Has Sig Quality Gone Down?

Would you still buy a new Sig?

  • Yes

    Votes: 82 64.6%

  • No

    Votes: 45 35.4%
  • Total voters
    127
  • Poll closed .
Has Sig Quality Gone Down?
Click to expand...
.IMHO....no..... :)

SigTgt200SWC-1_zps8eb6a1d5.jpg
Sig185Tgt-Pistol-1_zps4a6fb723.jpg
 
sig's staple product lines are still fantastic. like every other manufacturer in every industry in the country, they are now offering "value" products. this means they cut corners to offer a more affordable option to those people who can't drop $800-1200 on a handgun. if you want classic sig quality, stick with a p220, p226, p228/9. if you want to save a few bucks and sacrifice some quality, buy a sp2022 or p250.
 
My dealer had brought in some stainless P220's that were supposedly from the USA custom shop about 4 years ago. Two of the P220's, we were not able to rack the slide back. So there was NO QC at all.
 
I have a C3 manufactured February 2014, and while I have not fired more than maybe 200 rounds through it, I have had no problems with it. It is an excellently made gun. My brother owns a Sig Arms P226 and it is superb. Any manufacturer can become victim of stacking tolerances, but quite generally Sig is a good brand to stick with.
 
Well, 14 years ago, I decided the only 2 guns worth having as CWs were the Sig P220C and the HKUSPC. The HK won out only because the sights cleared faster, while picking up quickly and aiming. I was wrong in everything, as I no longer carry the HK, it just wasn't for me, even though I don't carry a Sig, either. But, I'd like to have one of their P238s, though. Nice little BUG. I'd still look at Sigs, I guess.
 
If you are worried about a returning de-cocker lever "dinging" the frame, maybe an aluminum framed gun with an anodized finish wasn't the best choice for you in the first place.........

It that little lever didn't have the range of additional motion to move up into the frame and gouge it, it would be in a position where it would be stressed to possibly snap off if snagged.


Some more about Sig in general, and expectations.....

Sig did in fact have some transitionary years where quality declined. They started off as a german no-nonsense company that was primarily concerned exclusively with police and military sales. For two decades they hardly had any designs outside of their core military and police style pistols. somehow over the past 15 years they became a premium or even "luxury" pistol while still retaining their original core design that essentially was a sheet metal and alloy economy pistol designed to undercut other low-bidders. It's no surprise that perceptions and reality don't mix of someone wasn't around sigs during their rise. The bottom line is that sigs were always supposed to be cheap guns, and the glocks of their day, and a little lever return gouge wasnt a problem for their contracts. If Sig was to eliminate the current decocker arrangement, it wouldn't be a sig anymore. In reality, your exactly what you paid for, you just don't know it because you didn't quite know what a sig Sauer P-series really was. I love their newer bejeweled and bedazzled variants, but they are so far off from what Sig was that it's almost amusing.


Any good hand gunner will recognize the wear marks and appreciate the shooter and the gun as someone that actually shoots their guns and develops their skills. The nitpicking only highlights who is a collector.
 
Is there really a debate here about Sig quality? There is a reason only two pistols successfully completed the Army trials: Beretta and Sig. And then, of course, politics aside, the ultimate issue is cost. Glock is known for reliability and is a good gun at a lower cost. Hence, many police agencies went with Glock. But not all. I have carried and shot all kinds of handguns and without question that Sig quality is unmistakable. And, yes, we are dealing with things mechanical when speaking of semi-autos. And there definitely will be malfunctions along the way if you shoot long enough. That goes without saying regardless of price or quality or make. There's a good reason we all train on clearing malfunctions. For example, the P320 has a scalloped butt so that in the event of a double feed the magazine can be easily accessed for stripping it out. So the manufacturer too knows of the inevitability of a malfunction. However, if a gun is malfunctioning with any regularity get rid of it! But the better the gun the less likely a malfunction when you need it most.
 
The bottom line is that sigs were always supposed to be cheap guns, and the glocks of their day, and a little lever return gouge wasnt a problem for their contracts.
Click to expand...

I think the argument was the gouge was either nonexistent or less prominent in the days of yore.

Any good hand gunner will recognize the wear marks and appreciate the shooter and the gun as someone that actually shoots their guns and develops their skills. The nitpicking only highlights who is a collector.
Click to expand...

Well, when a pistols easily costs $850 and up a little belly aching is to be expected. Like you said, SIG has become a luxury brand now to an extent. That said, that isn't what I'd call wear from honest use per se. If my car's wipers cut scratches into my windshield, even were they minor and didn't impact my vision, I'd probably chalk that up to an issue with design or quality control. Since this doesn't seem to have been as noticeable a problem in the past (and that's just hearsay really) then the argument would tend towards quality control.
 
Yes, there is a debate about Sig's quality over time.


They have changed production methods, moved production overseas, instituted a global supply chain, diversified well outside of core competencies and expertise with new product lines and created entirely new segments, and have had numerous management changes while trying to profit in a highly competitive and fickle market. Now they have to deal with the problem of the German side having to stop exports to the USA, which is a major problem with their high end X-series and 210 legends as well as some other definitive products that set sig apart from the competition.

Any company that even bites off half of what sig has will have quality control issues. Their success will be determined by how they respond to the issues, as well as how innovative they are being.


I think the General concensus is that Sig's worst days are behind them, but they are still not quite sure what they will be as a manufacturer in 2015, or 2025, but they are certainly more defined than what they were in 2010. The quality control debate will go on for a long time, especially as folks are emotionally invested into what they deem to be the "best" by their standards, regardless of the validity of how they arrived at their conclusions. On the other hand, sig will produce a majority of happy customers regardless of what they do. No matter how good they get, there will be plenty of lemons causing batches of sour grapes just due to Sig's volume of sales.
 
I Like My Sigs

I've had 2 P228's, selling the first was the biggest dumb@$$ move of my life. The second P228 is one of my best guns, and it ain't going nowhere. My P225 is still one of the best shooting subcompact 9mm's I know of, the S&W 3913TSW is the other. I paid $319.00 for it about 7yrs. ago, when nobody wanted these W.German police turn-ins, I have the German language manual for it. My P220 got traded for an HK45 that I think is a better service pistol, but a P227 is definitely in my future. My P226 .40S&W is my remaining .40, it shoots beautifully. My M11-A1 is my other EDC along with my HK P30 V3. I've been very lucky with my SIG pistols!
 
Last edited:
Steel frame Sigs like the P226/229/220, P238, etc. have very few problems. When I was selling guns (admittedly, it has been almost 2 years), we had just butt-tons of P250s and P2022s coming back. It got to the point that I hated selling those models. Very rarely did I see any legitimate issues with the steel frame models though. Sig has come out with multiple new polymer models recently that I have not tried or heard a lot of first-hand feedback on, so they may have improved their game a lot. I'm not sure why they do (or did) have such a huge quality difference between the polymer and steel framed options (and I'm not a "plastic gun" hater- I generally prefer polymer framed pistols), but it was really apparent to me as the person responsible for returning all warranty repair issues to the factories.

I would not hesitate to buy a new steel frame Sig because in my personal experience, they are very well made and reliable guns. I would never spend money on one of their polymer guns though- even if they're better now I'm a flawed human and I have trouble getting over the terrible quality I saw in those models before.
 
I only own 1 Sig, the Sig X-Five Competition in 9mm. It's the same frame as the level one, but without the adjustable trigger. It was made several years ago, yes made in Germany, and does not have a bottom rail (I don't like bottom rails on pistols)

It is by far the most accurate semi-auto I've ever shot. This is compared to a custom ported STI 2011; various 1911's, a Steyr GB; a Tanfoglio Stock 10mm, Ruger Mark II, Browning Hi-Power, CZ 75B, Glock 17, as well as to revolvers I've owned. There simply is no comparison.

I can't imagine owning a semi-auto that can out perform the Sig X-Five in terms of accuracy. Its simply a dream to shoot.
 
Yeah Tunnelrat, you're right, my bad. I got in the habit of saying "steel" just as the alternative to polymer, even when it is an alloy of some sort. It would probably be better to say "metal", but that brings to mind cruddy little pot metal .22 single actions that you can get for $100 and don't have a brand written on them...
 
Sadly I have to say "YES".
First of all I am a very critical person, and I would expect a $1000 sig to be near flawless.
I own a 226 Legion, 239, 938 and a 238. All are GREAT guns.
I decided to add a P225 A1 to my collection and have regretted it since day 1.
The FIRST and only real thing anyone who picks up the gun notices is that it is noisy. It sounds like a babies rattle. The slide cluncks forward and back, side to side.
A call to sig and I was told this is normal. They could pull any gun out of the display case and they all do it. But, it will shoot just fine. That is not okay to me though. I don't want a noisy sloppy gun.None of my other sigs do it, the 225's I looked at in the stores did not do it. None of the numerous handguns I own do it. Heck, I sold a CZ75 DPCR to buy the sig. A choice I am regretting.
After a second call to sig and a short video with volume and they had me send the gun back.
I am still waiting, but expect nothing more than disappointment with their response.
 
This 2015 thread just got resurrected, but I’ve added an M11-A1 and a P239 SAS Gen2 since that time, and I’m very pleased with both. If I had to compare build quality of the new production SIGs vs. the old production SIGs, the old production pistols are probably better, but the new ones are pretty darn good anyway.

You can say the same thing about S&W revolvers, if you have to have a LN pre-lock 686, you have to find one & pay a premium for it. Otherwise a new production 686 isn’t a bad thing to own & shoot!
 
I've had no reason to gripe about the two I've bought in the last 3 years: P226 Mk25 & a M11A1...great guns, well finished, accurate to < 2" at 25 yds with selected loads, and superbly reliable. As good 9mm's as I've ever owned.

As to customer service: a P290, a used gun when I bought it, with a dark front sight and light firing pin strikes...they fixed both on their dime. A 1911 RCS (the best carry 1911 I"ve ever owned) had a bbl. ramp that extended into the mag well...they fixed that and did a beautiful trigger job on their dime as well. Should they have caught it in the QC examination...yep, but they fixed it pronto. I had both of those guns back in my hands in less than two weeks.

As a company, they make a good/great product, and respond to customer problems in a timely manner. I appreciate that they're US made. I do have a factory nickle German made P220 that's as good as the P226 and M11 but not better....

YMMV, but from my viewpoint, they're as good a company as any, and for the money, they're better than most.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top