Hello, I want to start off by saying that I am a decent rifle shooter now and have started to shoot progressively more in the past year. I am by no means an expert. I am interested in building a rifle to shoot and improve my skills over time and possibly shoot some competitions. I would like to be able to reach out as far as my skills will allow with practice, but I obviously understand I am not going to be making mile long shots. What would you guys suggest as far as stock, action, caliber, scope, magnification level for the scope at different ranges, barrel, and/or anything else? I am trying to keep this around 2000-2500 dollars total with scope, and I had been told previously to go with a mcmillan stock I'd like some opinions on that as well. I am a big leupold fan as well.
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Help Building Mid/Long Range Rifle
- Thread starter Thejunk07
- Start date
Remington 700 Police in .308 Win. Top it off with a Vortex Viper PST 6-24x. If you haven't already go ahead and spend the money on a good single stage press/reloading gear and components.
After you've burned your barrel out working up a good load and learning how to read the wind and deal with mirage you can upgrade to a custom barrel. Brux, Rock Creek, Bartlien, Krieger are all good barrel makers. I'm partial to the single-point cut rifling myself. While the barrel is off send the action out to get trued and replace the recoil lug and trigger, bed the action too.
Or at least that's where I'd start if I was to start all over again.
After you've burned your barrel out working up a good load and learning how to read the wind and deal with mirage you can upgrade to a custom barrel. Brux, Rock Creek, Bartlien, Krieger are all good barrel makers. I'm partial to the single-point cut rifling myself. While the barrel is off send the action out to get trued and replace the recoil lug and trigger, bed the action too.
Or at least that's where I'd start if I was to start all over again.
I think that is probably some of the best advice you will ever get.Remington 700 Police in .308 Win. Top it off with a Vortex Viper PST 6-24x. If you haven't already go ahead and spend the money on a good single stage press/reloading gear and components.
There's other threads in this forum about such a rifle. Check them out.
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=557428
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=556684
Few commercial factory rifles have a good track record in bullseye target competition. You don't need to spend more money on a scope than you do for a rifle; there's a few costing under $500 that are excellent. Based on what the competitive shooters on this forum know, Savage rifles are probably the best choice for a new, commercial rifle.
Custom rifles are better but most smiths want to do more stuff with an action than is needed. McMillan stocks are great as are Kreiger barrels. I'd get a fixed power scope of 16 to 25 power; they're more repeatable than variables. Winchester 70 actions have the best track record for reliability and accuracy across all competitive disciplines with commercial rifle actions; they're near three times as stiff as a Remington 700 action. Properly used, they'll shoot bullets just as accurate as very expensive single shot custom actions. The best custom rrepeating rifles are bolt action tube guns but they're expensive.
Considering all the issues with cartridges and all the compromises one has to make choosing one, the one that gives long barrel life, excellent accuracy, usability in all types of competition, ease of reloading, availability of good components and reloading tools, the .308 Winchester is best. A Kreiger 'tight' 26" 4 groove barrel with a 1:12 twist, .3075" groove and .298" bore will handle 168 to 190 grain bullets with excellent accuracy to 1000 yards.
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=557428
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=556684
Few commercial factory rifles have a good track record in bullseye target competition. You don't need to spend more money on a scope than you do for a rifle; there's a few costing under $500 that are excellent. Based on what the competitive shooters on this forum know, Savage rifles are probably the best choice for a new, commercial rifle.
Custom rifles are better but most smiths want to do more stuff with an action than is needed. McMillan stocks are great as are Kreiger barrels. I'd get a fixed power scope of 16 to 25 power; they're more repeatable than variables. Winchester 70 actions have the best track record for reliability and accuracy across all competitive disciplines with commercial rifle actions; they're near three times as stiff as a Remington 700 action. Properly used, they'll shoot bullets just as accurate as very expensive single shot custom actions. The best custom rrepeating rifles are bolt action tube guns but they're expensive.
Considering all the issues with cartridges and all the compromises one has to make choosing one, the one that gives long barrel life, excellent accuracy, usability in all types of competition, ease of reloading, availability of good components and reloading tools, the .308 Winchester is best. A Kreiger 'tight' 26" 4 groove barrel with a 1:12 twist, .3075" groove and .298" bore will handle 168 to 190 grain bullets with excellent accuracy to 1000 yards.
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Building a precision rifle on a budget is probably not the way to go, you'll find yourself making to many compromises. I'd buy an off the shelf rifle and make improvements to it as funds become available. Remington and Savage both have lots of after market parts available, Howa and Tikka are also gaining popularity.
You'll get a lot of different opinions on what chambering to get but I'd stick with the .308 Winchester. There is a lot of good ammunition available and it is reasonably priced.
As for optics get at least 10X and buy the best you can afford. The Vortex PST mentioned above is a decent scope, I got one a few months ago and I like it for it's price point. You being a Leupold fan I would look at their Mark 4 line, I've read very good stuff about them. Like I said buy the best you can afford, optics can easily be moved from rifle to rifle so it is an investment that you can own the rest of your life.
You'll get a lot of different opinions on what chambering to get but I'd stick with the .308 Winchester. There is a lot of good ammunition available and it is reasonably priced.
As for optics get at least 10X and buy the best you can afford. The Vortex PST mentioned above is a decent scope, I got one a few months ago and I like it for it's price point. You being a Leupold fan I would look at their Mark 4 line, I've read very good stuff about them. Like I said buy the best you can afford, optics can easily be moved from rifle to rifle so it is an investment that you can own the rest of your life.
precision_shooter
New member
My next "build" will probably go something like below.
Savage 10 in .308
Replace barrel to 6.5x47 Lapua, 6x47 Lapua, or 6.5 Creedmoor. Still doing research on these calibers to make my final decision.
Stock: McMillan, HS Precision, Manners etc. Have to research them all and go bang for buck.
Scope: Vortex Viper PST 6-24x or Leupold VX-6 4-24x. Leaning Leupold here, but given the cost difference might end up with the Vortex. I have a Viper 6.5-20x on my current .308 target rifle.
Bipod - Would like an Atlas, but because of cost, may end up with another Harris BR model.
Savage 10 in .308
Replace barrel to 6.5x47 Lapua, 6x47 Lapua, or 6.5 Creedmoor. Still doing research on these calibers to make my final decision.
Stock: McMillan, HS Precision, Manners etc. Have to research them all and go bang for buck.
Scope: Vortex Viper PST 6-24x or Leupold VX-6 4-24x. Leaning Leupold here, but given the cost difference might end up with the Vortex. I have a Viper 6.5-20x on my current .308 target rifle.
Bipod - Would like an Atlas, but because of cost, may end up with another Harris BR model.
precision_shooter
New member
Depending on what rifle you get,
Trigger upgrade $150-$500 (Love my Accutriggers that come on Savage rifles. Remington will require a trigger upgrade)
Re-Barrel $200-$1000 (Won't be needed to practice. Will be needed to wring out the most accuracy or when factory barrel is shot out)
Bottom Metal/Mags if desired $250 for bottom metal, $100 each for AI mags
BiPod $40-$300 - Harris is a good place to start
Scope Base - $50
Scope Rings - $50-$150
Muzzle Brake - This is preference, but I love the brake on my .308. Other shooters next to me, not so much...$50-$200
Ammo, buy or reload. Cheaper to load your own.
Range Fees to get a good amount of trigger time
Trigger upgrade $150-$500 (Love my Accutriggers that come on Savage rifles. Remington will require a trigger upgrade)
Re-Barrel $200-$1000 (Won't be needed to practice. Will be needed to wring out the most accuracy or when factory barrel is shot out)
Bottom Metal/Mags if desired $250 for bottom metal, $100 each for AI mags
BiPod $40-$300 - Harris is a good place to start
Scope Base - $50
Scope Rings - $50-$150
Muzzle Brake - This is preference, but I love the brake on my .308. Other shooters next to me, not so much...$50-$200
Ammo, buy or reload. Cheaper to load your own.
Range Fees to get a good amount of trigger time
precision_shooter
New member
I would start with buying a complete rifle.
My preference is for the Savage 10/110 model with heavy barrel in you choice of length, 18"-26"...
Some will recommend Remington 700 configured the same as above.
I've seen more Remingtons require upgrades straight out of the box to shoot to their potential than I have Savages. So I stick with Savage and haven't been let down.
Savage has the better trigger, Remington trigger will need to be replaced.
Buying the rifle will allow you to shoot now and upgrade as you go.
My preference is for the Savage 10/110 model with heavy barrel in you choice of length, 18"-26"...
Some will recommend Remington 700 configured the same as above.
I've seen more Remingtons require upgrades straight out of the box to shoot to their potential than I have Savages. So I stick with Savage and haven't been let down.
Savage has the better trigger, Remington trigger will need to be replaced.
Buying the rifle will allow you to shoot now and upgrade as you go.
With all due respect to you I will probably go with a r700 because I've had good experience with them. I do appreciate all your great advice though. But with the rifle there is obviously a difference in quality between like a r700 wood stock bdl and the sps. Should I be going with the wood barreled rifle to start because of the action/barrel or what?
Also, what would be a good order to go in, rifle, scope, trigger, stock, then by then have enough time with the barrel to switch it out... Or what?
Also, what would be a good order to go in, rifle, scope, trigger, stock, then by then have enough time with the barrel to switch it out... Or what?
precision_shooter
New member
No offense taken...
Typically, you won't find a wood stocked heavy barrel rifle.
Most of the heavy barrel rifles will have synthetic stocks in some form or fashion.
The R700 action is an R700 action. ADL, BDL, CDL all use the same 700 action. The BDL and CDL may be more refined so they operate smoother or have a better finish, but they are all structurally the same.
I would look for an SPS/SPS Varmint 700 with heavy profile barrel.
Get scope base, rings, and scope first.
This will get you shooting.
Get a bipod if you want or use sand bags/other type of rest.
See how it shoots in stock trim. Then decide if you want to do the stock or trigger first. If it's accurate but you feel the heavier stock trigger is holding you back on getting better groups, do the trigger. If it's not shooting well, and you can live with the trigger as is, get the stock.
You should be able to get 4,000 rounds, give or take, out of the factory barrel before it NEEDS to be replaced. So I would do barrel last, unless the other mods are still not producing the small groups/accuracy that you want.
Typically, you won't find a wood stocked heavy barrel rifle.
Most of the heavy barrel rifles will have synthetic stocks in some form or fashion.
The R700 action is an R700 action. ADL, BDL, CDL all use the same 700 action. The BDL and CDL may be more refined so they operate smoother or have a better finish, but they are all structurally the same.
I would look for an SPS/SPS Varmint 700 with heavy profile barrel.
Get scope base, rings, and scope first.
This will get you shooting.
Get a bipod if you want or use sand bags/other type of rest.
See how it shoots in stock trim. Then decide if you want to do the stock or trigger first. If it's accurate but you feel the heavier stock trigger is holding you back on getting better groups, do the trigger. If it's not shooting well, and you can live with the trigger as is, get the stock.
You should be able to get 4,000 rounds, give or take, out of the factory barrel before it NEEDS to be replaced. So I would do barrel last, unless the other mods are still not producing the small groups/accuracy that you want.
I just don't understand why people insist you have to dump several thousands of dollars to build a precision rifle.
They seem to be trying to gimmick their want to good shooting instead of concentrating on fundamentals.
Keep an eye on the CMP Auction site. You can pick up some good buys.
For example, I got a Model 70 Target Rifle in 308 built by the AMU for $600.
And a Model 70 target 300 WM, barreled action. For $500. It was missing a safety. $15 fix, plus a stock.
There have been a lot others I didn't get or didn't bid on.
Hard to find fault with AMU rifles considering they are the best shooters in the world.
They seem to be trying to gimmick their want to good shooting instead of concentrating on fundamentals.
Keep an eye on the CMP Auction site. You can pick up some good buys.
For example, I got a Model 70 Target Rifle in 308 built by the AMU for $600.
And a Model 70 target 300 WM, barreled action. For $500. It was missing a safety. $15 fix, plus a stock.
There have been a lot others I didn't get or didn't bid on.
Hard to find fault with AMU rifles considering they are the best shooters in the world.
Precision shooter, I don't know what it is, but my action on my 700BDL is not the same as my buddy who just bought the ADL or the 450 dollar rem 700 complete rifle from walmart. The action seems like its made out of like, not plastic, but it feels like a synthetic. That can't be the same accuracy wise is it?
I think the SPS varmint looks like a really good possibility, so when it comes time to do the barrel, how much is a good quality barrel and how much is that work to get done?
Kraigwy, I honestly have never used the CMP so I just prefer to do it this way I guess. I mean if I am going to be getting the rifle to start for around 600 anyway what is the difference?
I think the SPS varmint looks like a really good possibility, so when it comes time to do the barrel, how much is a good quality barrel and how much is that work to get done?
Kraigwy, I honestly have never used the CMP so I just prefer to do it this way I guess. I mean if I am going to be getting the rifle to start for around 600 anyway what is the difference?
precision_shooter
New member
It's the same action, if they are all 700's and a 770 isn't thrown in there.
I bet it's the coating like I mentioned before. Your BDL has a nice blued or stainless finish. The ADL is coated with cerakote or something similar. Cheaper that way, but they are the same action underneath the coating.
I bet it's the coating like I mentioned before. Your BDL has a nice blued or stainless finish. The ADL is coated with cerakote or something similar. Cheaper that way, but they are the same action underneath the coating.
I would like to find a heavy barrel Model 70 in 308 with an HS Precsion stock that has an awesome trigger out of the box for around $900.00. If I could find such a rifle I would probably buy it. If it consistently shot 1/2 inch groups at 200 yards, that would be awesome.
That is what the Savage does. I have no complaints about it except for it has a rough bore. It shoots quite good. I have nothing against inexpensive optics either, I have a few. Having a few inexpensive ones, and several not so inexpensive ones, my experience tells me that this is definitely an area where you get what you pay for holds true in most cases.
I think you should get the best stuff that you can afford, if that's what you want to do. If you can do it without your other obligations suffering as a result, buy it and feel good about it. You cant really go wrong with the Remington 700 Police, or Sendero, or Remington 700 5R, or Savage 10FCP.
The Savage you can get with a McMillan or HS Precision stock.
You will find it nigh impossible to find a SIMILAR NEW IN THE BOX Winchester for the same price. You can get a similar FN bolt rifle if you have over $2,000.00 to drop on it.
That is what the Savage does. I have no complaints about it except for it has a rough bore. It shoots quite good. I have nothing against inexpensive optics either, I have a few. Having a few inexpensive ones, and several not so inexpensive ones, my experience tells me that this is definitely an area where you get what you pay for holds true in most cases.
I think you should get the best stuff that you can afford, if that's what you want to do. If you can do it without your other obligations suffering as a result, buy it and feel good about it. You cant really go wrong with the Remington 700 Police, or Sendero, or Remington 700 5R, or Savage 10FCP.
The Savage you can get with a McMillan or HS Precision stock.
You will find it nigh impossible to find a SIMILAR NEW IN THE BOX Winchester for the same price. You can get a similar FN bolt rifle if you have over $2,000.00 to drop on it.
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Precision shooter, yeah maybe that is it. But since that is cheaper is it going to be less accurate necessarily? Is that what the varmint is like or is it the same finish as like the bdl?
Also, why does everyone hate on the remington trigger so much, I dont think its that bad?
Also, why does everyone hate on the remington trigger so much, I dont think its that bad?
precision_shooter
New member
The action is the same steel under the coating. It will be capable of the same accuracy regardless if it's blued, cerakote, duracoat, or latex paint.
As far as the trigger goes, it's not that the 700 triggers are bad, but there are a lot of triggers that are much better. If you haven't fired a Savage with Accutrigger, or Tikka/Sako with their factory trigger, then it's hard to tell how the remington trigger is not as good.
For shooting small groups, you want a lighter weight trigger, with no creep/take up, and a predictable breaking point. Remington triggers just fall short...
As far as the trigger goes, it's not that the 700 triggers are bad, but there are a lot of triggers that are much better. If you haven't fired a Savage with Accutrigger, or Tikka/Sako with their factory trigger, then it's hard to tell how the remington trigger is not as good.
For shooting small groups, you want a lighter weight trigger, with no creep/take up, and a predictable breaking point. Remington triggers just fall short...