Head is spinning!

Rounds

I've been shooting a bit of the Hornady Critical Defense 9mm & .38 Special.
I like the low recoil and elevated velocity. However the grain bullet is a little lighter generally speaking. They claim tough construction, integrety shooting through barriers ie denim, glass etc. AND EXPANSION UNDER ANY CONDITION. Generally trust Hornady and have used their ammo for deer hunting. Does anyone here have an opinion on the Critical Defense ammo pistol ammo? It's priced as a Premium defense ammo. I apologize if this is a thread hi-jack.
 
mes228, I originally had some Critcal Defense when I started this thread; however, I wasn't a big fan of it from the day I bought it (kind of got suckered in). No, I didn't test it personally, but I just didn't like the rubber in the end. Brass fetcher done some test with this round against a "bone" plate covered in a thin layer of skin like material in front of a block of ballistic gel. The round, in .40, failed everytime when shot in the bone plate. I'm not saying anything bad, but there is a test you can look at. Speer Golds failed as well. No round will expand 100% of the time though
 
accuracy? whats that? youll be 5-20 feet away. Surely you won't find ammo thats 5" off at 7 yards :(

Feeding and light primer strikes would be the two most important in my book.
 
accuracy? whats that? youll be 5-20 feet away.
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Are you precognitive?

How do you know that all of your encounters are going to be only that far away? What if he needs to make a shot at 15 yards against a partially obscured target?

Remember, to make a instant stop, you have to hit something the width of your thumb. If you are indexing on the target's centerline and you shoot 3 inches left, you might miss.

I agree feed and function are most vital, but if a round's POI doesn't hit very close to POA, you are uncessarily handicapping yourself in a potential fight for your life.
 
Crow,
Yes I am precognitive... ;)

Anyways we arent john wayne, john mclane or john rambo. Heh can anyone think of any other action guys named john?

If the guy is 15 yards away and partially obscured then he's far enough away for you to run away.

And for dramatics what if he's got your significant other with him, just let him go, he's holding her for a shield against your CCW.

Lastly if we are talking about ammo around $1/round it should be fine for most anything.
 
If the guy is 15 yards away and partially obscured then he's far enough away for you to run away.
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What if you have just been the victim of a attempted car jacking and your car has been T-boned by his with him taking cover at the back of his vehicle and you taking cover behind the engine block/wheel of your car and all you have behind you is an open street? Are you going to turn and run and let him shoot you in the back? What if the only target you have are his feet under the car.

I understand your point and if that works for you, more power to you.:D

I prefer a round that hits where I aim.

Heck, I use mine for hunting rabbits sometimes. Hard to hit a rabbit if it shoots 4 inches to the left, even if he is standing still.:p
 
Remington Golden Saber (not bonded) 124gr (no +P) for $20. 25/box
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I use these in the +P variety (also non bonded). I'm sure the non +p will be fine too. Both the +P and the non are available at multiple stores in my area.

I've found the PDX to not feed in a few finicky firearms but I don't consider a G19 finicky so that would probably be fine too. I know nothing about Gold Dot other than what others have said.

I prefer a round that hits where I aim
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All rounds hit where you aim. It's just that most of us think our aim is better than it is. These are all premium selections. I do not believe one will significantly outperform the others in achievable accuracy. Buy what you like and can get readily.
 
I use the 124gr+P Gold Dot but only because I got it on a Police contract overrun.
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Me too, something like that but from NY, and they were $12.50 a box/50 to my door from gun broker, so I own about 2000+ rounds.:eek:
 
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accuracy? whats that? youll be 5-20 feet away.
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Are you precognitive?

How do you know that all of your encounters are going to be only that far away? What if he needs to make a shot at 15 yards against a partially obscured target?
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hmmmm Do you plan on engaging in a battle ? Why are you shooting at someone 45 feet away ? I think a jury might consider such shooting as other than reasonable. I am not military in a war zone, or LEO on the steets, and have not thought of a scenario where I'd be forced to engage at 45 feet, or more. What were you thinking of for such a scenario ?

Shooting rabbits is not the purpose of a personal defense handgun. Kraigwy shoots rabbits with his J-Frame, I sure could not.
 
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hmmmm Do you plan on engaging in a battle ? Why are you shooting at someone 45 feet away ? I think a jury might consider such shooting as other than reasonable. I am not military in a war zone, or LEO on the steets, and have not thought of a scenario where I'd be forced to engage at 45 feet, or more. What were you thinking of for such a scenario ?

Shooting rabbits is not the purpose of a personal defense handgun. Kraigwy shoots rabbits with his J-Frame, I sure could not.
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Do you plan on shooting at IPSC cardboard targets set precisely 7 yards away that are standing still squared to you exactly?:rolleyes:

Have you every participated in or watched examples of Force on Force training? Airsoft? Paintball? Do targets stand still at exact distances squared up to you? Unless they are morons, they move, they dodge, they hide behind things.

How do you envision a self defense shooting happening? High noon in the street? What if someone pulls a gun on you and you take cover behind something that has a significant distance between it and the next piece of cover? Are you going to call a temporary time out while you re-position? Surrender and hope they don't kill you? Turn and run and hope Divine Providence will keep them from shooting you in the back as you try to escape?

Personally I live in a very rural area. I am from a county that is one of the prime producers of Meth in the state. I have found evidence of a outdoor meth lab on a cousins property and I personally own 200 acres of property and help out with family on others. I don't always carry a rifle with me when checking the property. If I walk up on a meth lab and I need to defend myself, it could be anywhere from 7 feet to 50 yards or more. 15 yards isn't that far at all.

Shooting rabbits is part of the fun of having a CCW, at least where I am from.:D
 
Rationalize it anyway you want.

How do evision a SD situation:
- Attempted carjacking ... BG is 6 feet away if he is trying to get into my locked car.
- Intruder breaks into my house ... BG is at most 20 feet away.
- Nut case starts shooting people in the mall, the fast food, ... BG is closing on me at 20 feet.

I do not play wargames. I am not LEO. I find it difficult to imagine a person at 45 feet being a reasonable lethal threat to me, unless it is a 'Combat' type situation. I'm too old to go looking for those. Good luck on defending yourself at those rual distances. Not all of us have that situation.
 
How do evision a SD situation:
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It is what it is. You dont get to choose.

Down the road at the Unimart, its a 50'+ shot from the front of the store to the back. Walmart and the Weis, its measured in yards, not feet.

SD isnt just close range, and if you dont practice for everything, and arent realistic in your practice, then youre just kidding yourself.
 
Why on earth if I am at a store where the bad guy is 50 feet away get involved. I am not about to get into a shooting match at 50 feet with any body. You may choose to get involved. I choose not to. In that scenario I will exit stage left. So I'm kidding myself.

Another thought might be, 'What you practice for, will happen.'
 
So if you had been in Jeanne Assam shoes at church in 2007, you would have just turned and walked away?

For reference she fired 10 shots from 63 feet away and stopped the madman.

I have never been in that type of situation (and hope never to be) and I don't know how I would perform, but I don't think that I could live with myself if I had a means to stop something like that from happening and I did nothing about it.

Another thought might be, 'What you practice for, will happen.'
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Is that like some type of New Age visualization therapy?:rolleyes: So practicing tornado drills and fire drills will cause them to happen?;)

Seriously though. Go with what works for you and what makes you confident. If you are willing and able to make the shots that are part of the "script in your mind" and you can do this on demand. You are better than a lot of people who carry guns every day.

Mindset
Tactics
Skill
Equipment
 
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