Handgun Urban Legends/Myths/Rumors

There have been some other myths mentioned here as fact, so those should be addressed.

First, the .38 Special was never issued with the .38 caliber service revolver; the cartridge was the .38 Long Colt. The Navy contract cartridges were made with a .376 diameter heel-type bullet; the Army cartridges, both contact and Frankford, were made with an inside lubricated .357" diameter bullet. In 1903, about serial number 200,000, the chambers of new revolvers were lengthened to accept .38 Special, but that ammunition was not issued to the military until many years later.

The gun that technically succeeded the .38 was the Model 1909 revolver, not the .45 caliber automatic pistol. While the Model 1909, a Colt New Service, was made for the .45 Colt, that ammunition was NOT issued with it; the Army found the small rim of the .45 Colt jumped the extractor, so Frankford Arsenal made the Model 1909 cartridge with a larger rim. That was the only ammunition issued with that revolver.

Some Model 1873 (SAA) revolvers were taken out of storage and sent to the Philippines, but the ammunition issued was the old .45 Army (aka the .45 Schofield), not the .45 Colt.

Jim
 
1. "common sense" gun control
2. Gun control laws save lives
3. Criminals obey gun control laws
4. "We don't want to take your guns"
5. Concealed carry laws cause "old West" shootouts in the streets
 
<<<Cops do get shot & some do get killed in the line of duty with firearms but what kills the most US law enforcement officers is; traffic accidents>>>


I would have guessed it was suicide.
 
Knock down power.

Or if you aren't racking the slide, your cocking the hammer on your Glock, XD, FNS, or any other hammerless pistols. And you have to rack your shotgun at least twice, once as you head towards the shootout, and once just before the shootout starts.
 
mrray13 said:
And you have to rack your shotgun at least twice...
Click to expand...

I was watching something the other day, I think it might have been Firefly, and in the middle of the tense discussion/scene, the shotgun was racked again... And a shell actually ejected. Probably a production accident, but I thought it was interesting.
 
"Guns aren't really that loud."

For example, a gun can be fired in a car, and moments later, there is conversation going on, rather than everyone saying "What?!?"

This isn't really an urban legend, but there's a pretty wide spread lack of appreciation of how painful it is when a gun is fired near you with no hearing protection...
 
Get Pax on the line as an interviewee.

I'd like to hear about women and semis. I know some older women who can't work a double action trigger and have trouble with cocking the SA trigger. They also have trouble with pulling back the slide (they can with Glocks though).
 
Chronology of the Moro Rebellion and US response.

US troops were armed with various model double action Colt revolvers chambered in the US standard .38 Long Colt.

After several notable failures of the cartridge to stop Moro warriors, the Army began pulling Colt 1873 revolvers out of stores. Additionally, the military purchased several thousand Colt Model 1902 revolvers in .45, but apparently none of those were issued to the Army, they were issued to the Philippines Constabulary.

The cartridge that was issued was apparently not the .45 Long Colt, but the shorter-cased .45 Smith & Wesson, which had become the defacto standard around 1876 when the military purchased several thousand S&W No. 3 revolvers.

There are some claims that the Army issued No. 3 revolvers to troops in the Philippines, but there's convincing evidence that all such revolvers had been disbursed to state Guard Units (or sold on the surplus market) some years prior to the Moro Rebellion.

Revolvers in .45-cal. did not completely replace the .38 Colt revolver, as there apparently weren't enough to go around, so emphasis was placed on giving them to units that were actually in the area of the Moro uprising.

The .45 ACP, as someone noted, NEVER [edit in, see my next post, this may not be correct] served during the Moro uprising. The uprising served only to cement the military's desire to have its new semi-auto in .45, not a smaller caliber.

What is often overlooked in the rush to hail the .45 as the greatest thing ever is that, against Moro warriors, it was NOT a sure thing either. It was just surer than the .38.

Also not a sure thing in stopping a determined Moro warrior was the .30-40 Krag.

About the ONLY weapon in friendly hands in the Philippines that had a good chance of stopping a Moro?

A load of buckshot from one of the several thousand Winchester Model 1897 shotguns that was sent to the Philippines. Most were earmarked for Constabulary use, but some found their way into the hands of the troops.

As for the .38 Special, it never served in any official capacity with the military in the Philippines, but a few might have found their way there in the hands of officers as personal weapons.
 
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A myth that a lot of Americans seem to believe you can't have handguns or firearms of any sort in all of UK.
 
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There's always the variety of myths and rumors that swirl around what model revolver was actually used by Harry Callahan in the Dirty Harry movie. You'll find those who claim that the production company couldn't get Model 29s at that time, so used the .41 Magnum M57 instead, or they used the .45 Colt M25 because it would chamber the "standard" .45 caliber blanks used in Hollywood at the time. Or that the barrel length was actually 8-3/8", or 6, or maybe it was 6-1/2.

Searching on "Dirty Harry Model 29" over at the S&W Forum produces a lot of interesting reading, some of it pretty hilarious. For the record, the (two, I believe) guns used were in fact Model 29s with 6-1/2" barrels according to one of the writers, John Milius, who now owns one of the guns (maybe the only one) and has it on display at the NRA Museum. Some of the stills for the movie look like they may have used the longer barrel, but that's not clear either.

There's also a body of lore about [alleged] inconsistencies in the movie - cocked vs. uncocked hammers at different times in the same scene, pinned vs. unpinned barrels and the like. Not unusual for movies generally, but more interesting to most of us here because they tend to involve guns and their use. And don't even get me started on the whole "Light Special" controversy . . .
 
And now, Mike Irwin, I send my thanks to you as well.

I had most of this piecemeal, but occasionally the .38 Special would get brought up. I always figured it was confusion/misunderstanding as to which .38 it was. I knew that the 1873 revolvers were brought back out, didn't know to what extent. Knew, and really know, nothing of the .30-40 Krag, other than it was the predecessor to the 1903. Never knew or considered the '97s role, though I knew they were used by the military.

Hope I keep learnin' something new every day. Again, thanks to all.
 
Hum...

Here's something interesting I just learned...

I thought the Moro Uprising was quelled by 1906.

Apparently the US considers it to have ended in 1913.

It's very possible that some M1911 Colt semiautos DID see service in the last days of the Moro Uprising.
 
The myth is that the Army used the cartridge we call the .45 Colt in the Single Action Army revolver. Not true. Except for a short period in 1874-75, the U.S. Army NEVER issued .45 Colt ammunition. Never.

When the S&W Schofield was adopted, Frankford Arsenal set up to make the .45 Army (it is called by several names, including .45 Schofield). It has the same rim diameter as the .45 Colt but with a shorter length so it will fit in the either cylinder. From then until the end of the SA era, FA made ALL the ammunition issued to the Army and it was all the .45 Army, not .45 Colt.

So all those troopers who rode to the rescue of the settlers (at least in the movies) were firing .45 revolvers, but not with .45 Colt ammunition.

Jim

Edited to add: For more confusion on the Colt Army and Navy revolvers, ones made after 1903 had the chambers drilled through and will accept .38 Special (and also .357 Magnum - not recommended!).

Jim
 
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James K:

There have been some other myths mentioned here as fact, so those should be addressed.

First, the .38 Special was never issued with the .38 caliber service revolver; the cartridge was the .38 Long Colt. The Navy contract cartridges were made with a .376 diameter heel-type bullet; the Army cartridges, both contact and Frankford, were made with an inside lubricated .357" diameter bullet. In 1903, about serial number 200,000, the chambers of new revolvers were lengthened to accept .38 Special, but that ammunition was not issued to the military until many years later.

The gun that technically succeeded the .38 was the Model 1909 revolver, not the .45 caliber automatic pistol. While the Model 1909, a Colt New Service, was made for the .45 Colt, that ammunition was NOT issued with it; the Army found the small rim of the .45 Colt jumped the extractor, so Frankford Arsenal made the Model 1909 cartridge with a larger rim. That was the only ammunition issued with that revolver.

Some Model 1873 (SAA) revolvers were taken out of storage and sent to the Philippines, but the ammunition issued was the old .45 Army (aka the .45 Schofield), not the .45 Colt.

Jim
Click to expand...


You took the words right out of my mouth!

Bob Wright
 
O.K. Confirm this or contradict: I've heard of the copper cased Benet primed .45 Colt ammunition retrieved from the Custer battlefield. True or not?

Bob Wright
 
Bullet damage, such as a perp in a movie being shot with a 9mm and it creating a fist sized hole in the chest for gory effect.
 
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