Head space Gages

Haven't had a datum in some years now…. and if I wanted to try one again… I certainly wouldn't go on the inter webs to find one:eek:
 
Am I not correct?
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I size cases for short chambers. I increases the dies ability to reduce the length of the case from the shoulder to the head of the case by raising the case head off of the deck of the shell holder with a feeler gage. The die and shell holder are designed to reduce the length of the case to minimum length from the shoulder to the case head.

Then there are times the case has more resistance to sizing than the press can overcome, same thing, I use feeler gages between the deck of the shell holder and case head to increases the presses ability to overcome the cases ability to resist sizing.

The feeler gage is the companion tool top the press, when a reloader sizes the case and it will not chamber instead of seeking therapy they should reach for the feeler gage before lowering the ram. If the die is adjusted to the shell holder when sizing the reloader can measure the distance between the die and shell holder before lowering the ram. Anything sticking out and is holding the die off the shell holder did not get sized. On very large cases I have found gaps of .017" on very strong presses.

A reloadeer can also remove the die from the press before lowering the ram with the protruding case. simply rotate the shell holder for removal then screw the die out of the press.

After removing the die measure the case head protrusion form the die. Again. The deck height of the shell holder is .125".

What does a reloader do with a case that is sized for a short chamber? I find short cases handy when cutting chambers. Most chamber cutters claim it is necessary to check often because nobody knows where they are until finished. those that do not know where they are until they finish are not good listeners.

F. Guffey
 
I can make headspace gauges for rimmed or belted cartridges.
I can make headspace gauges for rimmed or belted cartridges plus a thread.

But for cartridges that headspace off the shoulder, I will use any storebought go gauge.
For years I just used a piece of new brass and increased headspace until the bolt closed without effort. I was just being cheap.

Sometimes if I have a Wilson case gauge, and I have a piece of brass that fits just right, then I might use that as a headspace gauge, if I did not have the storebought go gauge.
 
That worked for me for years too. Only difference is, I ran fired brass through a full length sizer die before using it as a gage. You could get into trouble just using new brass. Headspace gages are highly over rated. I have noticed that the majority of people that use them are using them incorrectly anyway.
I never saw so many problems with headspace (Real or imagined) until the internet came along.
 
Gunplummer
I never saw so many problems with headspace (Real or imagined) until the internet came along.
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I think there are a lot less headspace problems in the real world.
I think there are a lot less 1" groups in the real world.

There was a Nobel prize for Weinberg for figuring out there are a lot constraints on a universe in order for us to be able to observe that we have a universe.

So when we select a population of gun guys that are willing to stare at a monitor and type into a keyboard for hours, we get a lot of posts about headspace. It has a lot to do with angels dancing on the head of a pin.
 
Unless you have a Case Headspace Comparator Set and have established the case headspace dimensions that fit your particular chamber, "bumping" the case -- whether by feeler gauge or not -- leaves you no less blind than simple FL resizing.
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As the loader with limited funds for tools. I am using the Wilson gage for a quick peak at the case.
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Longshot4, limited funds, the Wilson case gage is a very accurate gage. The Wilson case gage is a datum based tool. The Wilson case gage datum is different than datums I make. The Wilson datum has a radius, my datums have a sharp edge. Back to limited funds, All I need is a drill and bit and a means of keeping the hole I drill perpendicular.

Then there is determining the length of the chamber from the shoulder to the bolt face. Most reloaders fire to form, I form first then fire.

Limited funds? Most reloaders purchase head space gages, a skilled reloader with a press and dies with threads can size/form cases. I can form a case to any length, if I purchased head space gages I would have a choice of three, go, no and beyond. A skilled reloader can measure the length of a case from the shoulder to the head of the case, I do not find it necessary to start over every day.

F. Guffey
 
CW308 and Metal- Off topic here, but I know you both shoot 308's. Just did testing for last 2 weeks now on IMR's new 4166 powder in the 308. Got to tell you both- RL-15 is gone now. My new 308 load is IMR4166. You guys need to give it a shot.
Back on topic- I do have a Comparator- I use it when I get a new rifle, after that it just collects dust.
 
Unless you have a Case Headspace Comparator Set and have established the case headspace dimensions that fit your particular chamber, "bumping" the case -- whether by feeler gauge or not -- leaves you no less blind than simple FL resizing.

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So here I am with a case that is getting tight in the chamber. Or could I say tight in the gage.
So I put a .008 feeler in the case holder and run the case up into the die. I put the case in the gage or should I say chamber and close the bolt gently. If it doesn't fit I use a .006 feeler under the head and runr up. I try again until the bolt closes easy. That is a perfect fit the way I understand it.

Am I not correct?
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I have a M1917 with a long chamber. It is .002" longer than a field reject length chamber. That is .011" longer than a go-gage length chamber. I checked case head protrusion, the case head protrusion is the same as a chamber that is go-gage length. (No one on this forum can explain that one to me)

When sizing cases for that chamber I use 280 Remington cases. I adjust the 30/06 die off the shell holder .014" with a feeler gage. After making the adjustment I size the cases. the 280 Remington case is longer than the 30/06 from the shoulder to the case head by .051" meaning I can use a 280 Remington case to off set the length of a 30/06 chamber simply by sizing and it helps to know how to measure the length of the chamber. I can do that three different ways without head space gages:eek:

Then there is that story about the M1917 and 'the long chamber', the story is the reason this stuff does not lock me up. The subject of the story was a stepper when it came to guns.

He was surrounded with gun smiths, not one of them could ask him "How do you do that?"

F. Guffey
 
He was surrounded with gun smiths, not one of them could ask him "How do you do that?"
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sorry about that, they blamed him for all the long 30/06 chambers in the M1917 rifle, they talked snarky about him, it did not drive him to the curb.

If there was any truth for the blame there would be a problem with case head protrusion.

F. Guffey
 
CW308- You bet. Stuff burns much cleaner, Recoil is about the same except it seems to be a bit Snappier for lack of another word.
 
4runner : How's the velocity ? For what ever reason my best loads tend to be about 1.5 or more grains below max . That is often around 120+ fps less then I'd really like . In the case of 4064 it's 40.3gr . I just tested RL-15 and 168gr Hornady match bullets . Best load was 41.5gr . This must be the rifle that likes the lower charges .
 
Metal- I did note a loss in MV, but increase in accuracy. I was running 41.0 of 4166 and pulling 2645 high and 2635 was the low. 50 rounds and my spread was less then 10 FPS . Just got back from Scheels with another LB.
It is some kind of Anti Fouling powder too. Going to run a patch down the tube now after 150 rounds total to see what it looks like. Kinda made me fall in love with my 308 all over again.:D

Also wanted to mention- 42.5 gns was just as accurate. Did not Chrony that load. Since all I do is target shoot I decided to stay with 41.0 to save powder. It is $5.00 a LB more then the rest. It's $30.00/lb.

Metal- I think I found a way around having to use GM210M primers now. Was using CCI-BR2's and lapua Brass, COAL was set at 2.79. Serria 168 match.

Sorry CW308- don't mean to Hijack your thread. I just know you both shoot the 308 and I wanted to get this out to both of you. Been a while since a powder has impressed me this much.
 
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4runnerman, no problem on the hijack, on the 4166 what is your oal, are you jamming or jumping your rounds. I always load on the low side for accuracy.
 
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