That's very odd. I have made a point of talking to Kimber Master Dealers at gun shows and none have expressed any of the problems your dealer friends have talked about. Were the dealers you spoke to MASTER dealers or simply dealers? Because a non-Master dealer does not get the same price breaks due to not ordering as much stock, which would make the guns harder to sell.
Have the tables turned against Kimber?
- Thread starter Red Bull
- Start date
I had a Kimber Pro Carry once. At first, it functioned very reliably.
However, then I started to have problems. First, the slide failed to lock back after the last shot of each magazine. Then after the break-in period with FMJ, I tried JHP and found that pretty much everything I tried except the 185 grain Silvertips would fail to feed once every 25-30 rounds. And then I had some minor problems here and there.
I shipped the gun back to the company after a couple of e-mail correspondences with fairly helpful customer service.
The gun came back pretty quickly. At the end of the last shot with the factory mag, the gun again failed to lock back! I quit using the factory mag and stuck to Wilson mags. No more of that particular problem.
However, the gun continued to fail to feed Fed 185 grain Hi-Shok, 230 grain Hydra-Shok and 165 grain Personal Defense every so often. It also sent the brass back to my face every few rounds. I also could not release the slide by "slinging it" and had to use the slide stop every time.
I now have a Springfield full-size and have been very happy with it. It appears to be less accurate than the Kimber, but it is more reliable.
My Kimber may have been atyptical, but I am a bit wary about buying another Kimber. It could be that the full-size all-steel Kimber is very reliable while its compact, aluminum-framed cousin is less so. Or maybe it was just a fluke, a lemon. I can't tell. All I know was that I wasn't going to keep incurring shipping charge to fix a gun that should've been 100%. But I had to sell it cheap to offset its reliability problems. Simply put, I lost money on that gun and I am not very happy about it.
Skorzeny
------------------
For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the supreme excellence. Sun Tzu
However, then I started to have problems. First, the slide failed to lock back after the last shot of each magazine. Then after the break-in period with FMJ, I tried JHP and found that pretty much everything I tried except the 185 grain Silvertips would fail to feed once every 25-30 rounds. And then I had some minor problems here and there.
I shipped the gun back to the company after a couple of e-mail correspondences with fairly helpful customer service.
The gun came back pretty quickly. At the end of the last shot with the factory mag, the gun again failed to lock back! I quit using the factory mag and stuck to Wilson mags. No more of that particular problem.
However, the gun continued to fail to feed Fed 185 grain Hi-Shok, 230 grain Hydra-Shok and 165 grain Personal Defense every so often. It also sent the brass back to my face every few rounds. I also could not release the slide by "slinging it" and had to use the slide stop every time.
I now have a Springfield full-size and have been very happy with it. It appears to be less accurate than the Kimber, but it is more reliable.
My Kimber may have been atyptical, but I am a bit wary about buying another Kimber. It could be that the full-size all-steel Kimber is very reliable while its compact, aluminum-framed cousin is less so. Or maybe it was just a fluke, a lemon. I can't tell. All I know was that I wasn't going to keep incurring shipping charge to fix a gun that should've been 100%. But I had to sell it cheap to offset its reliability problems. Simply put, I lost money on that gun and I am not very happy about it.
Skorzeny
------------------
For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the supreme excellence. Sun Tzu
Skorzeny,
I agree with everything you said, but your last comment caught my eye. I don't know about anyone else, but I have lost money on every gun I have ever sold (except preban rifles and shotguns). I actually have lost lots of money on each gun I have sold (hundreds less than I paid). Guns included DE 44mag/50AE, Walther P99, Kahr K9, HK Tactical, Glock 21, Calico M110, (Most of these had no more than 150-200 rounds put through them)- Calico was NIB. Still have my Kimber Combat Carry though.
I agree with everything you said, but your last comment caught my eye. I don't know about anyone else, but I have lost money on every gun I have ever sold (except preban rifles and shotguns). I actually have lost lots of money on each gun I have sold (hundreds less than I paid). Guns included DE 44mag/50AE, Walther P99, Kahr K9, HK Tactical, Glock 21, Calico M110, (Most of these had no more than 150-200 rounds put through them)- Calico was NIB. Still have my Kimber Combat Carry though.
Rikwriter,
They were simply large dealers. They carried a lot of Kimbers at first. For some of the same reasons that were expessed by guys on this thread, they did not wish to become Master dealers but sell off inventory and carry the old stand bys. I personally have liked the Kimbers in as much as I could tell from holding them side by side with other brands. I planned to buy one when they first came out too. I wanted some custom work done that the custom shop didn't want to do, so I found another company of very high repute to do it. Nothing against kimber. Just my limited conversations w/kimber owners and dealers. That's all.
------------------
"But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip; and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." -Jesus Christ (Luke 22:36, see John 3:15-18)
They were simply large dealers. They carried a lot of Kimbers at first. For some of the same reasons that were expessed by guys on this thread, they did not wish to become Master dealers but sell off inventory and carry the old stand bys. I personally have liked the Kimbers in as much as I could tell from holding them side by side with other brands. I planned to buy one when they first came out too. I wanted some custom work done that the custom shop didn't want to do, so I found another company of very high repute to do it. Nothing against kimber. Just my limited conversations w/kimber owners and dealers. That's all.
------------------
"But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip; and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." -Jesus Christ (Luke 22:36, see John 3:15-18)
JG:
Of course I expect to lose money if I sell a gun. That was not what I meant.
What I meant was that I lost money because 1) I had to sell a gun (because of its problems) instead of keeping it and getting my money's worth, so to speak, and 2) I got even less money for it that I should've, because of its declared reliability problems.
If the gun functioned 100% like it should have, I would've kept it and would have not lost any money on it. That's all I meant.
When I buy a $575 product (TV, VCR, DVD, what ever), I expect it to work all the time for a few years if not longer. Why should I accept any less in a gun, which is supposed to be a precision-manufactured ware?
Skorzeny
------------------
For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the supreme excellence. Sun Tzu
Of course I expect to lose money if I sell a gun. That was not what I meant.
What I meant was that I lost money because 1) I had to sell a gun (because of its problems) instead of keeping it and getting my money's worth, so to speak, and 2) I got even less money for it that I should've, because of its declared reliability problems.
If the gun functioned 100% like it should have, I would've kept it and would have not lost any money on it. That's all I meant.
When I buy a $575 product (TV, VCR, DVD, what ever), I expect it to work all the time for a few years if not longer. Why should I accept any less in a gun, which is supposed to be a precision-manufactured ware?
Skorzeny
------------------
For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the supreme excellence. Sun Tzu
*sigh* Why do people keep trying to improve the 1911?
This is the 90s! If you take a well cared for US Pistol Model of 1911A1 and fire ball ammo, it will group better than 90% of people can shoot it. And function reliably, too. In other words, the potential of the gun is greater than most shooters can exploit. The hot rodded 45 is a solution in search of a problem, as Col. Cooper would say.
What do the stainless steel, gussied up modern pistols have that ol' Slabsides lacks? Cosmetic appeal. We pistoleers need to realize that new is not necessarily better. The part that gets me is these Johnny-come-latelies seem to think ol' John Moses Browning and COLT didn't know whut they were a'doin!
Make mine a stocker, please!
[rant mode off]
------------------
We don't have a chaplain here, but I don't view that as any major problem... You can rest assured that you will not go in that bag until I've said a few appropriate words over you
R. Lee Ermy as Sgt Major Haffner, from The Siege of Firebase Gloria
This is the 90s! If you take a well cared for US Pistol Model of 1911A1 and fire ball ammo, it will group better than 90% of people can shoot it. And function reliably, too. In other words, the potential of the gun is greater than most shooters can exploit. The hot rodded 45 is a solution in search of a problem, as Col. Cooper would say.
What do the stainless steel, gussied up modern pistols have that ol' Slabsides lacks? Cosmetic appeal. We pistoleers need to realize that new is not necessarily better. The part that gets me is these Johnny-come-latelies seem to think ol' John Moses Browning and COLT didn't know whut they were a'doin!
Make mine a stocker, please!
[rant mode off]
------------------
We don't have a chaplain here, but I don't view that as any major problem... You can rest assured that you will not go in that bag until I've said a few appropriate words over you
R. Lee Ermy as Sgt Major Haffner, from The Siege of Firebase Gloria
BigG, sorry, but that tune just don't play anymore. First off, I personally HAVE to have a beavertail grip safety, as a milspec 1911 will give me a blood blister from hammer bite every time I shoot it. Second, military sights on a 1911 are atrocious and need replacing. Third, the forward cocking serrations are very handy for me---it allows me to empty the round in the chamber into the hand I am pulling the slide with, rather than allowing it to skitter all over the floor.
Fourth, the lowered ejection port does make the gun more reliable. Fifth, the extended safety makes me able to flick off the safety without taking my finger off the trigger or altering my grip. Sixth, the flat mainspring housing makes the gun sit better and point better in my hand.
So I guess it really isn't all cosmetics, huh?
Fourth, the lowered ejection port does make the gun more reliable. Fifth, the extended safety makes me able to flick off the safety without taking my finger off the trigger or altering my grip. Sixth, the flat mainspring housing makes the gun sit better and point better in my hand.
So I guess it really isn't all cosmetics, huh?
Hi Rik 
Let's don't get into our usual pi$$ing contest! You're my bud, we have to agree to disagree on this 'un. I think ol' JMB designed that sucker pretty well and that people modify it because they CAN, at least for the most part! I admit some of the changes are nice and some of the changes are for sale!
------------------
Be mentally deliberate, but muscularly fast. Aim for just above the belt buckle.
Wyatt Earp
Let's don't get into our usual pi$$ing contest! You're my bud, we have to agree to disagree on this 'un. I think ol' JMB designed that sucker pretty well and that people modify it because they CAN, at least for the most part! I admit some of the changes are nice and some of the changes are for sale!
------------------
Be mentally deliberate, but muscularly fast. Aim for just above the belt buckle.
Wyatt Earp
No BigG, it is impossible for me to agree to disagree with you, because I am living proof your point is mistaken. I DO need a beavertail grip safety or I can't shoot the gun without hammer bite. I DO need a straight mainspring housing or the gun doesn't point right for me. I DO need an extended safety to work it without taking my finger off the trigger. I DO need better sights to shoot better.
So NO, I won't agree that it's for cosmetics, because I didn't do it for looks.
Sorry if you don't understand the concept here.
Nothing personal, but you're just plain wrong.
So NO, I won't agree that it's for cosmetics, because I didn't do it for looks.
Sorry if you don't understand the concept here.
Nothing personal, but you're just plain wrong.
Rik, you don't HAVE to shoot a 1911, you can get a Glock or somethin' else.
You may be the rare exception of a guy who knows what he's looking for and what he is looking AT.
MOST Kimber owners I personally know don't know for sure which end the bullet comes out. The would-be 1911 gunner buys because it looks COOL. And of course, a tighter slide to frame fit means the gun was manufactured better and much more quality built than a US Pistol Model of 1911A1 or *gasp* a COLT!
WRONG! Any pistolsmith will tell you that slide to frame fit contributes about 10% of the possible accuracy enhancement of the 1911 pistol. However, it is the most noticeable change from a standard pistol to someone mildly familiar with the 1911 pistol and the drugstore pistoleer assures himself that it will solve all his accuracy problems, with the horrendous kicking, brass spewing monster! I say: Buy more ammo! Shoot more! Don't blame the gun! Blame No. 1!
The tight slide also contributes to malfunctions, something that JMB wisely, in my opinion, designed OUT of the 1911 pistol.
When you really know what you're doing, buy whatever you want. But the uninformed who are buying for a specific purpose, such a personal defense, need to buy first and foremost a RELIABLE pistol.
------------------
Be mentally deliberate, but muscularly fast. Aim for just above the belt buckle.
Wyatt Earp
You may be the rare exception of a guy who knows what he's looking for and what he is looking AT.
MOST Kimber owners I personally know don't know for sure which end the bullet comes out. The would-be 1911 gunner buys because it looks COOL. And of course, a tighter slide to frame fit means the gun was manufactured better and much more quality built than a US Pistol Model of 1911A1 or *gasp* a COLT!
WRONG! Any pistolsmith will tell you that slide to frame fit contributes about 10% of the possible accuracy enhancement of the 1911 pistol. However, it is the most noticeable change from a standard pistol to someone mildly familiar with the 1911 pistol and the drugstore pistoleer assures himself that it will solve all his accuracy problems, with the horrendous kicking, brass spewing monster! I say: Buy more ammo! Shoot more! Don't blame the gun! Blame No. 1!
The tight slide also contributes to malfunctions, something that JMB wisely, in my opinion, designed OUT of the 1911 pistol.
When you really know what you're doing, buy whatever you want. But the uninformed who are buying for a specific purpose, such a personal defense, need to buy first and foremost a RELIABLE pistol.
------------------
Be mentally deliberate, but muscularly fast. Aim for just above the belt buckle.
Wyatt Earp
BigG, I know I don't have to shoot a 1911, but I have found that a 1911 with a straight backstrap to be the most accurate gun in my hand.
As for your comment about most of the Kimber owners you know not knowing which end the round comes out of, I tend to think you're being hyperbolic. I know a lot of "gunny" people around here that love Kimber. And, I might add, don't think too much of Colt.
As for your comment about most of the Kimber owners you know not knowing which end the round comes out of, I tend to think you're being hyperbolic. I know a lot of "gunny" people around here that love Kimber. And, I might add, don't think too much of Colt.
Rik, I just re-read our discussion... You put your safety on while your finger is on the trigger?!? Bad, bad!! 
------------------
Be mentally deliberate but muscularly fast. Aim for just above the belt buckle Wyatt Earp
45 ACP: Give 'em a new navel! BigG
"It is error alone that needs government support; truth can stand by itself." Tom Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1785
------------------
Be mentally deliberate but muscularly fast. Aim for just above the belt buckle Wyatt Earp
45 ACP: Give 'em a new navel! BigG
"It is error alone that needs government support; truth can stand by itself." Tom Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1785
Steve Smith
New member
Well, I've p.o'ed some folks on another board about this, so here goes here. Skorzeny, I agree with you 100%. I loved my Kimber's accuracy, but hated it's pi$$ poor reliability and customer service, including the lies I constantly recieved from them on reliability matters. I now have several Springfields that aren't as accurate as the Kimber, but at least they work!
------------------
"Those who cannot understand safe design nor fine trigger mechanics need not consider the 1911, for them, the Glock is a fine weapon, since it has neither!"---by Me.
------------------
"Those who cannot understand safe design nor fine trigger mechanics need not consider the 1911, for them, the Glock is a fine weapon, since it has neither!"---by Me.
Frontsight
I can't believe people on another board would get P.O.'d for you stating that you prefer Springfield over Kimber. If you gotta Kimber that don't work and you have a Springfield or SpringfieldS that do.........real hard on making a desision on which one you'll favor.
Some people can be pretty thin skinned.
Anyways I have a Kimber that's Not 100% reliable either but it sure is a lot better than the Springfield I just got. If I had to make a choice on the two it wouldn't take me too long to choose which one I'd take.
If you haven't read about my headaches on my Springfield check the "Sell Kimber, for a Springfield Compact" thread going on here.
Thanks
Ross T.
I can't believe people on another board would get P.O.'d for you stating that you prefer Springfield over Kimber. If you gotta Kimber that don't work and you have a Springfield or SpringfieldS that do.........real hard on making a desision on which one you'll favor.
Some people can be pretty thin skinned.
Anyways I have a Kimber that's Not 100% reliable either but it sure is a lot better than the Springfield I just got. If I had to make a choice on the two it wouldn't take me too long to choose which one I'd take.
If you haven't read about my headaches on my Springfield check the "Sell Kimber, for a Springfield Compact" thread going on here.
Thanks
Ross T.
Steve Smith
New member
I can certainly concede that every company turns out duds, but contrary to Kimber's well-known lack of service,I've heard several folks sing the praises of SA's service. To me, customer service is equal to product in importance. If Kimber had just fixed the problem, the'd never heard a peep from me except how great a job they'd done.
------------------
"Those who cannot understand safe design nor fine trigger mechanics need not consider the 1911, for them, the Glock is a fine weapon, since it has neither!"---by Me.
------------------
"Those who cannot understand safe design nor fine trigger mechanics need not consider the 1911, for them, the Glock is a fine weapon, since it has neither!"---by Me.
Some people weren't fooled by K!M3ER from the beginning. Other people are shills and will not be reasonable. Let the reader decide.
As for me, my used Colt Gummint Models and Gold Cups are the best! Don' need no steenkin' K!M3ER, LLAMA, Charles Daly, Auto Ordnance, Springfield copy. John Moses Browning assigned the patents to COLT.
If a person is new to 1911s, he would be well advised to buy a used Colt Government Model, Commander, or Gold Cup. Use the money saved to purchase Colt magazines and ammunition. Then shoot that Colt pistol! At least it will be accurate and reliable, which is more than most copies can legitimately claim. Once you have become and expert pistoleer with the Colt 45 Automatic Pistol, you can then consider buying a more sophisticated model such as a Baer, Wilson, Clark, or other reputable builder. Stay away from off brands unless you are able to fix the problems.
------------------
Be mentally deliberate but muscularly fast. Aim for just above the belt buckle Wyatt Earp
45 ACP: Give 'em a new navel! BigG
"It is error alone that needs government support; truth can stand by itself." Tom Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1785
We don't have a chaplain here, but I don't view that as any major problem... You can rest assured
that you will not go in that bag until I've said a few appropriate words over you
R. Lee Ermy as Sgt Major Haffner, from The Siege of Firebase Gloria
If you have to shoot a man, shoot him in the guts. It may not kill him... sometimes they die slow, but it'll paralyze his brain and arm and the fight is all but over Wild Bill Hickok
As for me, my used Colt Gummint Models and Gold Cups are the best! Don' need no steenkin' K!M3ER, LLAMA, Charles Daly, Auto Ordnance, Springfield copy. John Moses Browning assigned the patents to COLT.
If a person is new to 1911s, he would be well advised to buy a used Colt Government Model, Commander, or Gold Cup. Use the money saved to purchase Colt magazines and ammunition. Then shoot that Colt pistol! At least it will be accurate and reliable, which is more than most copies can legitimately claim. Once you have become and expert pistoleer with the Colt 45 Automatic Pistol, you can then consider buying a more sophisticated model such as a Baer, Wilson, Clark, or other reputable builder. Stay away from off brands unless you are able to fix the problems.
------------------
Be mentally deliberate but muscularly fast. Aim for just above the belt buckle Wyatt Earp
45 ACP: Give 'em a new navel! BigG
"It is error alone that needs government support; truth can stand by itself." Tom Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1785
We don't have a chaplain here, but I don't view that as any major problem... You can rest assured
that you will not go in that bag until I've said a few appropriate words over you
R. Lee Ermy as Sgt Major Haffner, from The Siege of Firebase Gloria
If you have to shoot a man, shoot him in the guts. It may not kill him... sometimes they die slow, but it'll paralyze his brain and arm and the fight is all but over Wild Bill Hickok
Yeah B!gG, JMB assigned the patents to Colt...and of course, they have bastardized them. Guess that makes Colt an "off brand." Hear that folks? B!gG says to stay away from Colt...hehe. But of course, I won't be taking his advice as I do have two of the new XSL Colts. You know, the ones Kimber FORCED them to make?