There's a degree of personal preference in this as well. If you like the P250 frame then you won't be bothered by that choice much, if you don't obviously you will. I like the grip; the only downside to the frame I see is it is shaped to allow for a hammer and that's why it forces the user's hand so far down. With the P320 being striker fired that isn't necessary and you end up with a bore axis higher than necessary. Hasn't seemed to stop Max Michel though, but that is likely more about the shooter than the gun.
Has Sig Quality Gone Down?
- Thread starter DoctorDeath
- Start date
There's a degree of personal preference in this as well. If you like the P250 frame then you won't be bothered by that choice much, if you don't obviously you will. I like the grip; the only downside to the frame I see is it is shaped to allow for a hammer and that's why it forces the user's hand so far down. With the P320 being striker fired that isn't necessary and you end up with a bore axis higher than necessary. Hasn't seemed to stop Max Michel though, but that is likely more about the shooter than the gun.
marine6680
New member
Sig considers the decocker thing to be part of the normal tolerances. It's functionally fine, but it makes a little ding in the frame.
Some people expect absolute perfection with every detail, and when their expectations do not align with the manufacturer's... well it leads to a few rants online.
And $1000 really isn't a lot anymore for a pistol... Not when custom pistols can get over $3000...
We are just spoiled by good quality polymer pistols that can cost much less... But h&k has polys that cost over $1000... So it's a wide range of prices out there. But many are happy with the $500 poly pistols from makers like glock and s&w. (and others)
I recently got a Springfield 1911 loaded model... the roll mark on the slide is shallow and not perfect. Due to the finish where the steel is polished, some of the roll mark is worn away. It's noticable, and at one point in my life it would have really bothered me, but it shoots fine and it doesn't bother me much... though it's hit and miss on whether or other I let something like that slide, as I can still be anal about little details.
Either way, the current Sigs are made well, so if one speaks to you, then get one.
I have a 226 scorpion that I love, and a 320 that I also enjoy.
Some people expect absolute perfection with every detail, and when their expectations do not align with the manufacturer's... well it leads to a few rants online.
And $1000 really isn't a lot anymore for a pistol... Not when custom pistols can get over $3000...
We are just spoiled by good quality polymer pistols that can cost much less... But h&k has polys that cost over $1000... So it's a wide range of prices out there. But many are happy with the $500 poly pistols from makers like glock and s&w. (and others)
I recently got a Springfield 1911 loaded model... the roll mark on the slide is shallow and not perfect. Due to the finish where the steel is polished, some of the roll mark is worn away. It's noticable, and at one point in my life it would have really bothered me, but it shoots fine and it doesn't bother me much... though it's hit and miss on whether or other I let something like that slide, as I can still be anal about little details.
Either way, the current Sigs are made well, so if one speaks to you, then get one.
I have a 226 scorpion that I love, and a 320 that I also enjoy.
Technosavant
New member
WVSig said:
Here's the thing... those are the Sigs I own.
2x 1911 (one is the small Ultra model... small 1911s tend to be especially problematic)
4x P250 and conversion kits
1x P238
1x P938
Of them all, the only thing I DON'T like is the heavy trigger pull on the P938 (but not enough to dislike the gun). They've all been solid- every last one. Have they done a little beta testing on the buyers? Sure... I think the early P250s are an example of that. But for the most part they've worked things out and their products are every bit as solid, if not more so, than most other makers. It may not be wise to be the first customer for a new model, but even Glock has run into that issue (with their Gen 4).
Technosavant said:
If it was just the P250 or just the GSR I would agree with you that everyone has teething problems with new models but Sig has had issues with every single new design not based on an older P series design that they brought out in the last decade.
Look back at the history on the Sig 1911 GSR. The original guns had Caspian slides and frames with Storm Lake Barrels. They had huge teething issues and the current guns resemble the original in name only.
The P238 went through 4 or 5 major changes before it became reliable. They at least learned from that before they put out the P238.
We all know the P250 was a complete disaster for the first 2 to 3 years of its existence.
I won't even go into the issue with the Mosquito.
I saw a sear spring pin fall out of a LNIB P227 the other day halfway through a 2 day training class. It is an example of a known issue on current guns. It is not wide spread but it has happened to more than a few people.
Again I am not saying that the do not make good guns but they I do believe for good or for bad they are not the same company they used to be. I am glad your guns are running well. I would say the vast majority of people are in the same boat as you are but they do not have same level of QC and build quality as they had in the past IMHO.
I know it does not effect the function of the gun but to me this is a clear example of the changes in build quality at Sig today vs the old days. They cannot even be bothered to finish the underside of the slide properly. They use hangers in the metal finishing process IIRC and they do not bother to finish the slide under the hook. Again won't cause the gun to fail but on a $800+ gun I would and do expect more.
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Uncle Malice
New member
uhhh.... All of my Sigs are recent productions and not one of them look like that on the inside of the slide. They are all fully finished... None that I have owned or handled have looked like that.
That looks like an issue specific toy your gun.
That looks like an issue specific toy your gun.
Went down during their flavor-of-the-month phase but seems to have recently gone back up. I got burned by the whole P220ST extractor debacle back in the mid-oughts (but eventually got it fixed and running cause I love the gun). Their DA/SA polymer series has always been a screaming best buy, the P-series seems to have bounced back and early word on the 320 seems to be fantastic.
But having gone through the previously mentioned P220ST debacle, I'll let the beta testers get a few years under their belts with the P320 before I seriously consider that or anything else from Sig again
But having gone through the previously mentioned P220ST debacle, I'll let the beta testers get a few years under their belts with the P320 before I seriously consider that or anything else from Sig again
I have P226 and P229 models in both old and new.
In the context the question was asked, I answered Yes, because I wouldn't hesitate to buy a new one.
But, I also want to say the used Sigs are a tremendous bargain. My old P226 is 16 years old, and will still outlast me.
They were tough then, and they are tough now.
In the context the question was asked, I answered Yes, because I wouldn't hesitate to buy a new one.
But, I also want to say the used Sigs are a tremendous bargain. My old P226 is 16 years old, and will still outlast me.
They were tough then, and they are tough now.
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To back this up, I have a thread where I talk about this somewhere in the past. It was years ago and it happened to me. SIG's attitude at the time was it was perfectly acceptable since it did not impede function. As WVsig said, I disagreed when pistols half the cost did not suffer the issue. Now that being said it was just the one and anything I have seen in the past 2-3 years seems much better. Right after Cohen took over there were years of a downtrend. I do believe, however, in the pistols I've owned and seen in the more recent years that SIG is correcting that trend.
When talking about firearms there is a delicate balance between not allowing the rose colored glasses to blind us to real issues and the tendency to let bad experiences sour us on a brand forever. In over 70 handguns if I had let bad experiences sour me on a brand I wouldn't own a single brand anymore.
Uncle Malice
New member
"For a while" when? I've had at least one Sig from every production year from 2008 to 2014 with some older ones. Never had anything like that on mine.
Uncle Malice said:
I have read quite a number of complaints about the "decocker dinging the frame" issue, but was not motivated to check my SIGs until today. Darned if my nearly decade-old P226ST doesn't have a ding in the frame above the front edge of the decocker button!
Several explanations I have read blame the problem on the height of the ridge on the bottom of the tab at the back of the decocker. I don't think that was my problem. The attached photo on the left shows the ridge on the tab on my decocker; even after thousands of decocking cycles, the only wear it shows is a slightly smoothed contact point. The front edge of the decocker that was actually dinging the frame appears to be the problem on my gun. The photo on the right shows the back of the decocker behind the button and the arrow points to a "high" spot in the curvature of the part.
I wrapped a strip of 600 grit sandpaper around a chopstick and after a few twists of the wrist the "high" spot was gone and the decocker no longer touches the frame.
Attachments
fiveninestexas
New member
I can't make any sweeping statements about Sig, but I will say that I bought a full-size 1911 "Nightmare" a year or so ago. She is a shooter deluxe. Factory ball, factory self-defense, and various rounds I've reloaded. To date, not one single FTF or FTE. But... the trigger was horrible for a 1911. Unbelievably gritty with a long pre-travel. I got a Wilson Combat trigger and spent hours stoning and polishing trigger mechanism parts. I also did the Series 80 to Series 70 conversion. The trigger action is now right up there with the finest 1911s I've had experience. She's my favorite truck/ranch gun now.
Would I buy another Sig? Probably not.
Would I buy another Sig? Probably not.
I would say I think current quality isn't quite what it once was. That's not to say that SIGs aren't great guns, because they still are. I don't get along with the trigger (breaks too far back in the pull) and balance (feels top heavy and ... flippy under recoil) compared to other guns, but I've got no issues with the quality.
I do have my eye on a P938 to serve as my occasional pocket gun.
I actually have come to prefer the P250/320 style of grip/feel to the more classic 220/226 feel. Different strokes for different folks and all that.
I do have my eye on a P938 to serve as my occasional pocket gun.
I actually have come to prefer the P250/320 style of grip/feel to the more classic 220/226 feel. Different strokes for different folks and all that.
I'd be disinclined to buy a new Sig. I have a German made P226 Sport Stock that's excellent in every way, but my experience with the GSR 1911 has colored me against Sig. I bought the gun when it first came out, and despite the fact that there were complaints about poor workmanship, my GSR was finished nicely and functioned perfectly. UNTIL, that is, the stainless steel external extractor broke after less than a 1000 rounds. I called Sig, but they couldn't care less, since the gun was more than a year old and "out of warranty". I bought an after market extractor, again in stainless steel, and it broke after less than 1000 rounds. I'm now on my third extractor, this time in blued carbon steel, which the manufacturer says will last several thousand rounds. We'll see...
Sig has to have known about the weakness of the extractor, but instead of trying to make it right, they chose instead to stiff their customers. As a result, I'll think long and hard before I buy a new Sig.
Sig has to have known about the weakness of the extractor, but instead of trying to make it right, they chose instead to stiff their customers. As a result, I'll think long and hard before I buy a new Sig.
Uh-Uh. At least not on the GSRs. Here's the "non-warranty" language from the Owner's Manual:
Essentially, Sig makes no warranties, but they condescend to repair any defects in materials or workmanship for a period of one year following purchase.
Clearly, the extractor on the GSR is defective in materials, workmanship or both. But Sig gets a pass if the defective extractor just happens to last more than a year after purchase. In my opinion, they should have owned up to the defective extractor and replaced it without charge. But they didn't, and that's why it's doubtful that I'll ever purchase another Sig.
That doesn't match the wording in the current P22X or P320 manuals at all (Page 42 in the pdf):
https://www.sigsauer.com/upFiles/CmsContent/documents/SIG_Classic_pistols_Manual.pdf
We may be in a situation of warranty changes in recent years. When did you buy the GSR?
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