.

Regards,

-Mo.
 
First of the, 1861 Springfield was the most common rifle used in the ACW and was used on BOTH sides as well.

Second off, I think if you plan to shoot the rifle very much, you'll be better off casting your own bullets. .58 caliber Minie balls are expensive if bought pre-made, but casting is pretty easy and not too hard to get the materials for.

Others will chime in shortly who are the experts on these rifled muskets. ;)
 
I've also become a bit more interested in the historical aspect but haven't put much effort into it yet, though I do have several BP non inline arms. I'm not sure that less than $1k will get you what you are looking for. Your best bet might be Pedersoli which often runs $800-1400 or so.

You may have to look for personal casters unless you are willing to jump into that as well. I did as it was too expensive for the cap n ball conicals I wanted.
 
A bore mop is a great thing!

A ball may very well, though I'm not sure what twist it likely has. But I've seen some say they can get a ball to work in an extremely fast twist meant for long bullets.
 
I may try Casting once I get the rifle. I have thought about it a lot before.

The one I listed is an acceptable repro (verified by my Unit Quartermaster). It is just under $800 before tax & shipping.

Thank you for the answers so far!
 
I have an Armisport made back in the 80's. It's not a perfect rendition but is approved by the NSSA. Mine has a 1:48 twist and shoots minies very well and should shoot round balls well since minies with the hollow base act like round balls. Originals had a 1:73 twist. Service charge was 60 grains. I use a home cast 510 grain minie cast out of a Lyman mold. And yes bore mops are the way to go when cleaning.
 
I'd certainly get into casting. It's more than well worth it, especially if you'll be shooting even a modest amount.

The cap n ball conicals I was looking at became $50/100 + shipping. The mold I got to work the designs out (3 different designs in a 5 cavity mold) was a little over $200 to my door but lead was $1/lb. I can cast 35 bullets for that $1 of lead and pay no more shipping. It didn't take long before it paid for itself.

I was vague on the bore mop. It's a bore cleaning apparatus that attaches to your ramrod. Awesome tool!

Another thing will be the lube you'll use for your conicals. I've been using what's known as Gatofeo's #1 lube. It's a recipe that was found in a very old shooting magazine (30's maybe?) for an early 1900's outside lubricated bullet lube. This is the recipe (by weight):

1 part mutton tallow
1 part paraffin wax (Gulf Wax)
1/2 part beeswax

This is made in a double boiler. I've used it for wads, cap n ball bullets, and my rifle REALs.
 
The sight ladder is missing and the rear sights on the repro are nothing like the original. There's a few other differences but you have to look for them. The lock on the original is dated 1861. I said ladder, it's the slider that's missing.
 
Word to the wise:

Find someone w/ an Enfield to make sure the stock fit/cast/drop will allow you to "get down" on the sights.
The Springfield, on the other hand, will fit.

- Use Lyman's #575213-OS mould to cast the right Minie ball. (Patched roundball w/ swabbing between shots could work, but both are designed for the Minieball)
- Lube with 2:1 Crisco/vegetable shortening:Beeswax (just the Crisco if need be)
- 55-60gr of either 2Fg or 3Fg (whichever works/you can get)

Recoil is akin to a 20ga shotgun

postscript: I shoot an original "1863" Colt's Special Model contract copy of the Springfield, AND an excellent Pedersoli 1861 Springfield. I recommend it.
 
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I used to collect a lot of CW stuff but have since sold most of it. Still have the Enfield and bayonet plus a few other odds and ends. I also use a Crisco/beeswax mix. Crisco by itself is too runny in summer heat.
 
Welcome :)

In addition to the rifle, you'll need a few tools - generally:
-> A steel rod with a knob on one end, threaded on another, with various endings, one for seating bullets, one screw for pulling bullets, and several ends for cleaning. Normally can be found as a kit and isn't too expensive.
-> Nipple wrench
-> Muzzle guard is a good idea (protects the crown from damage, preserving accuracy)
-> A powder measure of some sort, or (my favourite for loading revolvers) a powder flask with an adjustable measure.

I bought, also, when I started the Lyman black powder handbook. Has all sorts of interesting information covering various segments of black powder shooting and is an interesting read. It also has ballistic data (interesting for, eg. hunters).

Casting your own is a good idea eventually, although for a start order some factory made balls of different types to see what you like. Round ball is cheaper to shoot and should be fairly accurate as well.

Grease you can make your own or buy factory made; everyone has their own recipe but in general, some tallow or fat and some wax, and there's your basic grease. The point of the wax is to make it less runny when it's hot, the more wax you put in the harder it will be in winter, but even 50/50 you can work with.
 
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I know I need a lot of stuff to get into this
Click to expand...
Boy, ain't that the truth.
A friend wanted to get involved with a re-enactment group.
After much study, he chose the French & Indian (7 Years) War.
And after pouring through all the supply catalogs and adding up the cost, he decided to be a Shawnee with just a hatchet, bow and loin cloth. :)
 
A very good starter book is Joe Bilby's Civil War Firearms. He discusses the various types (rifles, carbines, pistols, sharpshooter rifles, repeaters, breechloaders) and how to use them. If you're going into reenacting, might I suggest you find a unit first; preferably one that readily galvanizes itself (switches from grey to blue) so you can interpret both sides of the conflict. By selecting the unit, you select the firearm appropriate to protray that unit. You don't want to be the one Enfield guy in a unit armed with Springfields.

Second, there are several types of reenactors. There are those who blast away toward (not at) other reenactors. There are also shooters too who load minies into their rifle muskets. Mind you, some take the precaution to have two separate long arms and one serves for reenacting and the other for shooting like in the N-SSA. If you haven't been to their website, go there. You can learn a lot from those guys (I did and still do).

I know a couple of reenactors who are on strict budget. Their solution is to protray artillerymen. Someone else has to buy the 12 pdr (or what not) and all the accoutrements. All they buy is the uniform, a haversack and canteen and learn the artillery drill. It's more affordable than buying a long arm and a pig sticker, cartridge box, pig sticker frog, etc.;)
 
1) I know I need a lot of stuff to get into this, powder measures, bullets (will get to this specifically), cleaning supplies, tools, etc. I also know there are a lot of things one needs to know to get started in black powder specifically, aside from the regular shooting of smokeless powder rifles etc. Is there a good series of videos and books you guys could recommend to someone who is beginning black powder, but already has experience in non-black powder shooting sports? One that, preferably, covers aspects such as cleaning and the things one needs. ( I don't plan to buy any in-line muzzleloaders, if that helps)
Click to expand...

You might want to check out this thread:

http://www.n-ssa.net/vbforum/showth...-on-a-Budget-quot-Information?highlight=SA117

This relates to N-SSA competition shooting, but it will give you some idea on how to get started shooting Civil War black powder firearms.

This reply:

http://www.n-ssa.net/vbforum/showth...n-a-Budget-quot-Information?p=50750#post50750

Will take you to a post with links.

You're going to want a cleaning rod, patches (I use 2x2 gauze from Vitality Medical), some cleaning solution (soapy water works fine), caps, and powder. You'll want a scale. You can use a cheap Lee balance scale. I use a Lee Perfect Powder measure for volumetrically dropping charges once I have dialed in the drop using a scale. I use an RCBS Chargemaster 1500 digital scale.

If you want to learn how to make period cartridges, check out this page:

http://4thla.weebly.com/paper-cartidge-patterns-and-information.html

2) Where do I find bullets for the thing? I see only .58 round balls, nothing conical that isn't in a Sabot. Would it be okay to shoot .58 Lead Balls out of a rifled musket? I probably won't be shooting bullets that require a Sabot.
Click to expand...

Period rifled arms were shot using expanding balls. Casting is easy to do and you can get set up casting bullets for under $100. See my post above for links.

I make lube out of 50/50 Crisco/Beeswax, but this is runnier than a period lube which was generally 8:1 beeswax/tallow or 3:1 beeswax/tallow depending on the time period. The period lube will fare better in authentic paper cartridges. The modern lube will likely wick into the paper and foul it.

3) How bad would recoil be? The most I've ever been kicked was with my .30-06 and it is bearable. I'm by no means "scared" of the recoil, but I also wish to enjoy shooting the firearm more than once and quitting, if you get my meaning.
Click to expand...

Competition loads are typically about 40-50 grains of 3F or 2F powder behind a 450 grain bullet. They are entirely manageable and are nothing to shoot. Period loads were a 500+ grain bullet with 60-70 grains of 2F. It is considerably more stout - my cheek gets sore after shooting those all afternoon. But I find them to be very tame to shoot. After all, you have a 9-pound gun taking up a lot of the recoil.

Steve
 
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