Has anyone else ever seen these? Webley–Fosbery Automatic Revolver

It is my understanding that the Webley Fosbery revolvers got some interest from target shooters at the time, and that there was some success using them for target competition. This addresses the question of what advantages this design had. For rapid fire precision shooting, the semi-automatic single action trigger is a significant advantage over double action or over thumb cocking. I am not sure whether semi-autos pistols at that time were reliable or accurate enough to compete seriously at target shooting.
 
One of my "Holy Grail" guns. But out of my budget for a collector piece that most likely wouldn't be shot but a few times just to see it work.
 
When I read Webley I thought of it's autoloader, another clunky English design.

Having owned a few things in my life designed by Englishmen I feel their genius resides in other areas, with a few exceptions. But they may feel likewise about American designs.
 
Fosbery

James D Julia just auctioned off 20, thats right twenty, of these "awkward, gyrating, stupid mis-concieved designs", this past wknd. The lowest opening bid in the lot for a complete gun was....12k! (there was one 'parts' gun missing grips, hammer and some internal parts that's opener was 4.2k) One had a pre sale estimate of 100k. Guess all these maligned, poorly thought out guns are just a fluke of history!!
 
Actually, the big questions are...

1. Have you ever handled one to see how it operates?

2. Have you ever fired one?

I have.

While they are certainly a unique design, and firing one is an interesting experience because it's so different, they're not nearly as overwrought as you make them out to be.

Complicated, yes, but in some ways certainly no more or less complicated that a LOT of semi-automatic handgun designs that were coming out around the same time. You ever read anything about the Mars semi-automatics? Woof!

Useless?

Hardly.

The Webley Fosberry was at least as reliable as most semi-autos of the day if it was kept clean. Yes, it was likely more prone to issues it if got dirty. Its service in WW I trenches proved that.

Where the Webley Fosberry really shone, however, was on the target range. It was quite popular with some of the best shooters of the era, and for many years held numerous British NRA shooting records.
 
Just because a design is a failure does not mean the ones made are not valuable, probably because they were a failure. That was/is true of the Webley-Fosbery, Colt Patersons, S&W Volcanics, Gyrojet, etc. In fact, if one knew just what to buy and when, he could make a nice profit picking up failures ad selling them in a few years. (I did all right with a Gyrojet!)

Jim
 
I just came across this slow-motion .gif of a Webley Fosberry being fired.

It shows the unique action very nicely.

tumblr_nshhddnJAV1tpmgf1o1_500.gif
 
The Immediate Action drill is somewhat different, in that if it stops you have to pull the upper parts backward to rotate the cyl., otherwise the instinctive IA with a revolver (cock the hammer) probably won't do anything useful.
 
44AMP:

Explain this, please:

The entire upper recoiled on the lower frame, advancing the cylinder and cocking the hammer at the same time. Technically, it was recoil operated, not blowback
Click to expand...
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Definitely not short recoil, nor long recoil. Barrel and brechblock are not locked together. I'd say blowback?

Bob Wright
 
Mike Irwin---if a picture is worth a thousand words a nice video like the one you posted is priceless. Thanks.
 
Definitely not short recoil, nor long recoil. Barrel and brechblock are not locked together. I'd say blowback?
Click to expand...

I suppose it depends on how you want to describe it. Thanks Mike for the excellent video.

As you can see in the video, the entire top of the gun works just like the standard revolver, except instead of using energy from the trigger finger pulling through a DA, to rotate the cylinder and cock the hammer, it used a camming action worked by the recoil of the gun.

Long or short recoil depends on the distance the recoiling parts travel before unlocking to eject and reload the chamber. Clearly that exact definition doesn't apply well to the Webley-Fosberry action.

Neither does the usual definition of blowback, where a bolt/slide are "blown back" from a standing (fixed) barrel. Again, the revolver design just doesn't work like that, or have exactly comparable parts.

I would call it a recoil operated revolver. A semi automatic revolver would be apt as well, I think, though not in exactly the same way a semi automatic pistol functions.

An interesting and actually functional design, but with enough practical drawbacks that it was soon passed by better designs and became an evolutionary dead end in firearms development.

but they are so freakin COOL looking, ...:D
 
I am quite interested in the point that the action of this revolver falls outside the normal classifications of semi-automatic actions. I agree with giving it its own classification as a "recoil operated revolver."

I could not agree with describing this action as a type of blowback action. One of the defining factors of blowback actions is that the support for the cartridge is not locked in place, so the case is only supported by the weight of the bolt and the strength of the recoil spring. Therefore, if I had to place this action within the existing classes, I would describe it as a type of locked breech, since the rear of the case is fully supported throughout the firing sequence. However, I strongly prefer giving it its own classification.
 
Missing from the conversation is the value of fun. I will forgive ugly or clunky if the gun is fun to shoot. Just looking at Mike's video makes me think the fun quotient would be pretty high.
 
SF Gun Exchange used to have one displayed. They've been closed for over a decade since the anti-2A attitude of the city.
 
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