Guns Of The Mountain Men
- Thread starter ThomasT
- Start date
Driftwood Johnson
New member
Howdy
My first impression of what Mountain Men carried was from the movie Jeremiah Johnson, which I first saw back in the 1972. I did not know much about the subject, and he had a Hawken or two. I didn't think too much more about it than that.
My first impression of what Mountain Men carried was from the movie Jeremiah Johnson, which I first saw back in the 1972. I did not know much about the subject, and he had a Hawken or two. I didn't think too much more about it than that.
Hawken's had low production numbers There is one flintlock Hawken known to exist and it's a full stock. Barrel lengths averaged 33-36 inches but ran up to either 40 or 42. There were a lot of similar rifles but not so many Hawken's. Their main business wasn't making rifles but rather repairing rifles and they made stocks and did blacksmith work. If Hawken didn't have a rifle in stock buyers went across the street and bought one from Leman or Dickert.
ratshooter, years ago now (back in the 80's and 90's), when my sons were still in school, I got to give presentations there on the history and equipment of the mountain men along with the firearms and most all accoutrements. I'd be there with buckskins on, along with my custom Hawken .53 cal. perc. half-stock, and my dear old .45 cal., flint, Pennsylvania long rifle that I built back in '76. I'd show them how to load a patched r.b. rifle, how to prime and to cap, and then (rifles painstakingly checked as unloaded) I'd klatch a pan of 4f, and watch their faces...priceless. Then, too, I'd snap a cap on the Hawken...yup. I was versed fairly well by that time to answer any questions they had on the guns and history of the fur trade. From all the people I got to meet and learn from through the years with my close buddies and mentors, my interest and learning of history and traditional firearms was a reward to be able to share with interested young minds. I hope some of those kids took it all to heart and have followed that trail I've held quite dear. Good stuff, and again, "Good Medicine."
Also, for quite a few years during that time (and later) I got to give the presentation of the safe handling (and history) of m.l. firearms during our local Wyoming firearms safety programs. At that time, my presentation didn't involve anything but traditional guns and loads. Patched round ball, flint and percussion only. I'm sure these days, the inline stuff would be quite popular, but I never got into that vein. A fine shooter and gun builder (who's since "gone home") I got to camp, shoot and share with, once said as we stood together leaning on our rifles waiting to shoot the iron target during a competition; "There's nothin' quite like shooting the ol' patched round ball." And as ol' Del Gue said, "By God he was right."
Also, for quite a few years during that time (and later) I got to give the presentation of the safe handling (and history) of m.l. firearms during our local Wyoming firearms safety programs. At that time, my presentation didn't involve anything but traditional guns and loads. Patched round ball, flint and percussion only. I'm sure these days, the inline stuff would be quite popular, but I never got into that vein. A fine shooter and gun builder (who's since "gone home") I got to camp, shoot and share with, once said as we stood together leaning on our rifles waiting to shoot the iron target during a competition; "There's nothin' quite like shooting the ol' patched round ball." And as ol' Del Gue said, "By God he was right."
I would probably have a hard time carrying a rifle such as my full stock Hawken on a horse...they can get pretty heavy and unwieldy in some instances. This one has a 35 inch barrel and is .50 caliber. I shoot it regularly in matches, but it gets carried in my truck...not on a horse !
I like the table cloth. I'd like to have a shirt made out of it. Flower garden camo!
And thats a deluxe rifle. I have sold a couple of my BP rifles and have had a couple of other CF guns up for sale because I am thinking about buying a really nice BP rifle. Maybe something from TVM or one of the ready to go rifles from TOW.
I have spent a lot of time watching duelist1954 on Youtube shoot his rock sparkers. Maybe too much time.
And thats a deluxe rifle. I have sold a couple of my BP rifles and have had a couple of other CF guns up for sale because I am thinking about buying a really nice BP rifle. Maybe something from TVM or one of the ready to go rifles from TOW.
I have spent a lot of time watching duelist1954 on Youtube shoot his rock sparkers. Maybe too much time.
Rienert I wish you had of came to my school back then. I have always had an interest in guns since I was just a wee tot. I was given a Red Ryder BB gun to play with all by myself when I was 5 years old. And it was a constant companion until I just flat wore it out. But I got a new BB gun for christmas. Bingo! Thanks dad. And mom.
My GF was a custom gunsmith and built hundred of custom Mauser rifles back in the 1950s through the 1970s. My dad would blue the actions for extra money. We had Mauser actions all over the house and mainly in the bathroom hung up getting a rust blue finish. So I grew up with guns. My dad and uncles all hunted so it just came to by that means. But no one shot BP rifles. I didn't even know they existed. I had to learn about those on my own. And learn I did. What a great way to shoot.
And to all who said they liked my thread thank you.
DD4lifeusmc
New member
hawken or not
the culture and economics of the early 1800's were much the same as they are today as any other time period
you used what you had until you could afford different or better
the culture and economics of the early 1800's were much the same as they are today as any other time period
you used what you had until you could afford different or better
Question...with those deeply curved buttplates, were they to be shot from the shoulder or the upper arm? I've seen pics in old muzzloader mags and I believe even in the Foxfire books of demonstrations with shooting from the upper arm. Now the shotgun style flat buttplates were intended from the shoulder.
30-30's with those curved butt plates kick harder than a 30-06.
30-30's with those curved butt plates kick harder than a 30-06.
That tablecloth is a Texas thing with all the bluebonnets on it. My wife is a pretty active quilter and god only knows what will show up around here next. The tablecloth will stay here, but the rifle will be going with me to a match again this morning. The club where I will be shooting will have their regular thanksgiving meat shoot today and hopefully that rifle will help me be up to the task of winning a turkey or ham !
There certainly has been a population of black powder enthusiasts since BP was the only technology.
Some of them have been fur trade buckskinners. This was going on before the movie "Jeremiah Johnson"
The movie greatly popularized shooting BP,with an emphasis on the fur trade.
A lot of the public identify the Hawken with the movie and subsequent offerings from Thompson Center and CVA and others.called "Hawken" Folks took pride and patience in building CVA and TC,and other "Hawken" kits. Those rifles were the doorway into the movie,the fur trade,Rendezvous,etc.
For many people,thats what a "Hawken" is. I give that a split decision. I'm glad all those folks got into BP shooting,building their kit,and enjoying their rifles.
Good for them!! .Last thing in the world I want to do is put down their pride and joy by being a Hawken snob.
But I also appreciate that its quite a stretch to call these popular guns a Hawken.
I worked with an engineer who was in on the Cherry Corners Hawken enterprise.I got a set of blueprints for Mariano Medina's rifle from him. IIRC,a Sharon barrel,too. I worked with a Gentleman out of Cheyenne who had "The Flintlocker" on his business card. His name was Ken. He mentored me through my first few builds.
It was my privilege to have a (late) Gentleman named Michael McCormick open Cache La Poudre Rifleworks open shop in my home town. A great shop,a fine man,and a Friend. He helped build an active Buckskinner group with a range,regular shoots,and a shop where I bought Baird's book,Excellent book.
I met Ron Long at those shoots. Ron Long,along with being a champion shooter,made superb locks and double sets for Hawken rifles.
This shop...was amazing. Pelts,trade beads,trade blankets,patterns for period clothes,books...Siler Locks and kits,L+R locks and triggers,Griffin hook breeches,all the unplated screws,hardware,furniture...You want a Goetz swamped barrel? There might be 4 in the rack!! Curlymaple blanks,horns,...on and on.And,a rendezvous point for smiths,enthusiasts,and shooters.Alongs with a very interesting inventory of guns,including Sharps rifles,cap and balls,and shotguns. He kept fair prices,too.
Mike would Buckskin himself out and show up,with friends to "SkookumDays" at the museum in Library Park,and he would go to schools to pass on interest in fur trade history.
Mike was far more than a shopkeeper.He built a community. RIP.
I still have the Hawken I built as Mike's customer. I value it in ways that are not about money.
I'd agree,there were not a lot of Hawken rifles,and few could afford them.
But I believe many a Mountain Man said "Some day!! That is the rifle to have!".
And gave rise to the story of Hatchet Jack,dead,under a tree,holding a Hawken with a note " This is The rifle that kilt the bear that kilt me"
Sort of like winning the lotto.
Nothing at all wrong with a Leman trade rifle or a Herschel House type Poor Boy.
And I'd agree,many other rifles were carried,served,and served well. The Eastern folks headed west carrying their eastern fine rifles.
I think it was John Bevins wrote a fine rifle building book "The Pennsylvania Rifle" Good book to have if you want to build.
Some of them have been fur trade buckskinners. This was going on before the movie "Jeremiah Johnson"
The movie greatly popularized shooting BP,with an emphasis on the fur trade.
A lot of the public identify the Hawken with the movie and subsequent offerings from Thompson Center and CVA and others.called "Hawken" Folks took pride and patience in building CVA and TC,and other "Hawken" kits. Those rifles were the doorway into the movie,the fur trade,Rendezvous,etc.
For many people,thats what a "Hawken" is. I give that a split decision. I'm glad all those folks got into BP shooting,building their kit,and enjoying their rifles.
Good for them!! .Last thing in the world I want to do is put down their pride and joy by being a Hawken snob.
But I also appreciate that its quite a stretch to call these popular guns a Hawken.
I worked with an engineer who was in on the Cherry Corners Hawken enterprise.I got a set of blueprints for Mariano Medina's rifle from him. IIRC,a Sharon barrel,too. I worked with a Gentleman out of Cheyenne who had "The Flintlocker" on his business card. His name was Ken. He mentored me through my first few builds.
It was my privilege to have a (late) Gentleman named Michael McCormick open Cache La Poudre Rifleworks open shop in my home town. A great shop,a fine man,and a Friend. He helped build an active Buckskinner group with a range,regular shoots,and a shop where I bought Baird's book,Excellent book.
I met Ron Long at those shoots. Ron Long,along with being a champion shooter,made superb locks and double sets for Hawken rifles.
This shop...was amazing. Pelts,trade beads,trade blankets,patterns for period clothes,books...Siler Locks and kits,L+R locks and triggers,Griffin hook breeches,all the unplated screws,hardware,furniture...You want a Goetz swamped barrel? There might be 4 in the rack!! Curlymaple blanks,horns,...on and on.And,a rendezvous point for smiths,enthusiasts,and shooters.Alongs with a very interesting inventory of guns,including Sharps rifles,cap and balls,and shotguns. He kept fair prices,too.
Mike would Buckskin himself out and show up,with friends to "SkookumDays" at the museum in Library Park,and he would go to schools to pass on interest in fur trade history.
Mike was far more than a shopkeeper.He built a community. RIP.
I still have the Hawken I built as Mike's customer. I value it in ways that are not about money.
I'd agree,there were not a lot of Hawken rifles,and few could afford them.
But I believe many a Mountain Man said "Some day!! That is the rifle to have!".
And gave rise to the story of Hatchet Jack,dead,under a tree,holding a Hawken with a note " This is The rifle that kilt the bear that kilt me"
Sort of like winning the lotto.
Nothing at all wrong with a Leman trade rifle or a Herschel House type Poor Boy.
And I'd agree,many other rifles were carried,served,and served well. The Eastern folks headed west carrying their eastern fine rifles.
I think it was John Bevins wrote a fine rifle building book "The Pennsylvania Rifle" Good book to have if you want to build.
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