Dirty_Harry
New member
I think the VP9 is a better handgun than the Glock 17. Is it that much better that you need to ditch your 17 (or 19) and upgrade? No.
H&K VP9 vs Glock 17
- Thread starter chrisintexas
- Start date
I think that sums it up nicely. The VP9 is by all accounts a very good entry into what is mostly a new area for HK. They're made strikers in the past, they've used polymer in the past, but they're late to the party. However they at least got to the party in good fashion.
I look at the VP9 and I can't help but compare it to the SIG P320. Both very well respected companies that hadn't had striker fired options to compete against Glock, S&W, etc. The VP9 seems to have been marketed very well. HK did almost a 180, IMO, and went from a company that didn't interact with civilian customers much at all to one that made sure every notable YouTube reviewer had one and that the supply was there very shortly after announcement to meet the initial demand rush. To me this is a big step for HK (brought on by necessity but still). The P320 on the other hand, is barely talked about on this forum or many others and no one seems in a rush to review or buy one.
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JHansenAK47
New member
SIG has tarnished their brand name with their habit of rushing new products to market and then having to iron out various details, leaving their customers holding the bag. Not to mention the debacle of the P320s predecessor. It isn't surprising that the P320 isn't able to generate much interest.
Uncle Malice
New member
You know, I'm actually more interested in the P320 than the VP9 at this point.
The P320 might not have had all of the marketing hype around it, but it seems to have pretty great reviews all around with no reported issues.
It seems the only complaint is that the bore axis is higher than it needs to be on a striker gun. I think I'm going to off on the VP9 il we hear more about the trigger bar spring issue which I'm guessing HK will uphoodVP9will or redesign at some point like they did with the USP. The problem with the charging handles or ears busting off/falling off is less of a concern if they actually get some flush fit replacements... Preferably made of metal.
I think it's a great design but it might be a little more tweaking it seems. And I say that as an HK fan boy paying for my HK 45 Compact Tactical tomorrow.
I do like the minor slide stop change Sig made to the 320 for the military trials veversion although I'd prefer to see it without the safety. The carry/compact model is most interesting to me.
The P320 might not have had all of the marketing hype around it, but it seems to have pretty great reviews all around with no reported issues.
It seems the only complaint is that the bore axis is higher than it needs to be on a striker gun. I think I'm going to off on the VP9 il we hear more about the trigger bar spring issue which I'm guessing HK will uphoodVP9will or redesign at some point like they did with the USP. The problem with the charging handles or ears busting off/falling off is less of a concern if they actually get some flush fit replacements... Preferably made of metal.
I think it's a great design but it might be a little more tweaking it seems. And I say that as an HK fan boy paying for my HK 45 Compact Tactical tomorrow.
I do like the minor slide stop change Sig made to the 320 for the military trials veversion although I'd prefer to see it without the safety. The carry/compact model is most interesting to me.
Well there had to be one guy.
Idk if I would go that far. On pistol-forum there was a pretty long trip about issues with barrel peening and trips back to SIG seemed to lead to more issues than fixes. Now I wouldn't be surprised if it's just an issue with early production models, but it is out there. Part of it is I think there are frankly less people out there with them currently and fewer reports overall. Now that they are shipping them in greater numbers I expect more reports.
I have to agree with Bruce Gray that I think HK went maybe more complex with the VP9 design than necessary. I agree that a redesign of that part may be in the pipeline.
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Lol, okay two. Frankly I don't like either, but there's nothing about the P320 that is appealing to me. I've held one and shot one in a class. It's decent, but it does nothing for me that isn't already out there and something about the grip just seems unappealing to me. It's not that the grip isn't comfortable, cause it is, it's hard for me to describe. I think my point though is still valid that the VP9 is currently enjoying more success than the P320.
tahunua001
New member
I would take the glock... and I hate glocks. the VP9 simply has not been around long enough for me to be comfortable owning one... let them work out all the bugs(if any exist) first.
there being one caveat... It would probably have to be a generation 3 glock and I'd want to shoot it first to make sure it's not a brass to the face gun... I've seen gen 4s have some serious failure rates(pre recalls) and I already have one gun that throws brass in my face, I really don't want another...
there being one caveat... It would probably have to be a generation 3 glock and I'd want to shoot it first to make sure it's not a brass to the face gun... I've seen gen 4s have some serious failure rates(pre recalls) and I already have one gun that throws brass in my face, I really don't want another...
buckhorn_cortez
New member
Is this opinion based upon HK putting out firearms that don't work or have problems? Or, is it because Glock never has any problems like the smooth, no problems introduction of the Series 4...?
tahunua001
New member
buckhorn.... did you seriously only read the one sentence that you quoted? I clearly said in my post that Glock has had problems in the past, just like every other company out there. thank you for posting a single sentence of my entire post and using it out of context to start a brand war.
I do not like glocks, pure and simple, I was simply stating for the purpose of the discussion that if I was going to have to choose a glock or HK I would have to pick the glock based on the fact that the VP9 is unproven. personally I would take neither and get a springfield XDM instead, but that was not one of the options.
any company has the ability of turning out a lemon or having something slip through the cracks. Ruger quite often releases a design as it's still being tested and issues a full scale recall to fix what is usually a minor issue. Springfield which hasn't had a single issue with either the XD or XDM lines, ended up releasing the XD-S with a bad trigger group and had to recall the entire series. glock gen 4s... self evident and very fresh in our minds. no company is immune to turning out lemons, not even the high and mighty heckler and koch.
I do not like glocks, pure and simple, I was simply stating for the purpose of the discussion that if I was going to have to choose a glock or HK I would have to pick the glock based on the fact that the VP9 is unproven. personally I would take neither and get a springfield XDM instead, but that was not one of the options.
any company has the ability of turning out a lemon or having something slip through the cracks. Ruger quite often releases a design as it's still being tested and issues a full scale recall to fix what is usually a minor issue. Springfield which hasn't had a single issue with either the XD or XDM lines, ended up releasing the XD-S with a bad trigger group and had to recall the entire series. glock gen 4s... self evident and very fresh in our minds. no company is immune to turning out lemons, not even the high and mighty heckler and koch.
LockedBreech
New member
buckhorn_cortez said:
...or it's the basic common sense assessment of the risks of being an early adopter, risks which exist in nearly every industry.
The VP9 is a better pistol in nearly every way, when compared to just about any gLoCk.
- HK trigger is far better right out of the box
- HK sights aren't plastic
- HK guide rod isn't plastic
- HK magazines aren't plastic
- HK back strap is adjustable
- HK side panels are adjustable
- HK frame doesn't flex
- HK paddle magazine release is more intuitive
- HK grip has the grip hump in the correct place for shooting comfort
- You can hang a light on the front of the HK without it puking
- HK doesn't shoot brass to your face
- HK has a grip angle that makes it a more natural shooter for most people
- HK's fit and finish is better
- HK is more accurate
- HK doesn't look like a 2x4
If you suck so badly that you really need those two extra rounds, go for the gLoCk.
Mine has functioned 100%.
- HK trigger is far better right out of the box
- HK sights aren't plastic
- HK guide rod isn't plastic
- HK magazines aren't plastic
- HK back strap is adjustable
- HK side panels are adjustable
- HK frame doesn't flex
- HK paddle magazine release is more intuitive
- HK grip has the grip hump in the correct place for shooting comfort
- You can hang a light on the front of the HK without it puking
- HK doesn't shoot brass to your face
- HK has a grip angle that makes it a more natural shooter for most people
- HK's fit and finish is better
- HK is more accurate
- HK doesn't look like a 2x4
If you suck so badly that you really need those two extra rounds, go for the gLoCk.
Mine has functioned 100%.
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buckhorn_cortez
New member
Then that would apply to being an early adopters of a Series 4 Glock too.
Or, is this the failure modes you know as opposed to the potential for failures that you don't know?
I have no fear of new technology and don't subscribe to projecting the potential for failures on new products. I have a cardioverter in my chest that was the latest model from the manufacturer...I had no choice and couldn't wait for "early adopters" to work out the bugs. The projected possibility of the potential for some type of failure in a pistol is a minor issue to me.
tahunua001
New member
no worries, you just have one of the easy networking devices that can be hacked and turned off by cyber terrorists... there is always a risk with new technology, whether you subscribe to a train of thought that denies it or not. google Therac-25, an old(but once cutting edge) radiation therapy suite for oncology clinics which was not thoroughly tested and had bad programming which caused the system to crash and administer lethal doses of radiation to cancer patients. try telling the family members of those patients that their family members would not have been better served by getting treatment from older, more proven systems.
people who believe that HK is infalliable are likely the same people that don't use antivirus software on their apple computers because apples are "immune to malware". for a second time in a row, you've taken the "try something that's been around longer and beta tested on the public" and turned it into a reason to bash the Gen4 glocks. please, take a minute to step back and remember that those recalls are over 2 years old, pretty sure there are no new glocks on the shelves that still have the reliability issues that the initial models had. one can not say without a shadow of a doubt at this point, that the VP9 does not have inherent design flaws.
people who believe that HK is infalliable are likely the same people that don't use antivirus software on their apple computers because apples are "immune to malware". for a second time in a row, you've taken the "try something that's been around longer and beta tested on the public" and turned it into a reason to bash the Gen4 glocks. please, take a minute to step back and remember that those recalls are over 2 years old, pretty sure there are no new glocks on the shelves that still have the reliability issues that the initial models had. one can not say without a shadow of a doubt at this point, that the VP9 does not have inherent design flaws.
tahunua001
New member
but does it have all of the aftermarket trigger kits that glock has?
IE, they bend instead of break, either way, if you're exerting enough energy to damage plastic sights, you're probably exerting enough to damage metal sights as well.
IE, more weight(but in a good place)
IE more weight(not in a good place)
so does glock(gen4)
good to know if your name is John Coffey. if a double stacked polymer framed pistol is too narrow for you, it must be terrible to try and find work gloves.
it's plastic, flex is better. no flex=brittle. no flex is not a terrible thing to have in a steel frame, not necessarily a good thing on plastic frames.
how so? just about everyone else in the industry uses a push button. how is it more intuitive to use a design which only HK uses? to me, that spells training mindset nightmare.
subjective, every person is different.
I'm really at a loss on this one, are you saying that glocks turn into keltecs if you hang a light on the front rail?
alright I have to give you that one, brass to the face sucks and glocks are notorious for that.
actually the grip angle is the one thing glock grips have going for them. I don't mind the angle too much, it's the size and shape that I find intolerable.
I'll give you that, simply for no other reason than I have yet to lay hands on one to determine for myself, although I have seen a number of detailed pictures on the interweb which lead me to believe that the fit/finish is no more superior than any other service pistol from a reputable manufacturer.
based on what? I find it hard to believe that roughly 50% of competitive shooters are using glocks for no other reason than brand loyalty.
ok you win there.
Dirty_Harry
New member
I cant believe being an HK fanboy I am about to argure for the Glock but:
arrtvandelay
Inactive
Personal disclaimer first-I think the vp9 is the best out if the box 9mm pistol available bar none after spending a few hundred rds with one.
BUT...
I can certainly see why someone would pick a g17 over the hk. I'm certainly not getting rid of my g19s just yet. Preference of one over the other will be completely subjective.
My vp9 fits my hand like no other gun and that coupled with its excellent trigger allows me to shoot it better than any other gun I own. Getting into the hk will cost a little more up front in its initial price plus cost of mags and parts. Getting into the glock will be cheaper, and glock mags and accessories are more available and cheaper. However, to bring an out of the box glock to the vp9's level, you're going to be spending on par with the initial vp9 price plus maybe a little more. I am fine with a glock out if the box except for the sights, so a new glock would be less for me.
I don't really like full size guns and tend to always gravitate towards the compact models. So in my case, I'd skip the g17 all together and get a g19. The vp9, however, feels smaller in hand that it is because if its unique grip options, at least to me. From my comparisons, the vp9 is just a tiny smidge smaller than a g17 and just about spot on the same size as an m&p FS.
The one gripe I have about the hk is the capacity. While 15rds is nothing to sneeze at, all of its major competitors boast 17rd or more capacities with the same size magazine. I know it may only be 15 to promote reliability, bud if glock and s&w can make a reliable gun with the same footprint of the vp9 hold 17rds, I don't see why hk can't. Still, not a horrible concern, as 15+1 is adequate for my needs. It's just a bothersome detail that I think should have been addressed.
All in all, I am quite the fan of my vp9...
BUT...
I can certainly see why someone would pick a g17 over the hk. I'm certainly not getting rid of my g19s just yet. Preference of one over the other will be completely subjective.
My vp9 fits my hand like no other gun and that coupled with its excellent trigger allows me to shoot it better than any other gun I own. Getting into the hk will cost a little more up front in its initial price plus cost of mags and parts. Getting into the glock will be cheaper, and glock mags and accessories are more available and cheaper. However, to bring an out of the box glock to the vp9's level, you're going to be spending on par with the initial vp9 price plus maybe a little more. I am fine with a glock out if the box except for the sights, so a new glock would be less for me.
I don't really like full size guns and tend to always gravitate towards the compact models. So in my case, I'd skip the g17 all together and get a g19. The vp9, however, feels smaller in hand that it is because if its unique grip options, at least to me. From my comparisons, the vp9 is just a tiny smidge smaller than a g17 and just about spot on the same size as an m&p FS.
The one gripe I have about the hk is the capacity. While 15rds is nothing to sneeze at, all of its major competitors boast 17rd or more capacities with the same size magazine. I know it may only be 15 to promote reliability, bud if glock and s&w can make a reliable gun with the same footprint of the vp9 hold 17rds, I don't see why hk can't. Still, not a horrible concern, as 15+1 is adequate for my needs. It's just a bothersome detail that I think should have been addressed.
All in all, I am quite the fan of my vp9...
Except cost... I can still get Glock 19/17s all day long NIB for $450. The VP9 not so much.
As others have pointed out most of what you believe makes the HK a better pistol are subjective points of debate. Yet another case of someone treating their subjective opinion as if it were objective fact.
Uncle Malice
New member
Link?