Had To Draw Down This Morning!
- Thread starter Wildalaska
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Good job
Now I've got buddies who say " If I draw my gun, I'm going to shoot, that's the only reason to draw it". I disagree. In your specific situation you avoided numerous awful situations by not firing. Hey, if the guy leaves, GREAT, did you WANT to shoot him, hell no. But If he kept coming, you were ready. Who knows what kind of weapons he may have had, or maybe he was on crack or meth, who knows. I like the fact that most of the time, the presence of a weapon, stops the altercation entirely.
Now I've got buddies who say " If I draw my gun, I'm going to shoot, that's the only reason to draw it". I disagree. In your specific situation you avoided numerous awful situations by not firing. Hey, if the guy leaves, GREAT, did you WANT to shoot him, hell no. But If he kept coming, you were ready. Who knows what kind of weapons he may have had, or maybe he was on crack or meth, who knows. I like the fact that most of the time, the presence of a weapon, stops the altercation entirely.
close encounter
Glad you didnt have to shoot WA. Sticky situation... do i? or dont i?. and then in the morning it is what if ?and why didnt i? but enough about the psychology of it. glad you are ok and that he decided to retreat instead of forcing your hand ( no pun intended
). besides if you went to jail <not saying you would have> but IZinter and IZhum and bunch of other people would have to shop elsewhere for discount firearms and that would break thier hearts
. oh yeah and you being in jail would suck too
Glad you didnt have to shoot WA. Sticky situation... do i? or dont i?. and then in the morning it is what if ?and why didnt i? but enough about the psychology of it. glad you are ok and that he decided to retreat instead of forcing your hand ( no pun intended
). besides if you went to jail <not saying you would have> but IZinter and IZhum and bunch of other people would have to shop elsewhere for discount firearms and that would break thier hearts . oh yeah and you being in jail would suck tooGlad you're ok but pulling a handgun on an unarmed man is a crime even if he did want to kick your ass. This is the exact reason I carry OC while carrying a handgun off-duty. Maybe you're a woman or a feeble old man and I apologize if that's the case as you would have been justified. I'm with the others that agree you should have called the cops. That guy could have called them and you would have been taken to jail most likely for assault. He also could have been looking to rob/rape or kill someone and after he left your home, looked for a better victim. Calling the cops may have stopped him from hurting another person.
leadcounsel
Moderator
Are you SURE he wasn't armed with something, like a tire iron or a stick or even a big rock....
Seriously though, I'm not sure about Alaska, but most states only require that you were in fear of your life from imminent serious bodily harm. Does Alaska require a duty to retreat?
Seriously though, I'm not sure about Alaska, but most states only require that you were in fear of your life from imminent serious bodily harm. Does Alaska require a duty to retreat?
How long was your adrenaline pumping? If it were me I would have enough adrenaline in my system to flip over my truck til dinner time.
You handled it well. You gave him a chance to stop and saved his life by drawing when you did. Any closer and you would have had to pop him. My thoughts are the same as mentioned before. No weapon and far enough away I'd hold the fire for a moment. Any weapon in sight and its the OK Coral. Even more so if family is present, because retreating is even harder.
Although I would have called the cops for the reason that he might have placed a call too. And definatly wait to talk to LEOs if you have to shoot until you talk to your lawyer.
You handled it well. You gave him a chance to stop and saved his life by drawing when you did. Any closer and you would have had to pop him. My thoughts are the same as mentioned before. No weapon and far enough away I'd hold the fire for a moment. Any weapon in sight and its the OK Coral. Even more so if family is present, because retreating is even harder.
Although I would have called the cops for the reason that he might have placed a call too. And definatly wait to talk to LEOs if you have to shoot until you talk to your lawyer.
Blackwater OPS
New member
Not always, and probably not in this case.
Do you carry cuffs and a radio as well?
(Not that carrying OC is a bad idea)Because they could charge him with what, walking at someone in a parking lot?
WildAlaska,
You exhibited good ol' common sense in your confrontation with this individual. Disparate size and age made you a target. Presenting your firearm saved that idiots life and prevented you from getting hurt.
If you had to make a decision to shoot I am sure it would have been as a last resort. I guess in the end it is one of those "you had to be there" sort of things. Tough call. I'm sure glad you are okay though!
You exhibited good ol' common sense in your confrontation with this individual. Disparate size and age made you a target. Presenting your firearm saved that idiots life and prevented you from getting hurt.
If you had to make a decision to shoot I am sure it would have been as a last resort. I guess in the end it is one of those "you had to be there" sort of things. Tough call. I'm sure glad you are okay though!
No, I don't and I have carried OC with my CCW before I was in law enforcement. You can't go pulling out your gun at every tough guy wanting to pick a fight with you. If you don't know how to defend yourself w/H2H, then OC is a decent less than lethal alternative that isn't going to get you a trip to jail.
Well, according to you and the original poster, he was doing something wrong enough to warrant using deadly force. That's why he drawed down on him, right?
Blackwater OPS
New member
No one claimed he commited a crime, what is clear from Ken's statement is that he was in reasonable fear for his life and/or serious bodily injury. THAT is what warranted the presentation of deadly force and possibly its use had the subject not decided he had the wrong guy.
You should at least know this from your CCW class before your LE career.
In any case you cannot go around spraying people with OC without cause any more than you can shoot them, although the consequences are slightly less dire, so I fail to see your position.
That's why I mentioned if he is an older gentleman and feared for his life then I appologize. But pulling out a gun on an unarmed person coming at you aggressively or just looking to kick your ass is a crime. That's the law here in AZ. Maybe in CA and AK it's different.
On the contrary, OC is a less-lethal weapon and can be used on someone intent on hurting you even if they are unarmed. It's a necessary tool IMO if you carry a concealed weapon. We're not living in some la-la land where we can draw down on every dic*head intent on starting a fight with us. This is the reality of that...
http://www.kvoa.com/Global/story.asp?S=5034336&nav=menu216_2
I'd hate to see anyone's life ruined by some scumbag. Glad everything turned out ok.
GUNSMOKE45441
New member
The guy should get a lifesaving medal or some award, because he clearly saved his life by running.
I read the link in the above post, jury was not given all the facts, hard to make a ruleing based on partial evidence
WELL DONE WA!!!!
I read the link in the above post, jury was not given all the facts, hard to make a ruleing based on partial evidence
WELL DONE WA!!!!
stephen426
New member
Wild,
Glad you are okay.
As for your shoot/no shoot question, I would have given him one more step after the gun was presented and then pop a round into him. Another step and he gets another round until you are out of ammo. The only Seecamps I know of are chambered for .32 acp. This is a puny round and has very little stopping power even if you are using hollow points. There are plenty of documented cases where people have been shot with a much more substantial caliber and still killed the person who shot them. If the guy had a concealed contact weapon, 10 feet is would not be nearly enough distance to stop him, especially with a .32 acp. Even without a weapon, a large guy who is intoxicated may not feel pain and may still severely injure you, if not kill you, with his bare hands. I would definately go for a head shot if the first shot COM did not stop him or at least make him reconsider.
stephentakecareandstaysafe426
Glad you are okay.
As for your shoot/no shoot question, I would have given him one more step after the gun was presented and then pop a round into him. Another step and he gets another round until you are out of ammo. The only Seecamps I know of are chambered for .32 acp. This is a puny round and has very little stopping power even if you are using hollow points. There are plenty of documented cases where people have been shot with a much more substantial caliber and still killed the person who shot them. If the guy had a concealed contact weapon, 10 feet is would not be nearly enough distance to stop him, especially with a .32 acp. Even without a weapon, a large guy who is intoxicated may not feel pain and may still severely injure you, if not kill you, with his bare hands. I would definately go for a head shot if the first shot COM did not stop him or at least make him reconsider.
stephentakecareandstaysafe426
imur_huckle_berry
New member
Really? If so, I'm glad I don't live in AZ. I would have done the same thing WA, BUT, if I had decided to drop him it would have been justified in the eyes of the TX law. Glad you're ok.
281 Quad Cam
New member
The police are very tricky.... I probably would have called - but I am a glutton for punishment.
I can honestly see them arresting me for armed assault - than trying to find the other guy only to convince him to press charges against me - which ofcourse he will do - as well as sue me in civil court.
A great many will say "The police are not here to help you." But I can't bring myself to be that strong about it.
I look at it this way... The cops get there, they have an open mind. They find out there were 2 involved. One did nothing but walk thru a parking lot, the other presented a firearm and assaulted the first man. Since you cannot prove he had bad intent, and without evidence the police cannot believe you that he made aggresive gestures... Look at it from their eyes. Furthermore you could very likely get a cop whos anti-gun.
I don't know what I'm saying. But WA may have made the right choice, considering he is home and comfy right now, and not in a jail cell awaiting brandishing or assault charges. Just another failure of the justice system.
I can honestly see them arresting me for armed assault - than trying to find the other guy only to convince him to press charges against me - which ofcourse he will do - as well as sue me in civil court.
A great many will say "The police are not here to help you." But I can't bring myself to be that strong about it.
I look at it this way... The cops get there, they have an open mind. They find out there were 2 involved. One did nothing but walk thru a parking lot, the other presented a firearm and assaulted the first man. Since you cannot prove he had bad intent, and without evidence the police cannot believe you that he made aggresive gestures... Look at it from their eyes. Furthermore you could very likely get a cop whos anti-gun.
I don't know what I'm saying. But WA may have made the right choice, considering he is home and comfy right now, and not in a jail cell awaiting brandishing or assault charges. Just another failure of the justice system.
That'll teach you to confuse steak sauce for your aftershave. A "huge, hairy guy" in Alaska, huh?
I've been hearing about these critters the locals like to call "bears", or some other stupid thing.....
J/K--glad you're okay. I would like to see some statistics on how many attacks are avoided just by a gun being drawn--I'd guess in many cases you don't even need to fire to defuse a situation. Kudos for keeping your head and exercising trigger discipline.
I've been hearing about these critters the locals like to call "bears", or some other stupid thing.....
J/K--glad you're okay. I would like to see some statistics on how many attacks are avoided just by a gun being drawn--I'd guess in many cases you don't even need to fire to defuse a situation. Kudos for keeping your head and exercising trigger discipline.
"Just looking to kick your ass"...this is my new favorite quote. When you choose to carry concealed, you are playing by a different set of rules. You cannot allow yourself to get into a physical altercation where your gun could be taken or control of it lost in any way. Someone "just looking to kick your ass" when you're carrying could present a real problem.
Just because it's the law, doesn't mean it's right. I conceal carry in Washington D.C. and many other places I'm not supposed to, because those places are where it's needed the most.
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