Held at gunpoint, what to do?

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Alex Johnson

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It’s 12:30 a.m. in a Midwestern city. You and your beautiful girlfriend, Carla, have just finished a very intimate dinner at fine restaurant. The meal ended quite abruptly when Carla, mentioned that she wanted you to take her home and you knew from that look in her eyes, she didn’t want you to leave either. Hurriedly you paid the bill and left the waiter a nice tip and together, you head out into the night. The November winds are cold, you can feel them bite through the insulated coat you have on. Carla snuggles up against your shoulder, to avoid the chill, as you walk back to the car. You remember with some annoyance that you had to park a couple of blocks from the restaurant when, four hours earlier, you couldn’t find a parking spot nearby. The neighborhood that your are walking through isn’t all that good, but you know that your not that far from the car anymore. Finally you arrive at the lot where you left the car, a quick look around seems to assure you that nobody is around. Carla says something and you divert your attention to her for a moment and when you look up two rather dangerous looking young men are standing between you and the car. They both look drugged to the gills and one of them is pointing an inexpensive auto pistol at you. His companion is not noticeably armed, but his hand is in his pocket. The thug with the gun tells you to hand over your wallet; as while as, your girlfriends purse. You notice with some alarm that his friend is giving some dangerous looks at Carla, acting something like a little kid staring at a display of candy. Carla is still holding onto your right arm, but your hand is in your right coat pocket in which you have a pocket holster containing a Kel-tec P32 (you had transferred it to your coat pocket when you left the restaurant). Suddenly your scared, not so much for your own life, but for that of Carla. A quick look around verifies that there is nobody to help you, and no good cover to push Carla behind should you decide to go for your gun. Any shooting is likely to expose her to the gunfire. Should you go for the gun and risk getting shot, or even worse risk getting Carla hurt, or should you hope for the best and give them the wallet and the purse? Suddenly you aren’t so confident about the little 32 as you were when you originally bought it, you feel damm sorry that you left the Kimber Ultra Carry at home because it was too inconvenient to wear with a suit.
 
Well, pulling my gun will get me shot for sure.

My best bet might be to close the distance to the man with the gun. I'd probably try to give him the money and get closer. Once his attention is diverted even for a second, I'd go for the gun, his arm, wrist, etc. It's dicey AT BEST, but I have to go under the assumption that he'd kill us anyway, and one of them already has plans for Carla. The seclusion of the area gives them enough safety to do whatever they want. We're in deep sheep, but going down without a fight is NOT an option.

Then again, if my fiance' finds out that I'm out with Carla, I'm dead anyway. You should see her throw an axe.
 
I'd negotiate. I'd keep my wallet and give 'em Carla for taking four hours to eat.
Either that or I'd go for my gun and devil take the hind most. I figure as soon as my wife learns about Carla and me being out 'til 12:30 in the morning she's gonna kill us both any way. ;)


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Gunslinger

TFL End of Summer Meet, August 12th & 13th, 2000
 
What are you doing in the bad section of town at midnight? Poor judgement on your part, no matter how much she sweet talks you to go there.




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johnnyb
A slow hit beats a fast miss.
 
Greetings; As for me, I am not going to be
armed with a Keltec P-32 anyway!!! :) How
about a Sig P220 in .45ACP?

Step 1: Divert the thug's attention away from
Carla.

Step 2: Watch the thug's eyes; as most likely
with the possibly of them being under
the influence of drugs, the eyes will
wonder.

Step 3: Once the eyes lose contact with you,
go for the presentation of your gun.

Step 4: Commence shooting suspect #1, the
thug with the gun drawn. Fire two
well placed shot's into his torso;
then commence firing on suspect #2,
if he is still on the scene.

Step 5: Shove Carla into the security of your
vechile; in case follow up shot's are
necessary.

Footnote: And hope that both suspects sucumb
to their wounds. After the situation is under
control, notify the proper authorities.

More than likely, Carla isn't going to want
to be alone!!! :D So, now what do you do?
#1) leave her at her residence, #2) put the
two of you up in a motel (since you saved
your wallet and *ss), or #3) carry Carla home
and tell your wife that you brought in a new
dishwasher? :eek:

That's How I See It,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member
 
What if you just threw your wallet down and you and Carla ran? It's not heroic, but I'm thinking (my knowlege is virtually nonexistant) it might be the smart thing to do.

The wallet might distract them, and I think there's a good chance they wouldn't shoot at you- and if they did, they are probably bad shots. Trying to draw a gun and fire faster than someone can press a trigger seems to be very risky.

[This message has been edited by BTR (edited April 27, 2000).]
 
Putting the girl behind me, I would say: "Here, take my wallet." And I would draw my K9 (no Kel-tec, sorry) and shoot the gunman in the tip of his nose. Then I would shoot the other one in the tip of his nose. I would police up my brass. Then I would take Carla home. --slabsides

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If they take our guns, I intend to let my hair grow long and acquire the jawbone of an ass.
 
Same city, same scenario.....


.....look over gun-holder's shoulder to divert his attention, pull gun while getting your body between BG's and girl, shouting at top of lungs for girl to drop, start moving your body to right and go to kneeling, shoot gun-holding BG at least a hole (pun) bunch, and then drop on other BG to see if he requires ventilation.....

.....or why I gave up ankle carry forever (except for third gun).


--------------------------------------------

"all my terror is factory terror"
 
Should add that my "Carla" carries, too...


---------------------------------------------

"all my backup is female backup"
 
If bad guy #1 has gun in right hand, I would throw my "dummy money clip" to his right thus getting him to spin his body away from mine. Then yell for Carla to get behind me, draw my G30(sorry no Kel-Tec for me), and ventilate b.g. #1 then see if b.g. #2 needs same treatment. If b.g #2 has run from scene, look around for witnesses. If none, pick up brass, and take Carla home before the police show up and my wife finds out I'm 1000 miles from Texas with some girl named Carla.
 
Interesting responses. When I wrote this up I intended it to be a situation involving some poor decisions on the part of the man and women involved. They both were in a bad section of town late at night, not a good idea to those who like to avoid trouble. At least one of them was acting more on hormones than common when they were walking back to the car and he wasn't as aware as he should have been. As to the use of the Kel-Tec 32, I think a lot of people stick similar guns in their pockets for convenience without really thinking they may be put into a situation where they have to actually use them. In a situation like this you would want the absolute most stopping power to be had on the first shot, if you choose to go for your gun. After putting down all these mistakes, I'm sorry to say I've probably commited most of them at least a few times, thankfully nothing like this has ever happend to me. I would have to say that I agree with one of the responses that says to give the wallet and purse up and flee the scene. It sure as hell isn't brave, but it may be the best recourse. Of course, if the situation changed I would probably agree with the idea of getting myself between the BG with the gun, and the girl. At least here I'm probably going to be the only one shot (except for the BG's whom I would plan to ventelate) and I'd do my best to make sure that if everything else went to hell, at least Carla would walk away from the event.
 
I do BTR. I would rather not kill someone over property if I don't have too. Only if retreat is not possible would I shoot the BGs.
 
OK ... now, tell us more about Carla. ;)

All kidding aside, I would think the safer thing for Carla (if you chose to draw and fire), would be to slowly step to one side so that the BG would be directing his fire towards you and not towards Carla. I recognize it would be easy for a stray bullet to still find her, but stepping in front of her seems very risky. I would less confidence that I would well shield her from any bullet headed our way.

Another concern I would have in this specific situation is the caliber in my sidearm, and the likely heavy winter clothing worn by my adversaries. I've heard too many stories of winter coats providing surprising protection to small caliber rounds. So, my vote would be to toss the wallet (or money clip) and run as well.

[This message has been edited by Jeff Thomas (edited April 27, 2000).]
 
I would tell the girlfriend to run. Then draw the P32 (I own one of those and know their range limitation but also practice a lot) and hope that longish range would favor my training. Fire off the eight rounds and run. If any return fire happens I'd hope it would not hit accurately enough to incapacitate and the girlfriend ought to be out of range by the time the perp can pay attention to her.

Don't inend to cooperate with nutcases and certainly won't close the range for them...distance favors the trained hand. In such a case I basically assuem that perp's sanity is the only thing that keeps me from being shot and I have scant trust in that warranty. Hope that perp #2 wouldn't be able to react before I can tap #1 at least once (if #1 goes down #2 gets what's left in the magazine). Run instead of trying to get the reload.

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Oleg "cornered rat" Volk (JPFO,NRA)

http://dd-b.net/RKBA

[This message has been edited by Oleg Volk (edited April 27, 2000).]
 
I own a P-32, and even though I carry the gun daily at work, any other time I have a .45. I definately would NOT go downtown with the P-32 at night, especially if I were wearing heavy clothing (the buttons on the suitcoat could be left unbuttoned, so as not to disclose the .45 under my coat). Besides, wearing a suit at night will tip off most people that you have a little money...which means that I would DEFINATELY be carrying the .45. Now, back to the real story...I was stupid, 'cause I'm 1. cheating on my wife, 2. not paying attention, and 3 not packing enough heat. My options are:
1: Throw them the wallet and shove carla at them while running away shrieking like a schoolgirl. (now this might actually work, but it's not very chivalrous). Or
2: Step in front of Carla, pull out the P-32 holster and all...act like you're changing hands with your "wallet" (the holster) and hand the gun holder the "wallet". As he's grabbing the "wallet," you give him a facefull of .32 ACPs, and give his accomplice a few if he's attacking.
The problem I have with grappling with the gun holder, is as soon as both your hands are tied up with him, his buddy is going to pummel you...at the least, and more likely put a blade in your side. I'd never get into a fistfight with two guys at the same time. Real situations like this aren't like they are in martial arts studios, where you may fight three guys, but they come one after another, not at the same time, where you're recieving a punch to the ribs when you're trying to hit the other guy in the head. Anyway, option 2 is my choice.
 
You guys are missing the obvious. You and Carla are all dressed up. That means, you have dress shoes on. Chances are, Carla is wearing heels. I run pretty damn fast but not with dress shoes. You're asking for a couple bullets in the back.

For starters, I don't pack anything less than my Kahr MK9 with night sights. 90% of the time, especially in the winter, I'm packing a full size 1911.

Since is dark, I would take Carla's purse and give it to the BG. Then act like I'm reaching for my wallet and cap the SOB.

In the same scenerio, while I was in the rangers, they taught us how to be proficient with a knife in close quarter combat. Unfortunately, my CCW does not allow me to carry a 6" blade.

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ArmySon
1911 Addiction
1911 Forums
"Rangers Lead the Way!"
 
I'm STILL with BTR. If you start tossing money and maybe your watch at the BG's while yelling at Carla to run, do you have a chance of diverting their attention from her? And if so, that's almost as good. They have the drop on you anyway.

That said, I would feel confident in waiting to see if we could survive without a gunfight 'cause I don't care much about the wallet and, as someone else pointed out, MY beautiful girlfriend is armed, though only with a knife. He can't rape her while holding a weapon on her outside knife range.
 
I would not normally use lethal force in a property crime, but in this situation you are just too vulnerable to rely on any honor among the robbers. That said, first off I would NOT be carrying a 32. A absolute minimum of a 38, and more likely a 45 Officers or Commander. Son's senario makes sense. Give them something to look at besides your girl, like a throw down clip of money, your wallet, or her purse. While they are looking at the loot your swift action will be faster than their reaction. Shove Carla out of the line of fire and shoot the SOB...a lot! I have a friend who used a Walther PPK .380 against a shotgun toting armed robber. He told me that when you need it "you want the biggest damn gun in the world"!

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Get your 1911s and AR15s while you still can!

[This message has been edited by Watch-Six (edited April 27, 2000).]
 
Hi, Alex,

If you are going to write many scenarios about gun fights, how about learning to spell first. It's almost as tough as learning about Kel-Tec's but it will pay off better.

Jim
 
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