Gunsite Three-Day Carbine

Aimpoint

444,
The ML2 with the 4MOA dot is what you want. The 2 MOA is too small for realistic use. There is no reason for the 2X.

As for Mounts- we use the KAC rings. The ARM's mounts are also fine, and there have been some rumblings about GG&G being non concentric. Sorry- i am traveling and have no #'s for you now.
My comment about doing it for a living needs to be explained.
If all you do is unpack the gun from the trunk and walk to the firing line, your needs may be different from someone else.
I refuse to buy low rent stuff regardless of what i use it for. I have seen waaay too much crap come through various classes because someone in a gunstore/magazine/ or Uncle Bob claimed it was the heat.

Just FYI. My Brother was a Firefighter in FDNY Special Operations Command. During the attack by muslims on the WTC, his Company- Squad Company 1- lost 12 men, out of the 94 from SOC and the 341 FF's killed by those seeking to impose their twisted sense of religion on us.
He survived, but is medically retired. I have a soft spot for FF's, and consider them to be at the top of the heap when it comes to functioning under the worst conditions around.
 
There is so much stuff to buy. I didn't want to go in there looking like some kind of geek with all this trick stuff hanging off my rifle. But I guess that is what everyone has.
I am going to try to work 96 hours of overtime next week so I can buy all this stuff. That shouldn't be a problem since it will be Chrismas and the five days following it.
 
Trick Stuff??

444,
Maybe i'm mising something here- trick stuff? An optical sight is not "trick stuff". It ensures the certainty of a first round hit under all cirvumstances/ conditions. A tac sling? It permits you to do things more efficiently.
The list goes on.
Your decision is yours of course. You can take whatever you want and it will work just fine. Bring what you want.
But i can pretty much tell you that by Wed you will wish that you had something else/ different etc.

Sodapop,
No. Mini 14's are generally not up to the task due to lack of ergonomics and fragility. I don't believe that we ever had one that lasted for the whole week.
 
Don't get me wrong Pat. What I mean is that I always looked at catalogs or whatever and never really considered buying all this "trick stuff". It wasn't that I had anything against it, in fact I thought it looked cool, but I guess it never occured to me that serious dudes used all this stuff. Or more accurately, I never gave it much thought. I guess I always looked at all this stuff as gadgets.
The bottom line is that if it is practical, and enhances my performance, I want it. Everybody I talked to about it and everything I have read says it does and that is good enough for me. And, I certainly don't know anything about this stuff, that is why I am trying to learn.
Put youself in my shoes, I am a hillbilly with grampa's old squirrel rifle and I see a rifle with flashlight, laser, optics, collapsable stock.............. and it doesn't compute.
 
Real Deal

Understood,

Now- no one said anything about lasers- visibile lasers have no real function except to make money for those making or selling.

But if you want to know about "serious dudes" and what they carry....
Our M4A1's have the following.
A KAC RAS
Verticle fore end
Tac sling
An Optic. Either an Aimpoint M2; ACOG; or AN/PVS-17.
The Aimpoint is used most often.
A White Light- either a SureFire M900 or a SureFire M962
An AN/PEQ-2A, whicj is an IR illuminator and an IR Laser aiming dot.

The first 4 are always on the carbine- the last two are mission specific.

Like i said, too bad you can't attend the May class.
 
444-
I used iron sights and certainly did not feel unarmed, but I will tell you that I'm looking at Trijicon's reflex to mount on my carbine.

What one person likes another may not. I use the Fobus handguards with built-in rails on my carbine, and I have a pretty good guess that Pat would disagree with me on that choice.;)

Part of any school experience is to find out what does/does not work. What may be great for a Spec Op operator may not suit your individual needs. Pat has offered some superb advice here for a starting point.

Go, have fun, and learn from the experience.

Denny
 
Mini 14's are generally not up to the task due to lack of ergonomics and fragility. I don't believe that we ever had one that lasted for the whole week.
Click to expand...

What actually broke on them? I've read heard that from several people. What about the AC556?
 
Chicken sandwich from chicken feces- it ain't gonna' happen

I have only had two minis in a carbine class. A TV crew did a 13 part series for the outdoor channel on Gunsite last year. The star was given a carbine- a mini- by the distributor. I recommended two.
Both went TU by Thur and she finished the class with my M4.
One gun lost headspace immediately. The other had a defective trigger group, with multiple problems.

The lack of ergonomics is the big show stoper though. Having the mechanical safety inside the trigger guard was cool in 1936, but we know more now, and that is plain stupid. The problems with magazines (aftermarket), mag changes, sights etc just make this a casual rather than a fighting gun.

As to the full auto AC556. Well, why would we believe that a select fire version would perform any better then the semi auto gun?
 
soo this begs the question are there any non-AR types that are up to the task? I am thinking on going to a local class with my 1903/a3 because thats what I own and I won't be buying another rifle for some time. As long as the rifle will hold up and you can figure out a system that works won't that get you thru or do I need an uber-rifle. I'm not trying to start a war I'm just want to know if I'm wasting money if I go to a carbine class without a assualt blaster of your choise (ar/ak/fal/g3 etc).
 
Beats Me

I guess the question is what kind of class is it?
In a carbine class a full size rifle is contraindicated, for obvious reasons.
So would a FAL or G3. They are rifles, not carbines, and have a different purpose.
I'll tell you that at Gunsite a carbine class is meant to be just that- fighting from contact distance to 100 yds, though you'll shoot out to 300 or (if the class is good) to 400 yds just as a confidence builder.

At CQB or CQE distance a full sized gun is a handicap. A bolt action rifle is a detriment under certain circumstances.
Pretty much the same as a 5.56 carbine not being useful out past 300 yds, but your 03A3 maybe being the heat.

Guns are tools. use the right tool for the job. You may consider a 5.56mm carbine to be something more or less than what it actually is, but it is neither uber nor blaster- it is a specific tool for a series of mission specific jobs.
 
S&W 24, I've seen it done (using a raffle in a carbyne class). However, to use Pat's analogy, if you go to a screwdriver class, why take a hammer?

Just think of it as a reason to buy more guns!:D "Honey, some guy on the Internet told me to buy more guns. We'll have to wait on the new sofa."
 
Be still my heart...

I will sleep easier tonight, knowing that my secret agenda- to make more good guys buy more guns- has been fulfilled!

Sweet Dreams!
 
What's the consensus on mounting optics on AR's? Are flat-tops more popular? I see more flat-tops for domestic use but more handle mounted for Military use.
 
Frame of Reference

Sir,
I'm not sure where you have been looking, but the M4 and M4A1 Carbines are flattops, and the optics are mounted thereon.
All of the military M4/M4A1's that i have seen, shot or worked with, have had a flattop mounted optic.

There is no use for a handle mounted optic, unless one has a legacy gun or just didn't think far enough ahead to get a flattop.
The normal offset between LOB and LOS on the AR is 2.5".
If you mount an optic on the carru handle, it adds another 1" or so, depending on the mount/ optic.
That means at CQB distance, you will have to hold over his head to get a CNS shot. It also precludes cheek weld, something necessary if you are going to get those rapid, accurate shots into your opponent.

In the last 3 years at Gunsite, i have seen a total of 3 people who had an optic mounted on top of the carry handle.
By Day 2 they all wished that they had something else.
Hope this helps.
 
Good Question

Depends on current events. I'm scheduled for a Chief's Special in April, and then a 250, 223, 556, and 2 Man Team Carbine in May.

Right now that is solid, but i may be there earlier for another special or not at all.

We'll see........

How have you been?
 
Been good. Thanks.
Snowing here now and colder than a witches, uh, foot.

Hope to see you in April or May.

To keep this OT, your article on tactical slings is in the next issue I'm working on:cool:

Denny
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top