Have I made a mistake?

If you had to choose one as a woods gun:

  • .44 magnum revolver

    Votes: 108 88.5%

  • Hi capacity .45 acp Semi automatic

    Votes: 14 11.5%
  • Total voters
    122
  • Poll closed .
Well a full size gov't 1911 (7+1) can be emptied in 1.5 seconds (1st to last shot). Don't think I can do that with a 44 Mag, will have to try. As for penetration, in my tests thru spruce 2x6s, the 44 Mag went 4.5 boards deep and the 45 ACP went 3.5 boards deep...not as bad as I thought the results would be...wouldn't call the instructor an idiot, adventurous maybe...but you gotta remember, he's from the Baltic, and them folks are tough.

If all I had was a fully loaded 1911 with (hardcast or fmj) I would at least stand a chance.
 
As for penetration, in my tests thru spruce 2x6s, the 44 Mag went 4.5 boards deep and the 45 ACP went 3.5 boards deep...not as bad as I thought the results would be...wouldn't call the instructor an idiot, adventurous maybe...but you gotta remember, he's from the Baltic, and them folks are tough.
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do you have any idea the wide range of loads for a 44 magnum? The most powerful for a 44 magnum blow the 45 out of the water. I can tell by your experiment that you were not testing any kind of a hot 44 magnum. The 45 acp has its merits, but if against a bear, its time to run away.

Well a full size gov't 1911 (7+1) can be emptied in 1.5 seconds (1st to last shot).
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Hmmmm so if one 45 acp under penetrates a bear, what will 7 do? Anyone?

So a bear is ready to attack you, and you think you will get 7 45 acp shots off ACCURATELY in 1.5 secs? Are you kidding

This thread needs to be closed.
 
Please post your instructors name as he is an idiot and needs to be avoided. If you're truely being attacked you ain't gonna have time to get off 6 shots let alone 10, 12, whatever and there's also a certian amount of natural selection that goes into the "if 6 isn't enough" scenario. A bear can cover a lot of ground in just a second or two. .44M vs. .45acp? Please...........

LK
 
I think the 10mm suits this role better than either the .45 or the .44 magnum.

The 10mm is a viable handgun hunting round and will stop big game as well as big predators.

Unless you're using FMJ, a .45 ACP hollow point is likely to only penetrate 12" and that may not be enough to reach vital organs on a bear.
 
Folks.

I see where some of you are coming from but, please lets reign in the judgements on my instructor's intellect. I can assure each and every one of you that he is not an idiot.
Far from it.

His general point was that in the event of a bear attack I would have very little time to react (something already concurred in this thread), and that I would need to be lucky to hit much in that time and under duress, (something else that has been confirmed in this thread). So anything that could increase the chances of two hits as opposed to one, with faster follow ups would probably increase chances of survival. He also said that if you hit a bear he'd likely feel nothing if in a red mist (something else again agreed on), so you had to hope for a critical hit: once more the chances increase if you can get more than one shot of.

So all in all, he was pretty much saying what has been said on here: hope for a critical hit, but ultimately don't count on a handgun. The only difference is we seem to be mainly looking at .44 in terms of power, and he was looking at it in terms of rate of fire.

He saw me shooting my .44, and my follow-up shots were not fast. :o
Admittedly, this is only the second time I have shot magnums out of it. Other times it was only .44Spl.
I am virtually certain that I would be able to shoot a .45 3 or 4 times in the time I can shoot my .44 twice.

Still practice makes perfect, and I am still pleased I bought my Redhawk!!
I'll carry it, but with a can of spray, too
 
Ahoy Winchester 73,

In the spruce penetration test Winchester 44 Mag 240 gr sjfp, and Winchester 45 ACP 230 gr fmj were used.

"do you have any idea the wide range of loads for a 44 magnum? "

For bear, I roll my own, and for the 44 Mag I use H110 powder.

"Hmmmm so if one 45 acp under penetrates a bear, what will 7 do? Anyone?"

Well a Taurus PT1911 was used to stop a bear (Oregon, May, 2008). Ditto a 9mm fmj (Alaska, August, 2002) and as mentioned upstream, also a 40 S&W.

Re post 28, my choice is a 44 Mag, but if all I have is a 45, then that's all I have. Sometimes you can't run.
 
My vote is .44 mag, I'd rather have penetration/stopping power vs extra ammo that'll annoy/hurt the animal. Now what if there's a group of man eating vicious blood lusting bears? Then it's just not your day...
 
I'll take 1 round of a Buffalo Bore 44 magnum load that will exit out the other side of the bear's rear end compared to 8 rounds of 45 ACP that probably won't even reach the vitals in most medium sized black bears. Carry what you want though. The 10mm is a much better alternative in an auto.
 
.44 mag

Even though my encounters with bears have never warranted use of a firearm, the more powerful the cartridge, the better. Realistically though, situational awareness and having a knowledge of the critters in your area of the world are more important items to be discussing than which type of weapon you need to dispatch them with.

If, however, you're put into that situation where the biggest, meanest creature is bearing down on you...I think shot placement vs. capacity is still more important. Yes, with a semi auto .45 acp you can empty it a lot faster...but remember: You can't miss fast enough.
 
I bought a Ruger Redhawk .44 when I sold my GP100 .357. I didn't have any plans on using it for anything other than shooting. I reload really nice 200 gr RNFPs and it's a real treat to shoot. None of the commercial loadings that I know of are as pleasant.

As far as .44 being better than a .45 for protection against bear:

Once while landing on Kodiak Island the "follow me" trucks were chasing the bears off the runway before we could land. We had armed escort to the terminal. The escorts had rifles.

Back in 1989 a friend who had property about 20 miles from Cantwell, AK was attacked by a grizzly. His first words to anyone were: "Are my ears still on?" Don underwent 9 1/2 hours of surgery and had about 2,000 stitches.

He had left his .357 in the truck and carried nothing but a small brush ax which he threw at the bear. This was of little help even though he nailed the bear on the head.

Getting back to the question which is better. I'd go with the .44 even though I think the best defense against bears is to be watching them on National Geographic.:D
 
Hmmmm so if one 45 acp under penetrates a bear, what will 7 do? Anyone?
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Well a Taurus PT1911 was used to stop a bear (Oregon, May, 2008). Ditto a 9mm fmj (Alaska, August, 2002) and as mentioned upstream, also a 40 S&W
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The point I was making was not IF it could be done, but what was the LIKELY scenario for someone using a 45 acp. It is not "7 accurate shots" or the drop of the bear. Remember, shooting a bear is not the same as a 7 yd body target. In these scenarios, the wrong gun, cal or bullet type can mean your life.
 
James: All the stuipid and helpfull comments aside (I did not vote)

I live in Alaska. When I was in the woods fishing and hunting, I carried a 41 magnum. A bit easier to shoot than a 44 and better penetration.

However, its not an answer as in many cases a grizzly bear (brown, Kodiak etc) has taken 15 rounds or more from large caliber modern high powered guns before going down and in some cases injuring or killing someone before it does.

Pistol is an absolute last resort though it can be used as a noise maker to scare one off. Its a tool.

Black bears you want to kill if they come at you.

Grizzly bear while its difficult, you are by far best off playing dead.

I know of two cases where a grizzly was taken down by a high capacity 9mm. We did not have high capacity semi autos when I was woods trolling.

That said, if I was going to get a gun for that purpose today, I would go with a 357 Sig in 124 and the hottest round you can get and the largest capacity magazine that comes standard (not extended)

Next choice would be 9mm with same criteria (++P)

It really is a mater of luck and the more rounds you have the better your chances. You are not going to get a chance to reload a revolver in a bear encounter (you may not get your high cap rounds off either).
 
Thanks for the input. I may just see if I can have a go with a polymer .45 to see how it feels!! Any excuse to try a new gun.....;)

It really is a mater of luck and the more rounds you have the better your chances.
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That was the general gist of what my instructor was getting at...
 
While I have both semi autos and revolvers, I prefer wheelguns for knocking around the woods. Your instuctor is certainly entitled to his opinion but for bear I'd prefer the power of the .44.
 
Curious how many grizzlies are in Texas? Ever seen one move? I have. Plain scary fast.

A 44 is not powerful in regards to a Grizzly bear. Basicly its like comparing one **** ant to another.

The only thing a 44 is powerful in any comparison is a deer (and then its about as good as a 30-30 which is marginal though highly popular).

If you were carrying a rifle to shoot a bear, minimum would be a 338, guides carry 375 of some persuasion and they like their clients to shoot that or bigger (and the guide shoots as soon if not sooner than the client).

The one black bear I know taken out by a semi auto was a 40 cal. (nice head shot in the exotic animal release).

On the other hand they had one Tiger that took 20 or 30 rounds of 5.56, a number of 308s and still tried to kill them in the end.

The best grizzly acount I eve read was Elmer Keith hunting down on the Alaska Peniual. 5 of them were taking a break on a small hill when one of htem saw a grizzly coming up the hill along their backtrail.

5 experienced big game hunters, lighted gun they had was a 35 Whlen and they emptied their guns as it came up the hill. Almost all hits and it dies just before it got to them.
 
Nothing wrong with a 45Super or even 45 +P for woods protection. You can even load up some of those 300 grain NCP bullets just a hair under sonic velocities for a real thumper. 14 rounds of that will stop anything.
 
The BIG IF,comes in for Me Whatif you only get one shot,
I own both in Bear country the Magnum wins.My SRH is the 454 casull.
So IMO no mistake made. Good choice.
 
Curious how many grizzlies are in Texas? Ever seen one move? I have. Plain scary fast.
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Not likely I'm gonna see many bears here in Iowa either. :p

Hi-cap .357 sig and 9mm for bear protection? That's a new one. Carry what you will, hope it works for ya. But I'd have a hard time trying to convince anyone your recommendations are adequate for black bear let alone for browns and grizzly. Figure if it's not adequate for hunting the critter no way am I gonna think it is for defence against the same.

LK
 
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