guy I know killed an intruder here's the story

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Don't know if they still do, but some departments used to teach that for liability reasons. If cop #1 shoots a perp twice, and in another incident cop #2 has to shoot the perp 5 times some ignorant anti liberal might question if cop # 2 used excessive force. If everybody emptied their weapon, there's no question.



<<I've never heard of any self defense class that teaches to unload clips into people, regardless of the situation.>>
 
Not to doubt your friend's word on the matter, but it seems a little hard to believe. I've never heard of any self defense class that teaches to unload clips into people, regardless of the situation. The more rounds you use, the harder it is to justify it in court.
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It's hard to say if the story is embellished a bit or some details have been recalled incorrectly. However, I know a number of self-defense trainers who advocate "shoot to lockback". Evan Marshall and Keith Jones are among them.

Shooting a whole magazine is not particularly difficult to justify in court, if the other details of the shooting event are clearly self-defense. A skilled shooter can empty a magazine much faster than it takes for the first hit to create incapacitation, and if the first shot was justified, every follow-up shot is justified as long as the bad guy is still holding a gun and conscious. As a self-defense trainer myself, I certainly would not recommend someone to stop shooting until the gun is empty or until the threat is clearly neutralized.


But ok, assuming he got off for it, I'm surprised to hear that the blood and bone stuff was still all over. Because in any shooting death incident, after detectives check the scene over and are done with their findings, it is required procedure to have a professional cleaning crew, usually specializing in crime scene cleanup, to come in and deep clean everything. And I mean everything.
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Not so at all. While this may be the case in some places, I personally know of shooting incidents where the home owner had to take care of the clean up.

They're supposed to pull up carpet, knock out walls, whatever it takes to make it like it never happened. Probably cause of biohazard procedures. You know having some guys fluids sprayed all over an apartment complex is not exactly condusive to sanitary living.
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As true as this is, without knowing the location and time frame of the incident, we have no idea the likelihood of the state either providing or mandating the clean-up you mention.

Michael Courtney
 
Thank God I do not know that stench, but it reminds me of something. There is a myth that an old samurai test of a new katana was how many bodies (supposedly sometimes living ones) it would cut through in one deft stroke. I recall reading a rebuke of this myth that listed this odor as one of the reasons it was not done.
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Sounds like the practice of tameshigiri which was sometimes done on cadavers or convicted felons.
 
Speaking of stenches that never go leave your mind, I never knew blood had a smell until I found a highschool friend in his bathtub after he commited suicide. The tub was filled with what seemed like gallons of blood. I can't describe it...metallic almost?, but that is one thing that'll will always stick with me.
 
"blood had a smell until I found a highschool friend in his bathtub after he commited suicide."


Like sour copper .



In the 80's and before there were some records that were held by the FBI and Depts and DOJ that were called " written notations" or somesuch that were limited in access to active investigations only. This is where 'criminal intelligence files' come in. I know for a fact that records of investigated subjects were kept even if no arrests or indicments were handed down.

That said, the story reeks of drug induced BS.:rolleyes:
 
Jumping in a bit late; I just saw this one.

I have no comments on the veracity of the story or your friend.

However, several people have chimed in to air doubts about the mess created. I have noted similar phenomena (lots of splatter, bone stuck on walls, etc.) several times while doing my particular brand of varmint hunting. I can't recall this ever happening with just one shot, so I'm not surprised it would be absent at a suicide scene. But, after the 7th or 10th hit in the same general area, things have already been "loosened up" substantially, making it easy for the next shot to simply launch any fragments/fluids that are just sitting loosely in the mushy area. IF you can believe the dude took 15 hits in the same general area, then it's not too hard to believe some of those shots basically overlapped. Set a pebble on a golf tee (i.e., so the rock isn't anchored to anything) in front of a wall & shoot it. Fragments do fly with alarming speed.
 
I've seen many shooting scenes

Blood and splatter is always there when you have head shots. Especially with the bigger hand guns and rifles, shotguns are really ugly.

If he dumped a full mag into someone it would be ugly. Some guys like tats and it is a way of getting attention. So based on that, if he did shoot someone, and you were talking in a bar. It would not be to far fetched to have someone with that persona to want to tell you his lifes story.

A guy blew his brains all over the place in a nice corvette, never did get the smell out of it. He was found several days after it happened. We had a guy who bought and sold cars at the division I worked. He tried everything new headliner etc.. But it was a failure. Parted it out. Did not lose money, just did not make as much as he planned.

B/S or not who knows? But he told you and you believed it enough to post here, so might be true. Weirder things have happened, I can tell you that much.
It is not that hard to conceal smells in houses and apartments. New stuff on the market covers it all up. Need to seal and replace the carpet. Done all the time. Iron is the odor.

HQ
 
I've seen three people take head shots and all made quite a mess. The first was a guy in Nam' shot under the chin and the entire back of his head was gone. Although I could see what was left of his brains he actually lived for what seemed like an eternity but in reality was only a few minutes. The second was a neighbor who called me and asked if he should kill himself inside or outside. When I went over there with the police he had done the deed in the basement by putting a shotgun under his chin. Most of his head was splattered in the joist. And the last was my friend, Harley mechanic and fellow Vietnam veteran who could no longer cope so he put his .45 in his mouth while sitting in his car. Yet another casualty of the war.

Personally I think your friends story is complete BS.
UniversalFrost said:
when you have to kill somebody it isn't something you want to brag about afterwords, that is for the guys that were never there and never saw combat
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I agree with UniversalFrost. It's been almost 40 years since I returned from Vietnam and it's only been recently that I've been able to talk about some of my experiences and after so many years many are difficult to recall except for in my dreams. But the smell of death never goes away.

Riverrat66 out...
 
I've never heard of any self defense class that teaches to unload clips into people, regardless of the situation.
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I've been told to shoot until slide lock at a self defense class before.

The only time something goes on your record is when YOU BREAK THE LAW and are convicted of that crime.
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I can't speak for every state, but as far I'm aware of the law here in NH, arrest records are kept regardless of whether you're convicted or even charged. You need to petition the court to have those records expunged if you're not charged or you're found not guilty at trial.

That being said, those records still wouldn't just pop up during a routine traffic stop.
 
Clips and magazines are very different

So if we are talking a clip it is one thing, if we are talking magazines it is another.

One of the things that seperate the knowledgeable and the ignorant.

Clips hold rounds so they can be placed into the magazine at more then one at a time. Magazines hold the ammo as you place them in one at a time (or with the assistance of the clip) usually having springs and followers.

So lets talk apples and apples. Not trying to be anal, just right.

Many times when you only have a magazine that holds 7 rounds, it is not uncommon for it to be emptied very fast. Same with a six shot revolver or five shot.
Training is the key. Does not sound like the guy was trained and he could have been very scared, could have been involved in a crime with drugs. Or he could have stumbled on someone ment to kill him, and he got the drop on him and exterminated the pest.

HQ
 
.45 Acp

That is why I like a good round. You only need one. Three at the most - you know... 2 to the chest 1 to the head.
 
I am not surprised that the guy in the story would have emptied his mag. Firing a round or two and waiting or standing there looking at the guy to assess his condition can only get you killed IMO. I have been taught to shoot untill you are certain the threat is no longer a threat and if you are not certain shoot untill lockback and reload.

How do you know for certain that your first shots even hit the guy or even if the ones that hit him were enough to do the job? When your adrenaline is pumping and the S%#t is hitting the fan it is easy to loose count of your shots and very hard to detect placement especially when you are moving and hopefully finding cover.

It is alot easier to armchair-quarterback a gunfight from our computers than it is to actually be in the middle of it.
 
And, the only time that criminal history shows up is if you HAVE a criminal history.
Casual contact with an officer does not count.
You have to be arrested, arraigned, tried and convicted. (except for some traffic offenses)
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Sorry POWDWERMAN, I believe you are wrong about this....Washington State shows all crimianl arrest. Regardless if the person has been arraigned, tried and or convicted. An arrest is an arrest and it does not just go away. Your criminal history check by LE will show the arrest, even if the charges were dismissed.
 
Sorry POWDWERMAN, I believe you are wrong about this....Washington State shows all crimianl arrest. Regardless if the person has been arraigned, tried and or convicted. An arrest is an arrest and it does not just go away. Your criminal history check by LE will show the arrest, even if the charges were dismissed.
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True, IF the check being run is a criminal history check. This is totally different from the check that's done during a routine traffic stop, where that information will not show up.

Driver's license and warrant checks are routine and dissemination of that info is only slightly limited. Criminal history checks are highly restricted, and an inquiry must be justified and documented.
 
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