Well, from reading the whole thread, it seems fairly certain to me that this was an ammo issue...too hot. I'm with those who say not to use this ammo provider again. I think I would discard that magazine and have a good gunsmith go over the weapon...you might even ask S&W to do it. If the gun is undamaged, I would feel ok about continuing to use it. To my knowledge, the Bodyguard has at least a decent reputation for quality construction.
Had a kind of Kaboom today
- Thread starter FlySubCompact
- Start date
I agree. At first when the op stated it was a NEW gun, I thought it was a new gun. But if he has already tested various ammos without issue, then I too suspect ammo is the culprit. I would still have a smith give it a once over before firing again. Nothing is broken, so doubtful summit or smith is going to give your case much attention.
Aguila Blanca
Staff
Yes, "as noted "demil" is short for "demilitarized." When the military has overstocks, and possibly when their ammo is too old, they dispose of it but they are not allowed to just sell it. They disassemble it, then sell the components to companies such as Summit who put the components back together.
Semantics is everything, I guess. As far as I'm concerned, ammunition built out of demilitarized components isn't new, factory ammo. It's commercial reloads, at best ... a.k.a. "remanufactured."
jolly roger
New member
Second time I've heard of such a problem from a Bodyguard 380 interestingly enough. Still think bad ammo. Other one was shooting re manufactured also and their is little room for error when loading 380 due to the small case. Good news is the other one just popped the mag out also and the guy says it still runs fine after the "anomaly"
Unlocking too early before pressure has a chance to lower? If the cases are bulged either the case is unsupported by the chamber or the case is exiting the chamber before pressure drops. You can't get a bulged case any other way, unless the chamber is bulged. It could be a gun issue or ammo loaded too hot or a combination of the two. What did your cases look like from other brands of ammo you have tried?
While Summit states that they "manufacture" ammunition,* other sources say that it is actually reloaded or "re-manufactured" ammo, using mostly once fired brass. (I don't know where they would get enough "once fired" .380 brass; that is just one question I would have.)
Some reports and reviews have been positove, but at least one other user had similar problems.
*True since they presumably have a manufacturers' FFL, and someone can "manufacture" ammunition from anything, including new components, range sweepings, old beer cans, etc.
Jim
Some reports and reviews have been positove, but at least one other user had similar problems.
*True since they presumably have a manufacturers' FFL, and someone can "manufacture" ammunition from anything, including new components, range sweepings, old beer cans, etc.
Jim
precision_shooter
New member
It may be new brass with their headstamp, but that doesn't mean the powder and bullets are not reclaimed military surplus...
it does because the bullets are barnes bullets, at least that what it says on the box. and I tend to agree with the ballistic tip. don't know of any pulls that have polymer tipped bullets. as for powder, I guess it's possible..... but since 300BLK uses magnum pistol powders, I find it unlikely. pulling the bullet looks to be lil' gun
none of this speaks re-claimed to me.
none of this speaks re-claimed to me.
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(in the gun we are talking about,?)
I consider this important information. Did the fired cases from the other boxes have the same bad bulges? Do cases from different ammo brands have the same bulge?
If so, it may NOT be an "overcharged round".
Essentially, ever since Glock proved they could get away with it, several recent pistol designs have chambers that are "generously" relieved in the feed ramp area. This does promote reliable feeding.
HOWEVER, the case is left with less support in this area than what was considered adequate in the past. Most of the time, it is enough. Once in a while, it is not.
Remember, to the gun maker, the case only has to survive the feeding and firing cycle, ONCE, to be considered adequate. A design that feeds, fires, and ejects reliably, even though it may stretch the cases close to their failure point, is still a "good" design to the gunmaker. There is nothing in the "rules" that says guns have to leave their empties in reloadable condition. The majority did, and still do, so we have come to expect this. Today we have several designs that, in my opinion, do not leave their fired cases in safe, reloadable condition, on purpose.
Remember too that gun makers all say not to use reloaded ammunition. In the case of guns with these "undersupported" chambers, might it not be that the designers counted on the use of new ammo?
New brass has the most "stretch" available, before failing. The ability of fired & reloaded brass to stretch (without failing) is less, and gets less each firing and reloading cycle the case survives.
With a fully supported chamber, brass can only stretch in length, and it is this that generally allows reloading (and usually multiple reloading) of the case. These unsupported chambers allow the case to bulge out to the side, and on top of that, the bulge is just in front of the solid case head, an area where the strength and thickness of the case are critical to its safe reuse.
I believe that by letting the case bulge the way they do (with standard safe pressure loads), these guns are essentially "using up" the reloadable life of the case on its first firing. I think the designers intended this, stopping just "short" of the failure point of the case, under normal circumstances.
But sometimes, an individual case will fail sooner than the majority. When this happens, you might get a "ka-boom" from a load (that is within pressure spec,) in the relieved chamber, that would not have happened in a "regular" chamber.
These guns walk close to the line, and sometimes, it gets crossed, without any failure on the part of the ammo maker. Not common, but sometimes, the stars line up, and the entrails are favorable for Murphy to combine things in the worst way.
In your case, an overcharged round is a possibility. A reloaded case (even by a factory) is a possibility. Its also a possibility your gun has TOO large an unsupported chamber, but since other rounds have fired without issue, this is less likely to be the main cause of this specific incident. It could well be a contributing factor, though.
I know many people have, and do reload the bulged brass from these kinds of chambers, without incident. I also know that these cases often fail before identical ones that have only been fired in "standard" chambers. Sometimes drastically before.
I will not reload cases with the kind of bulge shown in the OP's pic. I will not recommend any do so. Your call on that.
My point is that while the likely explanations involving something in the gun or ammo being wrong, are the most possible, one should not entirely discount that everything might have been in spec, and it was the combination of the tolerances of spec lining up just right, this time, to create the "perfect storm" that allowed case failure, this time.
FlySubCompact
New member
44 AMP, (interesting handle, BTW. I'm a sparky....why 44?)
You offer a bunch of good points.
As to previously fired cartridges of this same brand....I have fired many rounds, but had no intention of ever reloading any .380's so I've never scrutinized any fired casings up until this little Kaboom. I wish now that I could have been in an environment where collection of all the spent casings from this session could have happened. Especially that Kaboomed one. Judging by the schrapnel damage exhibited on the top cartridge in the top of the mag and the blood dripping off my nose I'd bet it was a doozy. I will do a lot more examinations on spent .380s from now on.
When I first bought a .40 cal Glock I had intentions of reloading for that caliber until I saw how much a Glock warps them. I do reload, but in 9mm only. I run a Lone Wolf 40-9 barrel in the Glock 27 and see very little case deformity in those spent casings. Some I've tracked and reloaded at least seven times.
Since starting this thread I've taken the gun, leftover Summit ammo and the spent casings back to the LGS I purchased the gun and ammo from. He's supposed to sick his in-house gunsmith on it to check the situation out. Said he'd let me know if the gun was OK or if it needs to go back to Smith and Wesson. He also traded out the rest of Summit ammo for another brand for me. If I find out anything I'll update this thread.
You offer a bunch of good points.
As to previously fired cartridges of this same brand....I have fired many rounds, but had no intention of ever reloading any .380's so I've never scrutinized any fired casings up until this little Kaboom. I wish now that I could have been in an environment where collection of all the spent casings from this session could have happened. Especially that Kaboomed one. Judging by the schrapnel damage exhibited on the top cartridge in the top of the mag and the blood dripping off my nose I'd bet it was a doozy. I will do a lot more examinations on spent .380s from now on.
When I first bought a .40 cal Glock I had intentions of reloading for that caliber until I saw how much a Glock warps them. I do reload, but in 9mm only. I run a Lone Wolf 40-9 barrel in the Glock 27 and see very little case deformity in those spent casings. Some I've tracked and reloaded at least seven times.
Since starting this thread I've taken the gun, leftover Summit ammo and the spent casings back to the LGS I purchased the gun and ammo from. He's supposed to sick his in-house gunsmith on it to check the situation out. Said he'd let me know if the gun was OK or if it needs to go back to Smith and Wesson. He also traded out the rest of Summit ammo for another brand for me. If I find out anything I'll update this thread.
Since you asked, FlySub, this is what I took for a screen name, its not about electricity. 
Auto Mag Pistol
Why ARE there such a profusion of aftermarket barrels for the GLock? The only explanation is that there is something about Glock barrels that enough people don't like to make the aftermarket barrels a profitable item. If they weren't, they wouldn't be around for people to buy.
I don't have a dog in this fight, directly. I don't have a Glock, or any similar style pistols. I have examined and shot several of them though. Whether it is because of bulging brass, or the issues with lead bullets in polygonal bores, the fact is that a LOT of people who own these guns have replaced the factory barrels with something else. (I'm not singling out Glock specifically, just using their name, my comments apply to all the guns using the same kind of design. (barrel leaving "too much" case unsupported for my comfort
)
Ever blow up balloons? You try to get them as big as you can, stopping just before they pop, right? But blow in just a little more air, and ..BOOM! Ever see one go boom just before or when it got to the full size of the others? It happens. Bad balloon.
These guns work about the same way. When all is well, all is well, when not, ...boom.
Auto Mag Pistol
Ok, and WHY are you running an aftermarket barrel?
Why ARE there such a profusion of aftermarket barrels for the GLock? The only explanation is that there is something about Glock barrels that enough people don't like to make the aftermarket barrels a profitable item. If they weren't, they wouldn't be around for people to buy.
I don't have a dog in this fight, directly. I don't have a Glock, or any similar style pistols. I have examined and shot several of them though. Whether it is because of bulging brass, or the issues with lead bullets in polygonal bores, the fact is that a LOT of people who own these guns have replaced the factory barrels with something else. (I'm not singling out Glock specifically, just using their name, my comments apply to all the guns using the same kind of design. (barrel leaving "too much" case unsupported for my comfort
)Ever blow up balloons? You try to get them as big as you can, stopping just before they pop, right? But blow in just a little more air, and ..BOOM! Ever see one go boom just before or when it got to the full size of the others? It happens. Bad balloon.
These guns work about the same way. When all is well, all is well, when not, ...boom.
FlySubCompact
New member
44 Auto Mag Pistol 
I run an aftermarket barrel in my Glock 27 and 23 simply because of caliber conversion from .40 to 9mm. In doing so, I've discovered that I like 9mm more than .40. I also have a .357 Sig barrel for the 27. Expensive ammo, but I actually like it, too.
Anyway, an update...
Got the little Bodyguard back from the LGS. He had his in-house gunsmith check it over. He said it was OK. Still a little scared of the pistol
I loaded both mags with a variety of ammo. Some cheap steel case stuff and more expensive defensive rounds in the mix. (Note: All the Summit brand has been removed and traded back to the LGS) I put on a thick leather work glove on my weak hand and fired it using a tree as a shield against another potential Kaboom. All fired normally. All spent cases collected. Not one bulged case in the bunch. Must have been a bad lot of ammo that caused the malfunction.
I run an aftermarket barrel in my Glock 27 and 23 simply because of caliber conversion from .40 to 9mm. In doing so, I've discovered that I like 9mm more than .40. I also have a .357 Sig barrel for the 27. Expensive ammo, but I actually like it, too.
Anyway, an update...
Got the little Bodyguard back from the LGS. He had his in-house gunsmith check it over. He said it was OK. Still a little scared of the pistol
I loaded both mags with a variety of ammo. Some cheap steel case stuff and more expensive defensive rounds in the mix. (Note: All the Summit brand has been removed and traded back to the LGS) I put on a thick leather work glove on my weak hand and fired it using a tree as a shield against another potential Kaboom. All fired normally. All spent cases collected. Not one bulged case in the bunch. Must have been a bad lot of ammo that caused the malfunction.FlySubCompact
New member
Dwhite,
He does run a good shop. That is why I trade there. His place is on my way to work. Since he opened a couple of years ago I can't recall ever seeing his parking lot totally empty during business hours. I think the lowest customer head count when I've walked in was three or four. Don't know if he's a drinking man, but he gets my return business.
He does run a good shop. That is why I trade there. His place is on my way to work. Since he opened a couple of years ago I can't recall ever seeing his parking lot totally empty during business hours. I think the lowest customer head count when I've walked in was three or four. Don't know if he's a drinking man, but he gets my return business.
rt11002003
New member
I've had two incidents in the past couple of months. The first was with a .22 Hammerli Xesse Sport. The squib load was so light I barely noticed it, in fact I didn't know anything happened, the shot was just different. Checked it. The barrel was clear and everything else was OK; I thought.
When I was cleaning it, I discovered the frame was cracked on the bottom. Contacted Walther, they sent a FedEx ticket for me to send them the gun. They discovered the barrel was also cracked, but decided it was an ammo issue. Contacted ARMSCOR, they sent a FedEx ticket. They took one look and said they were responsible. They bought the gun from me, told me their .22 ammo was "plinking" ammo and not to use it in a gun like the Hammerli.
Then, I was shooting my SIG 1911 .45 Target. Really a nice, accurate gun. One shot failed to recycle the action. When I checked, the round was stuck in the barrel, just past the chamber. It was really jammed in tight. My wood dowel shattered, so I used a long metal punch, not quite long enough.
It nicked the end of barrel and left several dimples in the round. Did I mention it was jammed in tight? The ammo was Freedom, re-manufactured. Contacted them. They refused to talk with me unless I had the gun checked by a gunsmith; and, they wouldn't discuss reimbursing me for a gunsmith's report. Freedom did agree to take the ammo back. I replaced the barrel. It was easier than dealing with them. And, probably didn't cost much more than a gunsmith's report.
My big surprise, beside the difference in manufacturers, was that my squib loads were so soft feeling, not loud (I wear ear plugs and ear muffs when shooting; otherwise wear hearing aids), no difference in recoil that I could sense, m/b I'm just numb.
When I was cleaning it, I discovered the frame was cracked on the bottom. Contacted Walther, they sent a FedEx ticket for me to send them the gun. They discovered the barrel was also cracked, but decided it was an ammo issue. Contacted ARMSCOR, they sent a FedEx ticket. They took one look and said they were responsible. They bought the gun from me, told me their .22 ammo was "plinking" ammo and not to use it in a gun like the Hammerli.Then, I was shooting my SIG 1911 .45 Target. Really a nice, accurate gun. One shot failed to recycle the action. When I checked, the round was stuck in the barrel, just past the chamber. It was really jammed in tight. My wood dowel shattered, so I used a long metal punch, not quite long enough.
It nicked the end of barrel and left several dimples in the round. Did I mention it was jammed in tight? The ammo was Freedom, re-manufactured. Contacted them. They refused to talk with me unless I had the gun checked by a gunsmith; and, they wouldn't discuss reimbursing me for a gunsmith's report. Freedom did agree to take the ammo back. I replaced the barrel. It was easier than dealing with them. And, probably didn't cost much more than a gunsmith's report.My big surprise, beside the difference in manufacturers, was that my squib loads were so soft feeling, not loud (I wear ear plugs and ear muffs when shooting; otherwise wear hearing aids), no difference in recoil that I could sense, m/b I'm just numb.