Guns and Lead

Sometimes I wonder about that "inner city kids eating paint chips " ...
it smells fishy .
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It may sound fishy, but I can clearly remember TV commercials (PSAs) showing that exact image. Some toddler, often in diapers, sitting in an apartment window frame, background visible, showing it being in a city, playing in, and munching on the peeling (lead) paint chips.

That's the kind of images they showed us, and showed us a LOT.

There's no question lead is a hazardous material. There's also no question we can, and should do a better job of limiting exposure than we did in the past.

I just don't think the fanatic approach of banning all lead everywhere is the best way to do it.
 
Red Lead

My heritage is commercial fishing. I've been out a few years now, however back in the day.
Gallon cans of red lead bottom paint were like gold. Lead bottom paint was banned back in the 1970's. I can likely find part of a can in my paint locker.
Banned in the USA. I tend to wonder if Red lead paint is banned world wide, and I seriously doubt that it is. Why? Because it is both cheap and very effective.
That is the reason the stuff was horded and used way beyond the ban. The replacement products were both far more costly, and less effective. Lots of old wood hulls in my troll fishery, red lead preserved those hundred year old hulls. The first bowpicker I worked on had the step for the mast in the bed timbers, it was originally part of the butterfly fleet here on the Columbia, iron men in wooden boats. Boats that they painted under the waterline with red lead.
 
But does having a gun and ammunition in the house contribute to lead poisoning?
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Sure, but then so does living on Earth.

IF you set your parameters broadly enough you can connect every thing on Earth with something else on Earth.

A co-relation is only that, some degree of relationship. It doesn't mean anything more than that, without specific data indicating so.

It is the conclusions "based" on the correlations that lead us into error, or salvation, depending on what they are and what we do about them.
Taking a couple of slightly related points and looking at them, in a vacuum (Meaning without taking into consideration any other data about anything) and pronouncing A causes B so if you don't have A, you won't have B, is just simple fallacy. OR a deliberate lie. You choose....

as an extreme example, of the logic, everyone who drinks water, dies (eventually) so therefore, if you ban drinking water, we will be immortal....

Neat, simple, even plausible, as long as you consider nothing else in the universe as applying.
 
But does having a gun and ammunition in the house contribute to lead poisoning?
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It certainly can, but it doesn't have to.

There are two general principles to keep in mind.

1. The dose makes the poison. When people say things like: "There is no safe level of lead." then you know they are pursuing an agenda and not providing useful information. Of course there are safe levels of lead. Taking it to the extreme, 1 atom of lead is not going to hurt anyone. Obviously, at some level it's going to become toxic, but the idea that any at all will cause measurable damage isn't reality.

2. There are toxins all around us. Their existence isn't a problem as long as they don't get where they don't belong in quantities/concentrations that are too large. You can have all the lead you want in your house as long as you make sure it doesn't get into anyone's body except in very small quantities.

Even the medical field uses lead--but they don't eat it. It's used for shielding xrays, etc.

Also keep in mind that the heavy restrictions on the use of leaded gasoline, and other uses of lead have reduced blood lead levels dramatically in the U.S. They are currently around 15x lower than they were back in the 1970s.

All that to say that it makes sense to be informed on the topic and to use that information to take precautions when dealing with lead, especially around children and pregnant women.

Where you will get into trouble is if you pretend that lead exposure can't possibly cause any issues, if you intentionally ignore reasonable safety precautions, or if you don't take the time to educate yourself on the topic as it applies to you and your activities.
 
Also keep in mind that the heavy restrictions on the use of leaded gasoline, and other uses of lead have reduced blood lead levels dramatically in the U.S. They are currently around 15x lower than they were back in the 1970s.
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This makes me question some of the claims of the "no lead at all, ever" camp. However, doing so would make me guilty of the fallacy of logic that they use.

My initial thought was "if kids today have 15x lower lead levels, why aren't they 15x smarter??" :rolleyes:

Until a thought a few seconds longer and realized that would be using the same "if A, then B" logic comparing two isolated data points and nothing else.

The dose makes the poison.
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This is a KEY POINT. And, it applies to everything in this world.
one could substitute "lethal" or "hazardous" for "poison" and it would still be correct. Pick any substance you want, too much (or not enough) and you die.

The best practice I know for limiting exposure to hazards is ALARA. As Low As Reasonably Achievable.
 
when lead kills or makes mad as a hatter.

The culprit is the lead styphnate.
Mine got too high; 20mg/ltr at worst.
My MD did the first research and id'd the lead powder expelled when firing.
Now adays 25 is the beginning to worry.
My take on it, purely pedestrian,
Lead styphnate is from firing guns. Wash hands, change clothes, tumble brass outside.
See my and some friends old posts on this forum and some others. "Lead in Blood".
Stay safe,
Max
 
I think you would be right. I have been to at least one professional training where we were specifically warned about sweeping concrete on the range, ESPECIALLY indoors, without PPE.
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When I worked at an indoor range 23 years ago we wore fully bunny suits with full face respirator, hood, booties and gloves to sweep down the range.
 
Lead styphnate was used in the priming compound of the early non-corrosive primers. I think most modern makers have moved on to a lead azide compound. No idea if that has the same hazards, or degree of hazard, but I've heard lead azide is also used in the detonator that inflates your car's airbags in the event of sufficient impact.

I'm pretty sure the "ban lead everywhere" crowd knows this, but chooses not to make an issue of it, at this time.
 
My supposition was that the primary culprit was probably sweeping the concrete floor at the range on Thursday evenings. So I stopped doing that.
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My guess is this is correct. Sweeping is a BIG problem with all kinds of dusts. My question is were you using any kind of sweeping compound to keep the dust down while sweeping? I never heard of "sweeping compound" until I started working in power houses but it is pretty amazing and I use some form of it all the time now in dusty situations.

Many times I've just made my own for garages and cement floors. I always have a bucket of saw dust/chips and even just stirring in a little water helps a lot to throw the wet saw dust down and then sweep it up with the dirt. I'll mostly mix in some diesel and then you can use the compound over and over until it gets too dirty to work and then throw it in the wood stove for fire starter and make new.
 
At least they still have a trap league, but those kerfuffles are what get them cancelled so it's important to stay on top of that.
Around here the last of the school clubs for that age bracket were eliminated & relegated to air rifles until those leagues were banned too over whining about evil this & that. Can't have kids learning to be responsible & safe with tools!

I like Jerry Miculek's approach to handling the risk, use a large fan even when shooting outdoors. It won't stop exposure completely but there is a mitigation factor. This all being up to the individual of course, if it were mandated, I'd be against it.

That being said, any metal dust/particulate floating in the air puts the zap on my lungs. Grinding, welding or just heating a stuck fastener with a torch nukes them. A hot shower & eight hours of sleep usually clears that up but it's annoying.
Odd thing is that none of that bothered me until I quit smoking after 21 years, prior to that I'd laugh at the thought of using a respirator for anything, even handling asbestos. Only raw diesel fumes bothered me then.
 
At least they still have a trap league, but those kerfuffles are what get them cancelled so it's important to stay on top of that.
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Good point.

Our legislature is still in session so I don't think there's been a decision yet. I'll TRY to remember to come back here and post the results.
 
I have returned to shooting, going on 3 years now, all at indoor
range. I had my blood tested, got a 24 result, which is high-I have started shooting with an N95 mask and doing my reloading with gloves and a mask. The level is not at a place where I should have noticeable effects, so my Doc says, but the Doc at
Duke says to use D lead soap as regular soap won't take all of the lead off. I am 87, so not worrying but attentive.
 
L. Boscoe said:
I have returned to shooting, going on 3 years now, all at indoor
range. I had my blood tested, got a 24 result, which is high-I have started shooting with an N95 mask and doing my reloading with gloves and a mask. The level is not at a place where I should have noticeable effects, so my Doc says, but the Doc at
Duke says to use D lead soap as regular soap won't take all of the lead off. I am 87, so not worrying but attentive.
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I had a look at that D-lead soap, given the price, checked for alternatives.
Seems like as Ajax will do the same job providing you employ a soft bristle brush while using it.
 
Duke says to use D lead soap as regular soap won't take all of the lead off.
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I harp on things I would like my ideal range to have but D lead soap is one of the things they DO provide in their rest rooms along with regular soap so I'm giving them credit for it.
 
DaleA said:
I harp on things I would like my ideal range to have but D lead soap is one of the things they DO provide in their rest rooms along with regular soap so I'm giving them credit for it.
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No soap is going to help for the brave souls who eat, drink, smoke while firing their guns. I have met plenty of them. The unalienable rights of keeping and bearing arms trump everything in their minds perhaps.

While washing hands, don't forget washing face.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
 
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There are some deleading wipes (e.g. LeadOff) that you can use if you shoot at a range that doesn't have running water to allow you to clean up thoroughly. They will help you keep your vehicle more free of lead by getting your hands cleaner before you drive home.

I have no information on how well they actually work at removing lead.
 
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