Help me pick an interesting carry gun
- Thread starter MikeGoob
- Start date
TheGuyOfSouthamerica
Moderator
I suggest the Beretta Pico. It is an 380 acp however.
But with modern ammo the 380 acp can easily penetrate an 18" gel block.
If used FMJ or cast lead bullets the 380 acp is on par with the 9mm Luger all the day.
I don't understand why people want allways hollow points. If "the 'ol lead bullet was good enough for our ancestors why not for us as well".
Just cast your own 95 grain or 120 grain lead bullets (Lee molds) and load 'em up. Since the lead is deforming by it's nature you do not need an hollow point. Once the lead hits hard surfaces (bones) it flattens automatically acting like an hollow point. Otherwise through soft tissue the lead bullet acts as an FMJ with it's deep penetration.
I wonder if there is an advantage of the "heavy" 120 grain lead bullet over the lighter 95 grain lead bullet regards terminal ballistics.
But with modern ammo the 380 acp can easily penetrate an 18" gel block.
If used FMJ or cast lead bullets the 380 acp is on par with the 9mm Luger all the day.
I don't understand why people want allways hollow points. If "the 'ol lead bullet was good enough for our ancestors why not for us as well".
Just cast your own 95 grain or 120 grain lead bullets (Lee molds) and load 'em up. Since the lead is deforming by it's nature you do not need an hollow point. Once the lead hits hard surfaces (bones) it flattens automatically acting like an hollow point. Otherwise through soft tissue the lead bullet acts as an FMJ with it's deep penetration.
I wonder if there is an advantage of the "heavy" 120 grain lead bullet over the lighter 95 grain lead bullet regards terminal ballistics.
Prof Young
New member
A touch smaller but . . .
Okay its 380, but the Sig P238 has some of the "most interesting" looking models I've ever seen. If I had enough $$$ to collect guns I get them all and make a display.
Live well, be safe
Prof Young
Okay its 380, but the Sig P238 has some of the "most interesting" looking models I've ever seen. If I had enough $$$ to collect guns I get them all and make a display.
Live well, be safe
Prof Young
I cross back & forth between nice CC pistols,
and cheap CC pistols...
because it's almost as much fun to
bring an old pistol back from the dead,
tricking it out with modern sights and mods,
as it is to buy a nice, factory issued S&W Chief's Special
Or, even more fun, find an old Chief's Special
that someone has jacked up, and have it Hard Chromed
and cheap CC pistols...
because it's almost as much fun to
bring an old pistol back from the dead,
tricking it out with modern sights and mods,
as it is to buy a nice, factory issued S&W Chief's Special
Or, even more fun, find an old Chief's Special
that someone has jacked up, and have it Hard Chromed
TheGuyOfSouthamerica
Moderator
Mike Goob,
Nice gun you show on the pic.
What brand is that? It says Italia on the slide. Seems to have an aluminum frame. What caliber is that? 25/32 acp?
Nice gun you show on the pic.
What brand is that? It says Italia on the slide. Seems to have an aluminum frame. What caliber is that? 25/32 acp?
TheGuyOfSouthamerica
Moderator
Mike Goob,
Your second pics look like the gun is an toy gun. At closer look it looks like it is an bb plastik gun.
As well those rounds look unfamiliar (the pic may be desproportionally stretched).
I never have seen that kind of rounds or caliber. Looks like something in between 38 spl and 9mm Luger.
You may consider this is an fake photo (of an toy gun).
Correction: It is the 7 Penna gun with it's propietary rounds and ammo.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7mm_Penna
Your second pics look like the gun is an toy gun. At closer look it looks like it is an bb plastik gun.
As well those rounds look unfamiliar (the pic may be desproportionally stretched).
I never have seen that kind of rounds or caliber. Looks like something in between 38 spl and 9mm Luger.
You may consider this is an fake photo (of an toy gun).
Correction: It is the 7 Penna gun with it's propietary rounds and ammo.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7mm_Penna
TheGuyOfSouthamerica
Moderator
The 7mm Penna gun would be at most an novelty.
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4036180
The caliber has about the +P velocities of an 9mm Luger (or 22 lr stinger) and the mass of between 48 grain and 68 grain (maybe in the ballpark of an 25 acp to 32 acp).
Should be about similar performance as an 22 magnum.
Energy wise the 7 Penna (68 grain and 1350 fps velocity) has an muzzle energy of 275 lbs/ft. That is in the ballpark of an 22 magnum.
You may get as well an 22 magnum instead. In any case the 9mm Luger has better performance and the 380 acp is not far behind eighter.
Get an 380 acp for concealed carry gun (mouse carry gun) or an 9mm Luger/45 acp gun.
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4036180
The caliber has about the +P velocities of an 9mm Luger (or 22 lr stinger) and the mass of between 48 grain and 68 grain (maybe in the ballpark of an 25 acp to 32 acp).
Should be about similar performance as an 22 magnum.
Energy wise the 7 Penna (68 grain and 1350 fps velocity) has an muzzle energy of 275 lbs/ft. That is in the ballpark of an 22 magnum.
You may get as well an 22 magnum instead. In any case the 9mm Luger has better performance and the 380 acp is not far behind eighter.
Get an 380 acp for concealed carry gun (mouse carry gun) or an 9mm Luger/45 acp gun.
MikeGoob said:
I've been chasing that unicorn for years to no avail...
After ~15 years and many newcomers to the micro9 group, the PM9 is still very hard to beat as a pure ccw.
But, I'm in the camp that avoids all complexity in a ccw - no safeties, etc - just a smooth reasonably long(er) trigger pull combined with proper storage and handling is enough to remain safe, yet instantly usable.
The only thing I'd change on the PM9 is the blocky slide release, I'll buy another the second they integrate it into the frame somehow.
Aside from that, Skans brought up a very interesting alternative to look at.. the HK P7.
TheGuyOfSouthamerica
Moderator
For concealed carry why go with the 9mm Luger?
Just go with the 380 acp.
Even in an Plastik SD9VE full size 22 oz gun I find the 9mm Luger to hard to shoot. To snappy, flinching&recoil anticipation, lots of misses.
For CCW I never would go with an 9mm Luger but at most go with the 380 acp. The conceiled carry weapons are mostly 12 oz guns and Shooting an 9mm Luger out of that I would not like at all.
Just go with the 380 acp.
Even in an Plastik SD9VE full size 22 oz gun I find the 9mm Luger to hard to shoot. To snappy, flinching&recoil anticipation, lots of misses.
For CCW I never would go with an 9mm Luger but at most go with the 380 acp. The conceiled carry weapons are mostly 12 oz guns and Shooting an 9mm Luger out of that I would not like at all.
380 is still a little under performing in my opinion:
http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/#380ACP
Not at all terrible if I had to use it, I would. I just have no problem handling a 9mm in a small Kahr PM9 or my Sig 938, I switch carry between both of these. Accuracy is good for me under 4 meters.
I also have a lot of 9mm ammo, so fewer calibers is simpler
http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/#380ACP
Not at all terrible if I had to use it, I would. I just have no problem handling a 9mm in a small Kahr PM9 or my Sig 938, I switch carry between both of these. Accuracy is good for me under 4 meters.
I also have a lot of 9mm ammo, so fewer calibers is simpler
firespec35
New member
Go find a S&W CS9 you'll have plenty left for spare magazines and a nice holster setup
TheGuyOfSouthamerica
Moderator
Same underperforming you see for 9mm Luger according to that website.
9mm Luger tends to underperform when:
a) bullet weight is equal or less than 115 grain
b) bullet expanded (hollow Point).
http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/#380ACP
9mm Luger performs well if:
a) bullet weight is 124 grain or more
b) not expanding (FMJ or lead bullet)
380 acp underperforms when:
a) bullet weight is 95 grain or less.
b) bullet expands (hollow Point)
380 acp performs well if:
a) bullet weight is 100 grain or more (at least has to be minimal 95 grain)
b) not expanding (FMJ or lead bullet)
With both you can get good Performance just use for 9mm Luger 124 grain and not expanding bullet and for 380 acp use 100 grain and not expanding.
Specially for the 380 acp the bullet has to be an FMJ oder solid lead bullet and never you can use an hollow Point. Using hollow Points in 380 acp gives you not the Penetration you Need.
9mm Luger tends to underperform when:
a) bullet weight is equal or less than 115 grain
b) bullet expanded (hollow Point).
http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/#380ACP
9mm Luger performs well if:
a) bullet weight is 124 grain or more
b) not expanding (FMJ or lead bullet)
380 acp underperforms when:
a) bullet weight is 95 grain or less.
b) bullet expands (hollow Point)
380 acp performs well if:
a) bullet weight is 100 grain or more (at least has to be minimal 95 grain)
b) not expanding (FMJ or lead bullet)
With both you can get good Performance just use for 9mm Luger 124 grain and not expanding bullet and for 380 acp use 100 grain and not expanding.
Specially for the 380 acp the bullet has to be an FMJ oder solid lead bullet and never you can use an hollow Point. Using hollow Points in 380 acp gives you not the Penetration you Need.
TheGuyOfSouthamerica
Moderator
Yes every one has it's preferences.
I particularly hate recoil and snappy guns since I have small Hands and have Trouble of Holding it right.
An carry gun for me is an mouse gun. So, in an small package I would not eve think of Shooting an 9mm Luger. The CCW should be for me max 5" Long, max 4" high, very light and as Slim as possible (better is an Seecamp size gun). Max dimensions has the Beretta Pico but in an shootable decent caliber (380 acp). The shootability for an CCW may be an issue since the Pico is considered comfortable Shooting and the Seecamp is considered hurting the Hand (both in 380 acp). Imagine the Seecamp in 9mm Luger. It's a compromise.
An house gun should be big, heavy and have an hefty caliber (9mm Luger) like the ideal size is the Beretta 92 FS. No compromise.
I particularly hate recoil and snappy guns since I have small Hands and have Trouble of Holding it right.
An carry gun for me is an mouse gun. So, in an small package I would not eve think of Shooting an 9mm Luger. The CCW should be for me max 5" Long, max 4" high, very light and as Slim as possible (better is an Seecamp size gun). Max dimensions has the Beretta Pico but in an shootable decent caliber (380 acp). The shootability for an CCW may be an issue since the Pico is considered comfortable Shooting and the Seecamp is considered hurting the Hand (both in 380 acp). Imagine the Seecamp in 9mm Luger. It's a compromise.
An house gun should be big, heavy and have an hefty caliber (9mm Luger) like the ideal size is the Beretta 92 FS. No compromise.