Handgun Urban Legends/Myths/Rumors
- Thread starter ryan3465
- Start date
Mike Irwin
Staff
Bob, I believe that is true.
The Seventh Cavalry had not been issued Smith revolvers, which were, at the time of the battle, still in limited issue.
Being a western command, it is likely that the Seventh was still working on ammo loaded in 1873 or 1874.
The Seventh Cavalry had not been issued Smith revolvers, which were, at the time of the battle, still in limited issue.
Being a western command, it is likely that the Seventh was still working on ammo loaded in 1873 or 1874.
Mike Irwin
Staff
Bob,
I've found some information in some of the archaeological surveys that says that BOTH .45 Colt and .45 S&W cartridges were recovered from the Little Bighorn Battlefield.
Apparently .45 S&W ammo was making it to the troops by that time.
I've found some information in some of the archaeological surveys that says that BOTH .45 Colt and .45 S&W cartridges were recovered from the Little Bighorn Battlefield.
Apparently .45 S&W ammo was making it to the troops by that time.
Not a myth so much as a production goof, but...I have seen countless examples in movies where an actor/actress shoots a semi-auto empty, the slide is locked back, and...the firing continues. Or, alternately, both actor and adversary treat a locked-back semi-auto as though it's loaded and ready to go. I've also seen numerous examples of Foley errors where a single-action pistol has the hammer down, yet the actor pulls the trigger and the gun goes bang or click.
Pronounced names...
An interesting topic too would be how to correctly pronounce or label different firearm brands.
Some names like Ruger or Beretta or Colt are easy but a few names & brands like SIG(pronounced sig) Sauer(sour or sower) Styer(like the Styer AUG), Chippa, Franchi-SPAS, Heckler & Koch(Koch is spoken as coke not like former mayor Ed Koch
). HK is also the correct abbreviation not H&K as many mall ninjas & gun shop clerks say, 
.
Kahr is pronounced "car". Uzi is "eww-z".
Clyde
PS; fun fact, Uzi Gal the designer & inventor of the Uzi SMG did not want to name the weapon after himself. Uzi was the label the IDF armorers & crew gave the new sub machine gun.
An interesting topic too would be how to correctly pronounce or label different firearm brands.
Some names like Ruger or Beretta or Colt are easy but a few names & brands like SIG(pronounced sig) Sauer(sour or sower) Styer(like the Styer AUG), Chippa, Franchi-SPAS, Heckler & Koch(Koch is spoken as coke not like former mayor Ed Koch
). HK is also the correct abbreviation not H&K as many mall ninjas & gun shop clerks say, .Kahr is pronounced "car". Uzi is "eww-z".
Clyde
PS; fun fact, Uzi Gal the designer & inventor of the Uzi SMG did not want to name the weapon after himself. Uzi was the label the IDF armorers & crew gave the new sub machine gun.
Microgunner
New member
The .22lr is the deadliest cartridge in the world.
Back on the .45 revolver cartridges. The first SAA was delivered to the Army in 1873. The first Schofields were not delivered until 1875, so for some period the ammunition was .45 Colt; it was Benet-primed, made by Frankford. (The first production began on Benet primed .45 Rifle ammunition in September 1873.)
Probably in anticipation of the adoption of the Schofield, Frankford was issued a production order for the shorter cartridge on August 20, 1874. That ammunition was also Benet primed and continued that way until July 1882 when the first copper-case Boxer-primed cartridges were made.
So from late 1874 on, no .45 Colt ammunition was made or issued by the Army. AFAIK, no contracts were let for either cartridge by the Army. (At that time, primarily as a cost saving measure, just about all the ammunition used by the Army was made at Frankford.)
So it would seem that any cartridges (revolver or rifle) used by the Army at Little Big Horn in 1876 were Benet-primed; recent issue would probably have been .45 Army (.45 Schofield), though it is possible that some older .45 Colt cartridges were used.
IIRC, there was a minor stir created some years ago by an archaeologist who claimed to have found empty .45 rimfire cartridges at LBH with the centers dented by firing pins. He built this into a conspiracy theory with someone issuing the Army rimfire cartridges for center fire rifles! He never seemed to explain how those "rimfire" cartridges were fired.
Jim
Probably in anticipation of the adoption of the Schofield, Frankford was issued a production order for the shorter cartridge on August 20, 1874. That ammunition was also Benet primed and continued that way until July 1882 when the first copper-case Boxer-primed cartridges were made.
So from late 1874 on, no .45 Colt ammunition was made or issued by the Army. AFAIK, no contracts were let for either cartridge by the Army. (At that time, primarily as a cost saving measure, just about all the ammunition used by the Army was made at Frankford.)
So it would seem that any cartridges (revolver or rifle) used by the Army at Little Big Horn in 1876 were Benet-primed; recent issue would probably have been .45 Army (.45 Schofield), though it is possible that some older .45 Colt cartridges were used.
IIRC, there was a minor stir created some years ago by an archaeologist who claimed to have found empty .45 rimfire cartridges at LBH with the centers dented by firing pins. He built this into a conspiracy theory with someone issuing the Army rimfire cartridges for center fire rifles! He never seemed to explain how those "rimfire" cartridges were fired.
Jim
Mike Irwin
Staff
".45 rimfire cartridges at LBH"
The only ".45 caliber" rimfire in production at that time would have been the .46 Remington series of cartridges.
It's possible that someone at the LBH had a .46 Remington Short conversion of the Model 1858 Remington Army revolver.
Remington produced (under license from S&W) several thousand conversions, some of which were supposedly issued to the 9th US Cavalry, the famed Buffalo Soldiers, during their participation in the Indian Wars.
But... at the time of the Little Big Horn, the Buffalo Soldiers were in the southwest fighting the Apache.
The only ".45 caliber" rimfire in production at that time would have been the .46 Remington series of cartridges.
It's possible that someone at the LBH had a .46 Remington Short conversion of the Model 1858 Remington Army revolver.
Remington produced (under license from S&W) several thousand conversions, some of which were supposedly issued to the 9th US Cavalry, the famed Buffalo Soldiers, during their participation in the Indian Wars.
But... at the time of the Little Big Horn, the Buffalo Soldiers were in the southwest fighting the Apache.
Sam Colt was left-handed....
For many years, I'd heard that Samuel Colt was a lefty,
.
That's part of why the SAA .45 revolver is designed that way.
I also heard that Colt was instructed to design firearms that could be reloaded quickly under combat conditions or in the saddle of a moving horse.
CF
For many years, I'd heard that Samuel Colt was a lefty,
.That's part of why the SAA .45 revolver is designed that way.
I also heard that Colt was instructed to design firearms that could be reloaded quickly under combat conditions or in the saddle of a moving horse.
CF
An old Coot once told me with a histrionic air of a knowledgeable old salt, that the Germans were so smart that they had put a left-hand twist in the rifling of their Mausers to compensate for the rotation of the Earth. I said to him, "do you mean for the Coriolis Effect"? He said, "no, the rifling."
Suicides & domestic violence...
Some other urban myths about firearms are that guns in the home lead to domestic violence & high rates of suicide.
This to me is like saying cars cause drunk driving.
Gun owners should secure their firearms & ammuntion when not in use and they should keep them clean & check them often to make sure they function but in fairness, most already do.
Clyde F
Some other urban myths about firearms are that guns in the home lead to domestic violence & high rates of suicide.
This to me is like saying cars cause drunk driving
.Gun owners should secure their firearms & ammuntion when not in use and they should keep them clean & check them often to make sure they function but in fairness, most already do.
Clyde F
I think it's funny seeing shoot outs on TV shows and movies in an enclosed area like a house, and the noise doesn't effect them at all and they'll even be whispering to each other afterwards. Yeah right! If that was me, I couldn't hear a thing besides the ringing in my ears! Also a lot of times they have mags that never go empty! Lol.
editing, action...
In fairness, many directors & film/TV editors trim scenes where actors reload weapons to speed up the scenes or increase the drama.
Action star; Arnold Schwartznegger in the 1980s said he constantly asked directors to show him reloading revolvers or rifles just to avoid the criticism.
One of the most impressive scenes of reloading I ever saw was the low budget cop film; Dead Bang. Actor Don Johnson(Nash Bridges, Miami Vice) played a LA Sheriff's Dept detective named Jerry Beck(based on Beck's real criminal investigations).
In a shoot-out scene, Johnson shot a Colt Python .357magnum dry then quickly reloaded it with HKS speedloaders. He was quick & smooth and looked like he trained a lot to make it look realistic.
Clyde
In fairness, many directors & film/TV editors trim scenes where actors reload weapons to speed up the scenes or increase the drama.
Action star; Arnold Schwartznegger in the 1980s said he constantly asked directors to show him reloading revolvers or rifles just to avoid the criticism.
One of the most impressive scenes of reloading I ever saw was the low budget cop film; Dead Bang. Actor Don Johnson(Nash Bridges, Miami Vice) played a LA Sheriff's Dept detective named Jerry Beck(based on Beck's real criminal investigations).
In a shoot-out scene, Johnson shot a Colt Python .357magnum dry then quickly reloaded it with HKS speedloaders. He was quick & smooth and looked like he trained a lot to make it look realistic.
Clyde
newfrontier45
Moderator
The .45S&W (Schofield) and .45Gov't was not the same cartridge. The .45Gov't was developed to function in both the Colt SAA and S&W revolvers. It was the length of the S&W with the smaller rim of the Colt. The S&W has a larger rim than the Gov't or the Colt, for more positive ejection in the S&W, which could cause issues with rim interference in the Colt SAA.
This myth irritates me as well. Obviously repeated by folks who don't realize Sam Colt was long dead when the SAA was designed. Or that the Army probably would've had it their way, rather than catering to 11% of the population. That the loading port was an evolution of the capping recess, which was a delicate operation intended to be accomplished with the right hand.
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"The [.45] S&W has a larger rim than the Gov't or the Colt, for more positive ejection in the S&W, which could cause issues with rim interference in the Colt SAA."
Nope. The .45 S&W, .45 Army, and the .45 Govt were all the same cartridge. There was no cartridge then made, either by FA or by commercial makers after the revolvers were sold as surplus, that would fit the Schofield that would not also fit the Colt. (I have been told that in recent years some cartridges called .45 S&W have been made for the modern Schofield reproductions and that those do not fit the SAA; I do not have one of those, and am referring here only to the cartridges of the 19th century.)
If you have a cartridge samples of a 19th century ".45 Govt" round that has too large a rim to fit the SAA, I would appreciate a picture of the headstamp and the measurements. (Please, pictures and measurements, not quotes from a book or magazine.)
Jim
Nope. The .45 S&W, .45 Army, and the .45 Govt were all the same cartridge. There was no cartridge then made, either by FA or by commercial makers after the revolvers were sold as surplus, that would fit the Schofield that would not also fit the Colt. (I have been told that in recent years some cartridges called .45 S&W have been made for the modern Schofield reproductions and that those do not fit the SAA; I do not have one of those, and am referring here only to the cartridges of the 19th century.)
If you have a cartridge samples of a 19th century ".45 Govt" round that has too large a rim to fit the SAA, I would appreciate a picture of the headstamp and the measurements. (Please, pictures and measurements, not quotes from a book or magazine.)
Jim