4INCHSMITH
New member
Wow, I always thought my 30-30 was louder than my .357. Useful info, thank you, I think I'm going to get some muffs to go with my plugs now.
Hearing protection vs. hearing damage
- Thread starter PinnedAndRecessed
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GlockJockey
New member
Glad to see this one re-emerging again, it's a great topic to which we should all pay more attention.
I've been diagnosed with Tinnitus, the constant ringing in the ears (will somebody get that 'phone!) but a while ago I sat down with a gentleman who has a doctorate in acoustical engineering here Down Under, and learned something interesting about electronic 'muffs.
Short version - don't wear them on an indoor range.
Why? The way this gent explained it to me - and I gotta say that I lack a background in maths and physics that would explain it - is that with regular earmuffs, they've got lots of padding / insulation in them to help reduce sound. With the electronic ones, you take a lot of that insulation out, and replace it with batteries, speakers, microphones, wires....all of which conduct sound to some degree.
On an outdoor range, it's not as noticeable - the sound has plenty of space to escape to; but on an indoor range, the reverberations may exceed the parameters of what the electronics can do.
Thoughts people??
I've been diagnosed with Tinnitus, the constant ringing in the ears (will somebody get that 'phone!) but a while ago I sat down with a gentleman who has a doctorate in acoustical engineering here Down Under, and learned something interesting about electronic 'muffs.
Short version - don't wear them on an indoor range.
Why? The way this gent explained it to me - and I gotta say that I lack a background in maths and physics that would explain it - is that with regular earmuffs, they've got lots of padding / insulation in them to help reduce sound. With the electronic ones, you take a lot of that insulation out, and replace it with batteries, speakers, microphones, wires....all of which conduct sound to some degree.
On an outdoor range, it's not as noticeable - the sound has plenty of space to escape to; but on an indoor range, the reverberations may exceed the parameters of what the electronics can do.
Thoughts people??
He's right in that the best non-electronic muffs typically have better NRR ratings than the best electronic muffs.
The NRR rating tells the story, there's nothing hidden in terms of how well a given set of muffs (electronic or passive) reduces the noise exposure to the ear.
Some folks will double up on hearing protection (muffs & plugs) when shooting indoors or when shooting firearms with muzzle brakes/compensators. If you're using electronic muffs, you can turn up the volume which will help you hear a bit better than if you are using plugs alone when the sound is not dangerously loud. Then, when the electronics cut off in response to a loud noise you get the benefit of plugs AND muffs. Although you can't simply add the NRR ratings of the plugs & the muffs to get the actual NRR, the combination is better than you could get with any muffs or any plugs used by themselves.
The NRR rating tells the story, there's nothing hidden in terms of how well a given set of muffs (electronic or passive) reduces the noise exposure to the ear.
Some folks will double up on hearing protection (muffs & plugs) when shooting indoors or when shooting firearms with muzzle brakes/compensators. If you're using electronic muffs, you can turn up the volume which will help you hear a bit better than if you are using plugs alone when the sound is not dangerously loud. Then, when the electronics cut off in response to a loud noise you get the benefit of plugs AND muffs. Although you can't simply add the NRR ratings of the plugs & the muffs to get the actual NRR, the combination is better than you could get with any muffs or any plugs used by themselves.
GlockJockey
New member
That comment about doubling up is pretty much spot on from what I've been told. All of our instructors here are required to do this, but of course there's always a few who are too tough to do that.....
I was interested to learn from the gent that the wearing of a ballistic helmet makes very little difference to the level of noise reaching the ear. 3 dB or 4 dB at best, even with plugs. It comes back to the induction of the sound through body cavities again.
I was interested to learn from the gent that the wearing of a ballistic helmet makes very little difference to the level of noise reaching the ear. 3 dB or 4 dB at best, even with plugs. It comes back to the induction of the sound through body cavities again.
Stevie-Ray
New member
Yessir. I've talked to people that use them in the indoor ranges. The idea is to use the best plug for you, as we all know that we prefer different plugs. Then the E-muffs will amplify the talking that you may want to hear and shut off the high db impulse noises like gunshots. Seems to work for the ones I talk to. I personally want mine for in the house when I want to hear a pin drop, but don't want to be deafened by the possible report of my own weapon. Whether I try them in the indoor range or not is still up in the air. After all, I don't talk to too many people there.
Latex Ducky
New member
What happens when your hearing goes away and comes back?
I was shooting a .30-06 rifle a while ago and the recoil of the gun pushed my ear muff off and I couldn't hear for awhile but it seems to have returned to normal
I was shooting a .30-06 rifle a while ago and the recoil of the gun pushed my ear muff off and I couldn't hear for awhile but it seems to have returned to normal
Good idea to bump this one, you can NEVER stress enough the importance of hearing protection. I'm 35yrs old and already have permanent hearing damage. I can't sleep at night unless there is some ambient noise to drown out the tinnitus. While I've always used protection at the range, I did a lot of small game hunting and shotgunning in my younger years without protection and now I'm paying for it.
For anyone reading this thread that believes that you don't need hearing protection while shooting rimfires, YOU ARE WRONG! Especially with the rimfire magnums and .22LR pistols. Unless you're shooting CB's out of a long barrel.....
ALWAYS USE HEARING PROTECTION!!!!!!!!!
For anyone reading this thread that believes that you don't need hearing protection while shooting rimfires, YOU ARE WRONG! Especially with the rimfire magnums and .22LR pistols. Unless you're shooting CB's out of a long barrel.....
ALWAYS USE HEARING PROTECTION!!!!!!!!!
FireForged
New member
This is exactly what my thoughts are... I have never had anyone explain this (only 3db increase with dual barrier)
I beleive it is called a temporary threshold shift. I am not a Dr so you may want to research TTS and see if that is what you are talking about.
This explains why plugs and muffs are not additive:
http://www.audiologyonline.com/Articles/pf_article_detail.asp?article_id=296
http://www.audiologyonline.com/Articles/pf_article_detail.asp?article_id=296
Here are the web sites I spoke of. Double up when you can.
http://www.e-a-r.com/hearingconservation/
and the above use the F&Q for lots more info
http://www.e-a-r.com/pdf/hearingcons/FAQdualHPD.pdf
http://www.e-a-r.com/hearingconservation/
and the above use the F&Q for lots more info
http://www.e-a-r.com/pdf/hearingcons/FAQdualHPD.pdf
GlockJockey
New member
I've gotta say that it's been great to read the well informed responses to this thread and see the debate, particularly on a topic that is so important to us all.
poor mans noise reduction
Glenjokey posted (someday I'll figure how to capture a quote):
"I've heard (no pun intended) that regardless of a combination of ear muffs and plugs, you get a maximum sound reduction of between 35 dB to 40 dB, notwithstanding numbers already mentioned. The rest comes from something called Induction. This refers to the sound that enters through the body cavities. THrough the skull itself, through the hollow parts of the throat (even when your mouth is closed), through reverberation from the chest cavity.....you get the idea."
I've read to the contrary and I'll try to find the source, but if you open your mouth when shooting it actually reduces the sound impact on your ears. I do it, while still using earplugs, and it does feels more comfortable. I would guess in this case it actually allows the 'inducted' sound out of your skull vs in. try it, what have you got to lose.
blindness separates us from the world, deafness separates us from people.
Glenjokey posted (someday I'll figure how to capture a quote):
"I've heard (no pun intended) that regardless of a combination of ear muffs and plugs, you get a maximum sound reduction of between 35 dB to 40 dB, notwithstanding numbers already mentioned. The rest comes from something called Induction. This refers to the sound that enters through the body cavities. THrough the skull itself, through the hollow parts of the throat (even when your mouth is closed), through reverberation from the chest cavity.....you get the idea."
I've read to the contrary and I'll try to find the source, but if you open your mouth when shooting it actually reduces the sound impact on your ears. I do it, while still using earplugs, and it does feels more comfortable. I would guess in this case it actually allows the 'inducted' sound out of your skull vs in. try it, what have you got to lose.
blindness separates us from the world, deafness separates us from people.
Tucker 1371
New member
Never knew that, I think I kind of subconsciously let my mouth open when I'm shooting, I guess I feel a little more relaxed that way.
I always just use plugs and I think I do fine, most muffs screw up my cheek weld. I used to shoot without them until my 20ga made my ears ring for about an hour straight
. Wouldn't even think about shooting my Mosin without them, I sometimes shoot my 5.45 AK without them but never more than 30-120 rds. I don't think it hurts too much, definitely not as bad as going for a 2mi run listening to Metallica on my iPod 
, it just doesn't have the same effect when you play it quiet.
I always just use plugs and I think I do fine, most muffs screw up my cheek weld. I used to shoot without them until my 20ga made my ears ring for about an hour straight
. Wouldn't even think about shooting my Mosin without them, I sometimes shoot my 5.45 AK without them but never more than 30-120 rds. I don't think it hurts too much, definitely not as bad as going for a 2mi run listening to Metallica on my iPod , it just doesn't have the same effect when you play it quiet.I've heard the "open your mouth" advice given in relation to being around very loud noises/explosions without hearing protection.
The rationale I heard was that your open mouth allows some of the blast pressure inside your mouth and into your ears through the tubes that empty from your ears into your throat. The idea is that the pressure coming through the tubes equalizes the pressure in your ears and may help prevent your eardrums from rupturing from the blast.
If you're using hearing protection I think you're better off leaving your mouth closed.
The rationale I heard was that your open mouth allows some of the blast pressure inside your mouth and into your ears through the tubes that empty from your ears into your throat. The idea is that the pressure coming through the tubes equalizes the pressure in your ears and may help prevent your eardrums from rupturing from the blast.
If you're using hearing protection I think you're better off leaving your mouth closed.
amen to that gentlemen,
i now have to live with constant ringing in my ears that could have been prevented with a set of ear plugs that cost less than one single round of ammo. live and don't learn, that's me! also do not ever discharge a firearm without eye protection, because the tiniest speck of debris going the wrong direction could cause a horrible tragedy. thank you
i now have to live with constant ringing in my ears that could have been prevented with a set of ear plugs that cost less than one single round of ammo. live and don't learn, that's me! also do not ever discharge a firearm without eye protection, because the tiniest speck of debris going the wrong direction could cause a horrible tragedy. thank you
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