help me build my dream reloading setup for a first timer

Yes you can do both rifle and pistol except for the Dillon Square Deal which only does pistol. I will admit I don;t know much about Lee or the RCBS line of progressive presses. I mean when you have never used them it is hard to say what they can or can not do well. But they have strong supporters too.

There are more than just the two talked about progressive presses on the market. That is what is great there is a lot of choices.

I know the Dillon line as well as most people. I am still learning on the LNL, I had one sold it then bought another this past year. The price was right for a used one and I had the money and need for another progressive press.

My plan is too make it my dedicated set up for 223, the reason being is that I have every other caliber set up for the Dillon and it didn't make sense to rebuild everything for the LNL when I just needed a dedicated progressive press for one rifle caliber. I load a lot of 223 and it is nice having one machine just for it.

If you are looking for bullets and very fast shipping at good prices Pm or email me and I will let you know where to go.
 
Dillon 650 - $566.95
Three two heads - $56.85
Three Caliber Conversions - $230.85

Total for all 4 calibers = $854.65

Of course the prices of the dies are not in the amount but you can use anyone's dies.

The above will gt you going with no problems, now you can add extras that will increase the price like adding the case-feed assembly, extra powder measure and much more.

You get one caliber conversion kit, tool head and powder measure with the press.
 
I have mostly Lee stuff. I don't load in huge batches so I bought a Lee classic cast. Wonderful single stage heft. I prefer precision over speed so the SS setup was suited for my work. ( I know your for progressive just sharing my thoughts) my hand tools are very diverse. Lyman rcbs hornady. my setup is slow but its very precise. All hand weighed charges and such. Again I don't shoot huge bunches...box or two on the weekends.
 
mattL46, since you mention precision work with a single stage it makes me wonder since i have heard this elsewhere. Does single stage really produce that much higher quality ammo? if so mow much? would I perhaps end up with faulty ammo using a progressive?
 
I feel the single-stage gives me more precision but it apparently just allows me to do things the way I want to. It's been proven that the 650 can load rifle ammo just as accurately as a single stage but I like doing it my way.
 
I am not sure if this has been suggested yet, but 2 presses - one for large primer and one for small primer would be really convenient.

I also think that progressive is really more useful for loading large quantities of pistol ammo.
 
Snooze I cant use small and large primers on the same loader?

You sure can, but it is one of the more annoying changes to make on a progressive press (I only have experience with Dillon presses). It is nice to be able to just pop in a tool head and switch out the shell plate and start loading. Edited to add - this is in the context of a "dream" reloading setup. Personally, I would add a single stage press before adding a second progressive.
 
Ruthless4christ said:
mattL46, since you mention precision work with a single stage it makes me wonder since i have heard this elsewhere. Does single stage really produce that much higher quality ammo? if so mow much? would I perhaps end up with faulty ammo using a progressive?
It isn't that a progressive is prone to produce faulty ammo (they aren't).

But it is true that by carefully crafting each step, one at a time and measuring at each step (powder drop, bullet seat depth, etc) and observing how much force it takes to seat each bullet (it can vary, depending on a number of factors, but you have to be REALLY anal retentive to care). I am just sayin' that it is easier to monitor each individual step with a single stage than with a progressive.

Single stages have less "play" in their assemblies than any other press type, leading to better alignment and uniformity.

And more attention to each step from the operator.

Lost Sheep
 
Don't forget to budget for these items:
  • A quality scale.
  • Tumbler
  • Akro bins (seriously, you will want a lot of these)
  • Trimmer
  • Brass prep tools (remove primer pocket crimp, chamfer/debur, and cleaning of primer pocket)
  • Calipers
  • Case guages

And, start saving plastic coffee cans now if you aren't already. If you look in the reloading bench photo thread, you will notice that these are essential equipment. :)
 
Thanks for asking our advice

I have thought of a few things I think are useful for handloaders to know or to consider which seem to be almost universally mentioned, so I put together this list of 10 advices.


Much is a matter of personal taste and circumstance, though. So, all advice carries this caveat, "your mileage may vary".


So you can better evaluate my words, here is the focus of my experience. I load for handguns (44 Mag, 45 ACP, 45 Colt, 454 Casull, 9mm, 357 Mag, 480 Ruger) a couple hundred per sitting and go through 100 to 500 centerfire rounds per month. I don't cast....yet.


When I bought my first gun (.357 Magnum Dan Wesson revolver), I bought, at the same time, a reloading setup because I knew I could not afford to shoot if I did not reload my own ammo. My setup was simple. A set of dies, a press, a 2" x 6" plank, some carriage bolts and wing nuts, a scale, two loading blocks. I just mounted the press on the plank wedged into the drawer of an end table. I did not use a loading bench at all.


It cost me about 1/4 of factory ammo per round and paid for itself pretty quickly.


I still believe in a minimalist approach and and try to keep my inventory of tools low. I do not keep my loading gear set up when not in use, either, but pack them away in small toolboxes until the next loading session.


Now, here are my Ten Advices.


Advice #1 Use Reliable Reference Sources Wisely - Books, Videos, Web Sites, etc.


Study up in loading manuals until you understand the process well, before spending a lot of (or any) money on equipment.


Read as many manuals as you can, for the discussion of the how-to steps found in their early chapters. The reason you want more than one or two manuals is that you want to read differing authors/editors writing styles and find ones that "speak" to you. What one manual covers thinly, another will cover well so give better coverage of the subject; one author or editor may cover parts of the subject more thoroughly than the others. The public library should have manuals you can read, then decide which ones you want to buy. Dated, perhaps but the basics are pretty unchanging.


I found "The ABC's of Reloading" to be a very good reference. Containing no loading data but full of knowledge and understanding of the process. I am told the older editions are better than the newer ones, so the library is looking even better.


There are instructional videos now that did not exist in the '70s when I started, but some are better than others. Filter all casual information through a "B.S." filter.


Only after you know the processing steps of loading can you look at the contents of of a dealer's shelves, a mail-order catalog or a reloading kit and know what equipment you want to buy. If you are considering a loading kit, you will be in a better position to know what parts you don't need and what parts the kits lack. If builging your own kit from scratch, you will be better able to find the parts that will serve your into the future without having to do trade-ins.


Advice #2 All equipment is good. But is it good FOR YOU?


Almost every manufacturer of loading equipment makes good stuff; if they didn't, they would lose reputation fast and disappear from the marketplace. Generally you get what you pay for and better equipment costs more. Cast aluminum is lighter and less expensive but not so abrasion resistant as cast iron. Cast iron lasts practically forever. Aluminum generally takes more cleaning and lubrication to last forever. Just think about what you buy. Ask around. Testimonials are nice. But if you think Ford/Chevy owners have brand loyalty, you have not met handloaders. Testimonials with reasoning behind them are better. RCBS equipment is almost all green, Dillon-blue, Lee-red. Almost no manufacturers cross color lines and many handloaders simply identify themselves as "Blue" or whatever. Make your own choices.


About brand loyalties, an example: Lee Precision makes good equipment, but is generally considered the "economy" equipment maker (though some of their stuff is considered preferable to more expensive makes, as Lee has been an innovator both in price leadership which has introduced many to loading who might not otherwise have been able to start the hobby and in introduction of innovative features like their auto-advancing turret presses). But there are detractors who focus on Lee's cheapest offerings to paint even their extremely strong gear as inferior. Ignore the snobs.


On Kits: Almost every manufacturer makes a kit that contains everything you need to do reloading (except dies and the consumables). A kit is decent way to get started. Eventually most people wind up replacing most of the components of the kit as their personal taste develops (negating the savings you thought the kit gave you), but you will have gotten started, at least.


On building your own kit: The thought processes you give to assembling your own kit increases your knowledge about reloading. You may get started a couple weeks later than if you started with a kit, but you will be far ahead in knowledge.


Advice #3 While Learning, don't get fancy. Progressive, turret or Single Stage? Experimental loads? Pushing performance envelopes? Don't get fancy.


While you are learning, load mid-range at first so overpressures are not concerns. Just concentrate on getting the mechanical steps of loading right and being VERY VERY consistent (charge weight, crimp strength, bullet seating depth, primer seating force, all that). Use a voluminous, "fluffy", powder that is, one that is easy to see that you have charged the case and which will overflow your cartridge case if you mistakenly put two powder charges in it.


While learning, only perform one operation at a time. Whether you do the one operation 50 (or 20) times on a batch of cases before moving on to the next operation - "Batch Processing" or take one case through all the sequence of operations between empty case to finished cartridge - "Continuous Processing", sometimes known as "Sequential Processing", learn by performing only one operation at a time and concentrating on THAT OPERATION. On a single stage press or a turret press, this is the native way of operation. On a progressive press, the native operation is to perform mulltiple operations simultaneously. Don't do it. While you can learn on a progressive press, in my opinion too many things happen at the same time, thus are hard to keep track of (unless you load singly at first). Mistakes DO happen and you want to watch for them ONE AT A TIME. Until handloading becomes second nature to you.


Note: A turret press is essentially a single stage press with a moveable head which can mount several dies at the same time. What makes it like a single stage rather than a progressive is that you are still using only one die at a time, not three or four dies simultaneously at each stroke.


On the Turret vs Single stage the decision is simpler. You can do everything on a Turret EXACTLY the same way as you do on a single stage (just leave the turret stationary). That is, a Turret IS a single stage if you don't rotate the head.


Learning on a progressive can be done successfully, but it is easier to learn to walk in shoes than on roller skates.


Also, a good, strong, single stage press is in the stable of almost every reloader I know, no matter how many progressives they have. They always keep at least one.


Advice #4 Find a mentor.


There is no substitute for someone watching you load a few cartridges and critiquing your technigue BEFORE you develop bad habits or make a dangerous mistake. (A mistake that might not have consequences right away, but maybe only after you have escaped trouble a hundred times until one day you get bit, for instance having case lube on your fingers when you handle primers; 99 times, no problem because primers are coated with a sealant, but the hundredth primer may not be perfectly sealed and now winds up "dead")


I started loading with the guy who sold me my press watching over my shoulder as I loaded my first 6 rounds to make sure I did not blow myself up, load a powderless cartridge or set off a primer in the press. I could have learned more, faster with a longer mentoring period, but I learned a lot in those first 6 rounds, as he explained each step. I educated myself after that. But now, on the internet, I have learned a WHOLE LOT MORE. But in-person is still the best.


After you have been mentored, mentor someone else. Not necessarily in loading or the shooting sports, but in SOMETHING in which you are enthusiastic and qualified. Just give back to the community.


Advice #5 Design your loading space for safety, efficiency, cleanliness


Your loading bench/room is tantamount to a factory floor. There is a whole profession devoted to industrial engineering, the art and science of production design. Your loading system (layout, process steps, quality control, safety measures, etc) deserves no less attention than that.

Place your scale where it is protected from drafts and vibration and is easy to read and operate. Place you components' supplies convenient to the hand that will place them into the operation and the receptacle(s) for interim or finished products, too. You can make a significant increase in safety and in speed, too, with well thought out design of your production layout, "A" to "Z", from the lighting to the dropcloth to the fire suppression scheme.


Advice #6 Keep Current on loading technology


Always use a CURRENT loading manual. Ballistic testing has produced some new knowledge over the years and powder chemistry has changed over the years, too. They make some powders differently than they used to and even some powder names may have changed. However, if you are using 10 year old powder, you may want to check a 10 year old manual for the recipe. Then double check with a modern manual and then triple check with the powder maker.


Read previous threads on reloading and watch videos available on the web. But be cautious. There is both good information and bad information found in casual sources, so see my advice #10.


Advice #7 You never regret buying the best (but once)


When you buy the very best, it hurts only once, in the wallet. When you buy too cheaply it hurts every time you use the gear. The trick is to buy good enough (on the scale between high quality and low price) to keep you happy without overpaying for features you don't need. "The delicious flavor of low price fades fast. The wretched aftertaste of poor quality lingers long."


Advice #8 Tungsten Carbide dies (or Titanium Nitride) rather than tool steel.

T-C dies instead of regular tool steel (which require lubrication for sizing your brass) for your straight-walled cartridge cases. T-C dies do not require lubrication, which will save you time. Carbide expander button for your bottlenecked cases. Keeps lube out of the inside of the cases.


Advice #9 Safety Always Safety All Ways.


Wear eye protection, especially when seating primers. Gloves are good, too, especially if using the Lee "Hammer" Tools. Children (unless they are good helpers, not just playing around) are at risk and are a risk. Pets, too unless they have been vetted (no, not that kind of vetting). Any distractions that might induce you to forget charging a case (no charge or a double charge, equally disturbing). Imagine everything that CAN go wrong. Then imagine everything that you CAN'T imagine. I could go on, but it's your eyes, your fingers, your house, your children (present of future - lead is a hazard, too. Wash after loading and don't eat at your bench). Enough said?


Advice #10 Take all with a grain of salt.

Verify for yourself everything you learn. Believe only half of what you see and one quarter of what you hear. That goes double for everything you find on the internet (with the possible exception of the actual web sites of the bullet and powder manufacturers). This advice applies to my message as much as anything else and especially to personal load recipes. Hare-brained reloaders might have dangerous habits and even an honest typographical error could be deadly. I heard about a powder manufacturer's web site that dropped a decimal point once. It was fixed REAL FAST, but mistakes happen. I work in accounting and can easily hit "7" instead of "4" because they are next to each other on the keypad.


Good luck.


Lost Sheep
 
In your original post, you specified that you did not want to buy the wrong stuff and then waste time and money upgrading. Good thinking.

Your description of yourself and your needs screams that you will ultimately have two presses at least. Good for you.

Almost every loader I know has a single stage press no matter what else they have. From your list of calibers, I suggest a cast iron single stage (RCBS Rockchucker, Lee Classic Cast, Hornady, Redding Big Boss or Forster Co-Ax or any equivalent). You will not regret having any of those at any time during your loading lifetime.

Once you have used a single stage and learned the steps (and the nuances) you will have enough time behind you to be discerning about your second press.

Aside from eye protection and manuals, you only need three things (physically) to load good ammo.

Press because fingers are not strong enough to form metal
Dies because fingers are not accurate enough to form metal to SAAMI specs
Scale because eyeballs are not accurate enough to measure out gunpowder

Everything else can wait until you know what you want.

Lost Sheep
p.s.
Edit, scratch that 500 dollar comment, I just say that most Progressive Presses cost at least that much, so just fire away with what you feel is the best bang for buck along with efficiency .

Lee Precision gives the most bang for the buck. Some decry the low prices as indicative of low quality, but some of Lee's stuff is extremely bargain basement (good for people with no money and unsure if they will stay with reloading) and some stuff that is high quality and really good for the money. Lee's Classic Cast Single stage is VERY good. RCBS RockChucker has a lifetime warranty (which you pay for in a higher price than Lee's comparable press) and Redding's Big Boss has great leverage and a fine finish. You decide what you want to pay for.

Lee makes the BEST (bar none) auto-indexing turret press in the world. But it may not be good for you if you really do want more than 250 rounds per hour.

Dillon and Hornady make the best progressive presses, though RCBS makes a competitive model, too. This is just my opinion.

But get a single-stage press and good balance beam scale first. They will never fail you.

Lost Sheep
 
Last edited:
Press because fingers are not strong enough to form metal
Dies because fingers are not accurate enough to form metal to SAAMI specs
Scale because eyeballs are not accurate enough to measure out gunpowde

I like this. But, what about calipers for measuring COAL, crimp, etc.?
 
snooze said:
Press because fingers are not strong enough to form metal
Dies because fingers are not accurate enough to form metal to SAAMI specs
Scale because eyeballs are not accurate enough to measure out gunpowde
I like this. But, what about calipers for measuring COAL, crimp, etc.?
snooze is online now Report Post
Another essential, but like safety glasses, possible to load safe ammo (as opposed to loading ammo safely. quite different) without.

You are quite right to point out that calipers are vital. But most components do measure out correctly. I loaded for several years without calipers with properly sized components with only a press, dies and scale. But lacking any one of those three, I could not have produced a single round. (OK, I could have used calibrated dippers to replace the scale, but didn't.:D)

Lost Sheep
 
There is NOTHING that a single stage press can do that my Dillon 550b progressive cannot. I would not buy a SS press if you are going to eventually use a progressive.

For example, I can use a push through die to eliminate bulged cases on the progressive.

Since I got the Dillon progressive, my single stage RCBS Rockcrusher has sat on my bench and has not been used.

The kits you buy today are loaded with stuff you do not need including beam scales, lube pads and other crap you may not need or want.
 
rajbcpa said:
There is NOTHING that a single stage press can do that my Dillon 550b progressive cannot. I would not buy a SS press if you are going to eventually use a progressive.
Probably true. But can your 550 do those same things AS WELL? Example: All progressive presses contain off-axis forces which will cause (very slight) misalignment which may or may not be important to a loader seeking the perfectly concentric cartridge.

Every loader has slightly different needs.
rajbcpa said:
Since I got the Dillon progressive, my single stage RCBS Rockcrusher has sat on my bench and has not been used.
May I suggest you offer it to Ruthless4christ?
rajbcpa said:
The kits you buy today are loaded with stuff you do not need including beam scales, lube pads and other crap you may not need or want
True, and also lack some things you WILL need or want. In addition, they will have stuff you do need, but not the right version, meaning the buyer will be trading in sometime in the future.

Lost Sheep
 
I also think that progressive is really more useful for loading large quantities of pistol ammo.
I think likewise. Although I bought and have used my Dillon 550b for about twenty years, I only use it for my relatively high-volume handgun loading. The RCBS Jr. that I have had for about 35 years (before that a Herter's that burned), I use for my rifle hand loading. I and most hand loaders do not need the speed of a progressive for rifle (due to relatively low cartridge count), loading. I found that even when I bought the Dillon, the RCBS Jr. was a great tool to have when I need to pull bullets, load rifle rounds and weighing each powder charge.
 
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