Help Building Mid/Long Range Rifle

Tj,

I was in the same situation as you a while back. I shoot regularly with a guy who has a heavy barrel savage of some description and it is lights out when he is on the trigger. I just dont like the round/bulky reciever of the savages so I went with the Rem 700 5R Mil-Spec in 308 (already comes with a more than adequate HS Precision stock for a newer LR shooter) and added a Vortex viper PST 6.5x24 FFP MOA. I then bought the PTG bottom metal on sale for I think $99.00 (same pattern as the Badger bottom metal and takes AI mags). Long story short, I have about $2,200 in the setup listed above and it is more accurate than I am by far.
 
savage

Here's another vote for a Savage.

If you are serious, and shoot it enough to need a new barrel, or simply want to upgrade, rebarreling is not a big deal and can be accomplished fairly simply.

To rebarrel a Rem 700, Win 70, you will need a 'smith.
 
How do you think the vortex compares in quality as opposed to like a leupold? Notice any glaring differences?

What would you guys recommend for magnification? What magnifications would be the minimum to be effective for different distances such as 400,700,1000 for example?
 
While I haven't used a high end Leupold or Vortex, I have used, and still do, the Vortex Viper and Leupold VXII and VXR. I would say they are very comparable to each other. Vortex has more models geared towards target shooting with reticles to match. Leupold has always had great glass, but I think you pay a little more nowadays for the LEUPOLD name on the side of the scopes. That being said, I'm still leaning towards a Leupold VX6 3-18x or 4-24x for my next target rifle build.

As for magnification, 3-5 on the low end and 20-24 on the high end should get you shooting whatever range you want to shoot. Mirage at distance will be the biggest factor is shooting long range. You will probably find you won't use max magnification for the really long shots due to the mirage.
 
Yeah precision shooter but I am using the Mil discount with Leupold. I am looking into either the 6.5-20 or the 8.5-25, but my issue is, if I get mildot reticle they mostly only have the m1 dial model available. If I was using 1/4 MOA dials and then mil dot reticle wouldn't that be less than ideal? I don't have a lot of experience with this, but isn't it going to be more ideal to go mil/mil? Or will it not be that big of an issue?

Also, watching a show today, and how the heck are guys using fixed 10 power scopes to shoot 6-800 yards?!
 
Also, watching a show today, and how the heck are guys using fixed 10 power scopes to shoot 6-800 yards?!
Click to expand...

It isn't unheard of to see snipers use 4x scopes out to 900 yards.

Once you snuggle up behind a Leupold Mk4 10x42 with a BDC turret matched to M118LR, and just dial in your range, make a wind call, and pull the trigger you'll feel pretty great when the iron maiden rings down range.

Of course torso sized/shaped targets are scored "hit/miss" instead of bullseye targets where the 10 ring is a half MOA like in F Class, so it's really a different game between tactical matches and any of the high power disciplines.

Hope this helps.

Jimro
 
The black bullseye on NRA long range targets 800 to 1000 yards is 44" diameter. 10 ring for prone matches is 20" and for F class, 10 inches. 10X scope reticle's are easy to center on the target and quarter a 1 MOA circle.

Use a 10X scope on something an inch in size 100 yards away and you'll understand. I had a Weaver T10 and its duplex reticle easily quartered the 1 moa, 6" X ring on 600 yard prone targets or the 10" one at 1000.
 
Last edited:
Is there a difference in view when you look at the 10x on a variable power as opposed to fixed? I have only ever had variable so I am curious.

Also, anyone have any advice on the mil dot reticle and moa dial situation?
 
Is there a difference in view when you look at the 10x on a variable power as opposed to fixed?
Click to expand...
There won't be any difference you can see under normal light

Field of view would be similar, and clarity depends on the quality of the lens

In low light conditions, a fixed power will be slightly brighter due to having fewer lenses
 
Few people can discern the 1 to 2 percent less light a variable has than a fixed power scope has when it's got the same lens group formulas as a fixed power one. Note the difference is the variable's erector lens group has two sliding lenses and the fixed power one's has only one fixed in place.

Same difference as the available light in two rooms. One lit with 100 candles and the other with 99 or 98 candles.

Modern coatings enable modern lenses to have little light loss.
 
Last edited:
So if the price is going to be the same or less to get the 6.5-20 or the 8.5-25 should I just go with those if I plan to shoot long distance as opposed to a fixed power? I mean I don't HAVE to use the higher magnifications if I don't want to correct?
 
All variables have a tiny amount of slop in their two zoom lens mounts in the tube they slide back and forth in. It's minized when power is set at either extreme. Anywhere in between lets each mount settle to a different place from each shot's recoil. 1/2 moa slop in expensive variables happens.

Put an optical collimater in the muzzle, zero the adjustments on it then zoom back and forth between limits while watching the reticle move about the collimater reference.

Shooting groups to measure the error is a waste of all things required.
 
No.

Just explaining the difference between two types of scopes.

I think the modern fixation on "I have to have a variable because that's what _____ uses to _____ better than anyone else!!!" filling in the blanks for their specific points, is more a fashionable trend than a functional one. All those marvelous feats of accuracy with a variable happen when they're hard set at maximimum power because that's the setting where they're the most repeatable. Therefore, I think a scope with zero change in optical axis from shot to shot is much better than any tiny amount. Others can justify their choice however they want.

Low to medium power variables are great for hunting purposes and short to medium ranges, but not for precision accuracy at any range when the target's stay in one place all the time. No scope has any effect on how accurate a rifle shoots ammo; only how precise the rifle can be aimed. The rifle and its ammo have no idea what's being used to shoot the bullet in some direction.

Variable scope populariaty is akin to neck only sizing fired cases. For decades, most people thought neck only sizing of bottleneck cases was the only way to get best accuracy. In spite of it being proved otherwise by those few who properly full length sized their fired cases. They typically didn't understand how a rimless bottleneck case is shaped by both resizing methods nor how it fit the chamber when fired. The hard core neck sizers, the benchrest competitors, finally learned a decade or so ago that proper full length sizing their fired cases made their largest groups get smaller. The tiny, record setting and match winning group sizes didn't change any significant amount for few-shot groups. But the aggregate groups, the average of several few-shot groups, got smaller. Overall accuracy was much better. Group size cannot get smaller than zero; the smallest few-shot ones are only a few thousandths away from that. There's no limit as to how big they are.
 
Last edited:
Gotcha! So with that being said, if you were going to equip your long range setup with a scope what would you do? Do with 10x, 16x, or a 6.5-20. All of the ones I am looking at are the mark 4 from leupold. The variable is a front focal plane reticle so supposedly you can still use the mil dot reticle to measure distance regardless of the magnification (is that correct?). If I go with the fixed, will it still be as easy to range targets with either fixed size? Will I still be able to hunt at ranges as low as 100 yards?
 
For use from 100 to 1000 yards and get accurate ranging for distant targets, I'd buy a $600 Leupold VX-3 3.5-10x50mm for aiming and a $300 Opti-Logic Insight 1000XT Laser Rangefinder No. 00407 for ranging. Use the money you save from buying a $2000+ Leupold to get an accurate rifle. You'll miss your point of aim a lot less with a medium priced scope with 1/4 MOA reticule on a sub MOA long range rifle-ammo system than a zero MOA reticle slop on a 2 MOA long range rifle-ammo system. Put your money where it matters most.

Yes, front reticules are better for ranging with variable power scopes. Scope reticule ranging systems get less accurate as distance increases and errors estimating the size of the ranging element. That's bad as bullet drop per 10 yards of range gets worse as distance increases. Laser rangefinders are very accurate. Bullet drop per 10 yards of range 800 yards away with a .308 Win. is over a foot. How accurate do you want your ranging system to be?

Scope powers over 4X are not all that great for hunting at 100 yards unless the largest game you'll shoot at is no bigger than a bulldog and they're not moving. And a 10X scope reticle can easily quarter a pie plate at 1000 yards.
 
Last edited:
Well I am using the Leupold military program so price isn't really going to be a huge issue to go up to a better scope. I know people use a 10 power fixed for longer ranges but I don't understand how you can "easily" quarter a pie plate at 1000 yards. I've seen images through a scope at different powers at 1000 and it didn't seem easy even at slightly higher magnifications.
 
I had no problem quartering a 1" X-ring on a 100 yard smallbore rifle target winning matches with a Weaver T10 scope with a duplex reticule. Nor quartering the 10" X-ring on a 1000 yard highpower rifle target winning matches with a 30 caliber magnum with that same scope.

It depends on the thickness of the recticle lines you're aiming with. But even if they're very thick, put your desired aim point on the target in a corner of their junction. You can aim to 1/10th MOA or less error with a 2 MOA wide reticle lines that way.

Go to Leupold's web site then look up their tactical scope reticle dimensions. A 10X one's fine lines are .05 mil thick and would appear about 1.8" wide at 1000 yards. Imagine two of them crossed and intersecting a 9" pie plate.
 
Last edited:
Gotcha! Now I am torn. I was dead set on the 6.5-20 variable, now I can't decide between that and a 10 or 16 fixed power!!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top