Straightshooter629
New member
My preference would be the Ruger. I tend to favor a revolver simply for the simplicity and reliability, and the .44 Mag for the obvious advantage in stopping power. IMHO, I think you made the right choice.
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Have I made a mistake?
- Thread starter Pond James Pond
- Start date
Glockstar .40
New member
they actually say your better off using bear mace. its more effective at dissuading brown bear then a handgun is. but since were talking calibers i love my .45 but after that video link i just watched id feel better with a 44 mag.
Against wolves, coyote or other pack predators I'd want a high/higher cap semi-auto in a 9mm or higher caliber.
Against bear (black, brown or otherwise) I'd want the .44mag revolver. In fact I have a Ruger Super Redhawk in .44mag for just that reason (and I also like to hunt deer with a handgun too).
A .45acp, while plenty powerful for 2 legged critters, is a bit under powered IMHO for big bear.
Against bear (black, brown or otherwise) I'd want the .44mag revolver. In fact I have a Ruger Super Redhawk in .44mag for just that reason (and I also like to hunt deer with a handgun too).
A .45acp, while plenty powerful for 2 legged critters, is a bit under powered IMHO for big bear.
My woods gun is a .22 semi-auto. Works for me.
iirc your in the Baltic states. Just did a google of bears in Estonia and they indicate a population of 500 brown bears. I'm guessing Latvia and Lithuania have similar populations.
At any rate a .44mag will be a better bet than .45acp when it comes to stopping the larger bears.
iirc your in the Baltic states. Just did a google of bears in Estonia and they indicate a population of 500 brown bears. I'm guessing Latvia and Lithuania have similar populations.
At any rate a .44mag will be a better bet than .45acp when it comes to stopping the larger bears.
You didn't make a mistake.
The energy level and penetration of the 44 mag far outperform the 45 ACP. There is a reason why experienced woodsmen prefer 44 magnum. It has the best power to weight ratio while still being controllable for rapid follow-up shots.
Equally important is the ammo selection. For defense against large predators, you need heavy, deep penetrating bullets. Forget hollow points. My choice is Federal Cast Core in 300 grain.
Keep alert and you will likely never have a deadly confrontation with a bear. Some people carry shotguns or rifles and that's fine but realistically you will need to set it down at some point. Strange things seem to happen when you are relieving yourself or daydreaming to the sound of squirrels and birds. That's why the 44 mag revolver is so valuable in the woods. You're always wearing it.
The energy level and penetration of the 44 mag far outperform the 45 ACP. There is a reason why experienced woodsmen prefer 44 magnum. It has the best power to weight ratio while still being controllable for rapid follow-up shots.
Equally important is the ammo selection. For defense against large predators, you need heavy, deep penetrating bullets. Forget hollow points. My choice is Federal Cast Core in 300 grain.
Keep alert and you will likely never have a deadly confrontation with a bear. Some people carry shotguns or rifles and that's fine but realistically you will need to set it down at some point. Strange things seem to happen when you are relieving yourself or daydreaming to the sound of squirrels and birds. That's why the 44 mag revolver is so valuable in the woods. You're always wearing it.
Joshua McKim of Halfway fired 8 shots, from a 45 ACP Taurus PT1911 and killed a charging 400-pound black bear, May 28, 2008. [*J. Jacoby, Baker City Herald, June 4, 2008]
It can be done.
My choice would be the 44 Mag, but by the time I have my gun out, the charging bear could be 20 feet (7 yards) away.
How many accurate 44 mag rounds can you get off in about a second and a half?
45 ACP would shoot quicker out of my SW99 (9+1) or out of my 1911 Commander (8+1)...that is if the gun doesn't jam...had a dud recently...factory ammo, nice hot Federal FMJ, and since I've had my one dud, that will never happen again.
It can be done.
My choice would be the 44 Mag, but by the time I have my gun out, the charging bear could be 20 feet (7 yards) away.
How many accurate 44 mag rounds can you get off in about a second and a half?
45 ACP would shoot quicker out of my SW99 (9+1) or out of my 1911 Commander (8+1)...that is if the gun doesn't jam...had a dud recently...factory ammo, nice hot Federal FMJ, and since I've had my one dud, that will never happen again.
I voted before I knew it was for bear protection. Not many bears in Kansas. I have carry my 1911 in the woods. I did have to use it one day when I ran into a whole herd of deer and emptied my rifle at them. I filled all 5 of my tags that day. One with the .45
I would rather have more rounds of .45 for a charging bear than 6 of .44 mag.
I would rather have more rounds of .45 for a charging bear than 6 of .44 mag.
Pond James Pond
New member
OK, then!
Thanks for the input so far. Valuable insights and opinions!
I should point out that in the few years I have been here and been enjoying the natural beauty this country has to offer compared to other parts of W. Europe, I have never seen a bear and I don't think I have seen evidence of them, but they have been sighted by others in places I have previously been.
I also don't recall ever hearing of a bear attack.
I also don't want to be in a situation where I might harm an animal, but I am now in a situation where I have a weapon that I could rely on if things went awry: seems silly to not then carry it, especially as forest-carry presents fewer hassles for me than city-carry.
In other words this whole discussion is most likely never going to be more than an exercise in theory!
Seaman asked:
At the moment about 1: I have very little experience with my Ruger so far. Weight, trigger pull etc are all new to me. However, if I do aim, I know it is an accurate platform!! Follow-ups take an age!
Under pressure? Probably none! At most 1!! In a .45, possibly 2, at the very most, and neither the .44 nor .45 would be "alpha" score accurate!
Thanks for the input so far. Valuable insights and opinions!
I should point out that in the few years I have been here and been enjoying the natural beauty this country has to offer compared to other parts of W. Europe, I have never seen a bear and I don't think I have seen evidence of them, but they have been sighted by others in places I have previously been.
I also don't recall ever hearing of a bear attack.
I also don't want to be in a situation where I might harm an animal, but I am now in a situation where I have a weapon that I could rely on if things went awry: seems silly to not then carry it, especially as forest-carry presents fewer hassles for me than city-carry.
In other words this whole discussion is most likely never going to be more than an exercise in theory!
Seaman asked:
How many accurate 44 mag rounds can you get off in about a second and a half?
At the moment about 1: I have very little experience with my Ruger so far. Weight, trigger pull etc are all new to me. However, if I do aim, I know it is an accurate platform!! Follow-ups take an age!
Under pressure? Probably none! At most 1!! In a .45, possibly 2, at the very most, and neither the .44 nor .45 would be "alpha" score accurate!
PoorRichRichard
New member
I second what most here have said. 44 for Brown bears, .45 or my 9mm for Black bears/Mnt lions. That being said, the coyotes are what I usuallay look for in the foothills where I hike hunt, so I have a 12 gauge with multiple types of shell to choose from when hunting, and when hiking, I just started carrying a SA revolver in 22 Mag with a 9" barrel<<< looking forward to taking my first coyote with it in the coming weeks!
Lost Sheep
New member
Pardon my rambleing, but please read the links
2damnold4this (post 14) is exactly right. Seaman, too (post 28)
TenRing (post 27) outlines the second reason why.
Typically, a bear will avoid people. Sometimes they will make a bluff charge (depending on species). It is best to know the psychology of the bears in your area to be able to determine if shooting is the appropriate response to bear (apparent) aggression. Shooting a bear in self-defense is a good way to ruin a nice day in the woods. It opens up a world of paperwork, cleanup, skinning and packing out with the BEST outcome and a world of hurt with any other outcome.
Know your bears and the likelihood of having to shoot is minimized.
A shooting solution is best to avoid.
In the Northern tier (Alaska and Canada) bear spray has a better record of keeping humans safe in (non-hunting) bear/human conflicts than firearms. I carry bear spray in addition to my Ruger Super Redhawk and if only one, the spray.
The time required to place a stopping shot into a bear (close enough to be sure a shooting is required) is VERY short. 25 meters is a typical charge distance (further is not generally justifiable as a defensive shoot) and bears can run 40 to 55 kph (25-35 mph) virtually instantaneously from a standing start.
A bear can cover 25 meters in 1.8 seconds. Subtract from that, the time it takes you to recognize the threat, decide to shoot, present your firearm, aim and fire (hopefully in that order).
This guy is an experienced woodsman and had time for 2 (maybe 3, he couldn't remember) shots.
http://www.peninsulaclarion.com/stories/080709/out_478669517.shtml
http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/wildlife/bears/story/897940.html
and for a direct quote from the surviving party with pictures
http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/index.php/topic,179994.0.html
Friday, August 07, 2009
Soldotna mans brush with bear too close for comfort
By Joseph Robertia | Peninsula Clarion
It is not likely spray would have helped Greg, but it did these folks
http://www.adn.com/bearattacks/story/147318.html
Bear spray stops charging sow
SAVED: Couple hiking Peters Creek Trail used Counter Assault.
By CRAIG MEDRED
Anchorage Daily News
(04/18/08 16:04:12)
The most telling testimonial I have read is from this fellow in Montana who has had several encounters.
See the post by windwalker, about 2/3 of the way down the page
http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=51538&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=60
Bears are thick-skinned and heavily muscled. The 45 ACP is, from its inception, a round developed for shooting thin-skinned targets (people). A 230 grain solid at 850 fps, even 950 is no match for a 300 grain 44 slug at 1200 fps to penetrate to vital organs, breaking bones or disrupting the nervous system.
By the way, even if you shred a bear's hear and lungs, he still can eat your lunch before he expires. Bears' heartbeats are that slow. 30 seconds of intense activity is well within a dying bear's ability and he can break both your legs and eat one arm in that length of time.
Sorry, I got onto a rant.
The best way to stop a bear who is intent on doing you harm is to disrupt his central nervous system (CNS) by breaking his spine or scrambling his brain. Second most effective is to break a shoulder bone, which will not stop him but might slow him down enough that you can take an aimed kill shot. Those are the only two recipes for success. All other solutions are gambles. (Spray on the other hand is easy to aim, highly discouraging, has a good track record and has only one real drawback, reloading in the field is not possible.)
For practice, get a soccer ball. Place it on the top of your backstop held in place with a piece of wood. Get 30 meters back from the ball and have a friend shoot the piece of wood out from under the ball. When the ball gets to 25 meters from you, see how many times you can hit the ball as it bounces toward you. Extra points if you can hit only the black spots.
Try it again with a good bear spray. Which spots you hit is of no consequence.
300 Grain flat points of hard cast lead penetrate well and break bone. But you really need upwards of 3,000 ft lbs of energy to get into a bear and 4,000 is better. But that energy level is hard to produce from a handgun. Any firearm capable of being carried in a holster is a weak compromise to a proper rifle or shotgun with good slugs.
I (and the links I have provided) have said my piece. Good luck. Use your 44 Mag in good health. It is an excellent round and you have an excellent revolver. My liking for the heavier loads is due to my proximity to larger bears (300 to 1,000 kg or 660 to 2200 lbs).
Lost Sheep
2damnold4this (post 14) is exactly right. Seaman, too (post 28)
TenRing (post 27) outlines the second reason why.
Typically, a bear will avoid people. Sometimes they will make a bluff charge (depending on species). It is best to know the psychology of the bears in your area to be able to determine if shooting is the appropriate response to bear (apparent) aggression. Shooting a bear in self-defense is a good way to ruin a nice day in the woods. It opens up a world of paperwork, cleanup, skinning and packing out with the BEST outcome and a world of hurt with any other outcome.
Know your bears and the likelihood of having to shoot is minimized.
A shooting solution is best to avoid.
In the Northern tier (Alaska and Canada) bear spray has a better record of keeping humans safe in (non-hunting) bear/human conflicts than firearms. I carry bear spray in addition to my Ruger Super Redhawk and if only one, the spray.
The time required to place a stopping shot into a bear (close enough to be sure a shooting is required) is VERY short. 25 meters is a typical charge distance (further is not generally justifiable as a defensive shoot) and bears can run 40 to 55 kph (25-35 mph) virtually instantaneously from a standing start.
A bear can cover 25 meters in 1.8 seconds. Subtract from that, the time it takes you to recognize the threat, decide to shoot, present your firearm, aim and fire (hopefully in that order).
This guy is an experienced woodsman and had time for 2 (maybe 3, he couldn't remember) shots.
http://www.peninsulaclarion.com/stories/080709/out_478669517.shtml
http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/wildlife/bears/story/897940.html
and for a direct quote from the surviving party with pictures
http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/index.php/topic,179994.0.html
Friday, August 07, 2009
Soldotna mans brush with bear too close for comfort
By Joseph Robertia | Peninsula Clarion
It is not likely spray would have helped Greg, but it did these folks
http://www.adn.com/bearattacks/story/147318.html
Bear spray stops charging sow
SAVED: Couple hiking Peters Creek Trail used Counter Assault.
By CRAIG MEDRED
Anchorage Daily News
(04/18/08 16:04:12)
The most telling testimonial I have read is from this fellow in Montana who has had several encounters.
See the post by windwalker, about 2/3 of the way down the page
http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=51538&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=60
Bears are thick-skinned and heavily muscled. The 45 ACP is, from its inception, a round developed for shooting thin-skinned targets (people). A 230 grain solid at 850 fps, even 950 is no match for a 300 grain 44 slug at 1200 fps to penetrate to vital organs, breaking bones or disrupting the nervous system.
By the way, even if you shred a bear's hear and lungs, he still can eat your lunch before he expires. Bears' heartbeats are that slow. 30 seconds of intense activity is well within a dying bear's ability and he can break both your legs and eat one arm in that length of time.
Sorry, I got onto a rant.
The best way to stop a bear who is intent on doing you harm is to disrupt his central nervous system (CNS) by breaking his spine or scrambling his brain. Second most effective is to break a shoulder bone, which will not stop him but might slow him down enough that you can take an aimed kill shot. Those are the only two recipes for success. All other solutions are gambles. (Spray on the other hand is easy to aim, highly discouraging, has a good track record and has only one real drawback, reloading in the field is not possible.)
For practice, get a soccer ball. Place it on the top of your backstop held in place with a piece of wood. Get 30 meters back from the ball and have a friend shoot the piece of wood out from under the ball. When the ball gets to 25 meters from you, see how many times you can hit the ball as it bounces toward you. Extra points if you can hit only the black spots.
Try it again with a good bear spray. Which spots you hit is of no consequence.
300 Grain flat points of hard cast lead penetrate well and break bone. But you really need upwards of 3,000 ft lbs of energy to get into a bear and 4,000 is better. But that energy level is hard to produce from a handgun. Any firearm capable of being carried in a holster is a weak compromise to a proper rifle or shotgun with good slugs.
I (and the links I have provided) have said my piece. Good luck. Use your 44 Mag in good health. It is an excellent round and you have an excellent revolver. My liking for the heavier loads is due to my proximity to larger bears (300 to 1,000 kg or 660 to 2200 lbs).
Lost Sheep
Sparks1957
New member
Know your bears and the likelihood of having to shoot is minimized
Absolutely. These seemingless endless threads about bear defense are usually posted by folks who have never seen a bear in the woods, and probably never will.
I'm much more worried about two-legged predators than I am about bears.
Shadi Khalil
New member
James,
I wouldn't worry to much about what the instructor said. He makes a good point in what's become an endless debate over bear defense. The .44 mag is a very versatile gun, not only in caliber but application as well. I personally would much rather have the Ruger with 6 .44 mag's then something like a Glock 21 while in the woods.
I wouldn't worry to much about what the instructor said. He makes a good point in what's become an endless debate over bear defense. The .44 mag is a very versatile gun, not only in caliber but application as well. I personally would much rather have the Ruger with 6 .44 mag's then something like a Glock 21 while in the woods.
Winchester_73
New member
My instructor seemed a little dubious. His view was that .44 was OK but not the best and if it came to it, he felt that 10 .45ACPs from a hi-cap semi would be his choice against a bear, then my six .44s.
The problem I see with your genius instructor is that he is ASSUMING that he will have a chance to fire more than one shot and I suppose, he is also assuming he will get over 6 shots off, because your ruger holds 6 (so the capacity advantage is after the 6th shot). Thats a big big assumption IMO. Its pretty much a given (although not everytime) that you will certainly have 1 shot on the bear, because before that shot, you have somewhat an upper hand because the bear can't know what you have in store for him. I accept at times someone could draw the gun and be mauled right then as well.
If you have ONE SHOT, you better make it count, so its the 44 magnum everytime. You could load the redhawk with buffalo bore stuff that is way beyond even a 45 + p. Perhaps your instructor would have a point if it was a herd of stray dogs, or something that couldn't fight back, but thats not the case in the scenario.
Its funny how so few people can appropriately choose a caliber for a given task. 300 magnum for whitetail, 45 acp for CCW, and now the opposite, 45 acp for bear? ! Does he carry a 22lr for CC? (I know some do, but I would not for the same reason, what if you get one shot).
Pond, you got the right thing, IMO.
Single Six
New member
Where I live, we have black bears. If going into the woods is in my plans, I take my .44 Redhawk, not my Ruger P-90 .45 ACP....and frankly, I err on the side of caution and also take my 870, loaded with a mix of slugs and .00 Buck. That said, I'll play devil's advocate here and mention the Zanesville, Ohio incident from 2011, in which the owner of a small zoo released all of his animals before killing himself. These included tigers, lions, and also bears. One of the responding deputies was charged by a bear [I forget what kind it was], and promptly dropped the predator in it's tracks with a head shot....from his .40 duty pistol.
A 357 magnum blows away a 45 ACP for bear defense and a 44 magnum blows away a 357 magnum. Buffalo Bore makes a hard cast bear load for each round. Here are the numbers on those including the 10mm hard cast round which is on par with the 357 magnum:
45 ACP: 255 grain bullet at 925 fps = 484 lbs of muzzle energy
10mm: 220 grain bullet at 1200 fps = 703 lbs of muzzle energy
357 magnum: 180 grain bullet at 1400 fps = 783 lbs of muzzle energy
44 magnum: 340 grain bullet at 1478 fps = 1649 lbs of muzzle energy (Ruger handguns only)
Your instructor is an idiot. You'd probably get off 3 shots at most against an attacking bear, and 1 or 2 is more likely. I carry a 357 magnum when camping, but I'd definitely feel more comfortable with a 44 magnum. I can see the case for a 10mm if you want an autoloader, but not a 45 ACP.
45 ACP: 255 grain bullet at 925 fps = 484 lbs of muzzle energy
10mm: 220 grain bullet at 1200 fps = 703 lbs of muzzle energy
357 magnum: 180 grain bullet at 1400 fps = 783 lbs of muzzle energy
44 magnum: 340 grain bullet at 1478 fps = 1649 lbs of muzzle energy (Ruger handguns only)
Your instructor is an idiot. You'd probably get off 3 shots at most against an attacking bear, and 1 or 2 is more likely. I carry a 357 magnum when camping, but I'd definitely feel more comfortable with a 44 magnum. I can see the case for a 10mm if you want an autoloader, but not a 45 ACP.