handguns that made history...

So, I wasn't really paying attention to the fact that this is handguns that changed history when I posted.
That makes it much less odd that nobody else thought of LHO's rifle.

my bad.

Wasn't the fact that L. H. Oswald ordered the Carcano rifle he used to assassinate JFK through the mail the source for some gun control legislation?

Sort of a double whammy.

The image from Wikipedia is below.
Wikipedia being open source, I'm not sure how it falls within the copyright policy, but feel free to delete the photo if it's an issue.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5d/CarcanoRifleNARA.gif



Being gun enthusiasts we should try to come up with more examples of guns that positively affected history.
It's harder to come up with specific examples of single guns - the nature of "lone gunmen" being what it is - but there must be a few out there.
 
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Vt.birdhunter said:
I had always heard it was a Browning 1900 in .32 ACP and the pistol was never recovered.
James K said:
Nope. An American gun writer, for reasons unknown, described the Sarajevo gun as a 1900 Browning; that was not true.
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FWIW James' story coincides with the recent accounts I've read.

The confusion has been attributed to the fact that the surviving court documents apparently don't go into great detail about the gun, describing it simply as "Browning serial number 19074" or something similar. Princip was immediately tackled and arrested by a policeman who witnessed the shooting, and his co-conspirators and their weapons were quickly identified and tracked down; consequently, the providence of the assassination pistol was not seriously disputed at the time, so the prosecutors apparently did not find it necessary to go into great detail. However, after the pistols subsequently vanished for decades, the lack of clear documentary evidence led to some incorrect assumptions by historians.
dayman said:
Wasn't the fact that L. H. Oswald ordered the Carcano rifle he used to assassinate JFK through the mail the source for some gun control legislation?
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Yes, but the JFK assassination has generally been credited as the inspiration for the 68 GCA provisions prohibiting non-FFL's from mail-ordering cheap milsurp rifles. (To be more specific, I believe that the importation of milsurp rifles was actually completely banned for some time, but this restriction was later relaxed.)

The RFK assassination is generally credited with inspiring the restrictions on cheap imported small-caliber handguns. As I understand it, numerous US gunmakers and even some importers of pricier handguns were quite complicit in writing the restrictions, and they were also supported by some factions within the American pro-gun community; the gun-rights movement was much more ideologically fragmented in 1967-68 than it is today.
 
Wasn't the fact that L. H. Oswald ordered the Carcano rifle he used to assassinate JFK through the mail the source for some gun control legislation?
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Sort of.

The Gun Control Act of 1968 did away with mail order of firearms.

Just to keep this on topic (handguns) - - Oswald ordered a S&W Victory Model .38spl via mail order also.
 
In regards to the Carcano and Oswald . . . . am I right that that particular rifle was ordered through Klein's in Chicago? (If I remember correctly, Kleins was a frequent advertiser in the gun mags in those days - or am I wrong on this?) Not that it makes a whole lot of difference - just got to thinking about it.
 
I think you are right, that is exactly how I remember it.

I also recall wandering, as a child, through Klein's downtown and looking at surplus rifles in barrels, and the smell of old canvas and leather.
 
Mauser c96 broomhandle: assassination of yugoslavias's King Alexander in Marseilles in 1934. First 'zapruder' film, as assassination caught by movie cameraman for some newsreel company?
 
How about the C96 Broomhandle carried by the young LT Churchill?

Churchill credits that pistol with saving his life, and had he died as a young LT, the history of both WWI and WWII would have been much different.
 
Although I do understand the focus of this post I would ask everyone to remember some facts.

Guns don't kill people, people kill people.
In the EXACT same way guns never make history. People do.

The left is very good at getting us to respond to erroneous statements and to answer the wrong questions.

Being drawn into such a mindset (that mindless objects can change history) is the foundation for our opponents attempts to outlaw our guns.
 
Here's another candidate, although not as influential as my first....

Perhaps not a moment that sent history on a different path, but a historical moment all the same.

I have tried to find confirmation online, but have failed and so only have my memory to rely on (:eek:), but I believe the M1911 was the gun used by the highest ranking allied officer to shoot an enemy in action during WW2, in the hands of Mjr Gen Roy Urquhart of the Paratroop Regiment 1st Airbourne in Arnhem during the ill-fated Operation Market Garden.
 
OK, now I'll have to go check (and a good excuse for watching A Bridge Too Far, ..again..:D).

Urquhart's gun could have been a 1911A1, although I'm thinking maybe a Browning Hi Power. This is actually worth a little bit of research, as General Officers get to carry pretty much what ever they feel like, despite what their "official" sidearm is.

A quick check of one source says widespread issue of the Hi Power to British Airborne units began after Market Garden. A 1911A1 (supplied by the US) is possible, and another possibility is a 1911, in .455 Webley.

The gun used by Sean Connery in the movie is identified as a "1911 possibly in .455 Webley", and not as a 1911A1 .45ACP.

The .455 Webley automatic was adopted in 1912 by the Royal Navy, and was possibly used to some degree by other branches as well. Not the same cartridge as the .455 Webley revolver round, despite nearly the same name.

The .455 Webley automatic has a case very similar to the .45ACP, but is semi-rimmed, and slightly shorter (0.02"). Specs are a 224gr bullet @ 700fps.

Some 1911s in .455 Webley automatic were supplied to Great Britain during/after WW I. Some 1911A1s (.455) were supplied during WW II.

That's as far as I'm going right now, I haven't had my coffee yet....
 
(and a good excuse for watching A Bridge Too Far, ..again..).
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It is a good film, isn't it...

There was a spate of great films about that period in history whose quality doesn't seem to be replicated very often these days. (Stalingrad, The Longest Day, etc...)
 
President William McKinley was shot with a .32 Iver Johnson revolver, he died of gangrene just over a week later. Teddy Roosevelt was VP at the time, and he went on to become a President that ended up on Mount Rushmore. And he often carried a Colt .45 while in office.

The story of Roosevelt finding out about McKinley's shooting is amazing, he was hiking in the Adirondacks and had to be run down and informed by a Park Ranger. Post #8 here has some great family related history on this topic.
 
Sergeant York captured 132 prisoners, and won the Congressional Medal of Honor with what most believe was a 1911. This most likely contributed to both the length of service for the 1911, and it's ubiquitous nature in handguns.
 
While Sgt. York's tremendous feat certainly added to the legend of the .45 Auto, I doubt it had any actual effect on the long service life of the 1911/1911A1.

I would consider the longevity of the 1911A1 as due to a combination of military attitude and supply, as well as the times.

The attitude part is a combination of A) the handgun is not considered a primary combat weapon, and B) the 1911A1 pistol and cartridge had a long and proven track record of working well enough.

We bought a lot of .45s in WWII. Enough so that the last military purchases of 1911s were in 1945, and despite Korea, Vietnam, and general service issue needs, there were still enough .45s in the inventory to go around.

It may be a unique American trait, or it may not be, but with the .45 Auto, it was essentially a case of "if it ain't broke, it don't need fixin'". Also I think a degree of national pride figures in as well. No other nation (or at least none I can think of) had a pistol that successfully saw them through BOTH world wars, as well as later conflicts (Korea & Vietnam, etc.).

Since other nations didn't have large stocks of "successful" pistols like we did, they were much more prone to adopting a "new" (or newer) handgun, than we were.

Getting back to specific individual handguns that changed history, one notes that most of these changed history because of successful political assassinations, and interestingly these are virtually never carried out using what serious shooters or military people would consider the "best" guns for the job.

Certainly they were "good enough" to get the job done, one way or another, but then murder (political or not) isn't the same thing as self defense or combat.
 
interestingly these are virtually never carried out using what serious shooters or military people would consider the "best" guns for the job.
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very interesting point. Indeed it seems that most assassinations were done with handguns no one would actually take to the range for target or tactical shooting if anything better was at hand, not to mention the relatively weak calibers often used. The latter, as has already been stated, maybe documents the difference between lethality and stopping power.
 
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