Now, now, now! Surely you know that no Democrat president would ever do every sneaky thing he could to get his way!! Especially no black democrat president. Especially one named ... Forget it. You just don't understand politicians. They all have our very best interests at heart and nothing can divert them from that noble and honorable task.
Guns & ammo today
- Thread starter JimL
- Start date
The "Obama administration" can't pass legislation on its own - they need a bill from Congress in front of them. The likelihood of this happening with the current Congress is basically nil.
What really pisses me off is how some of the online gun retailers are pretending this is the case to help push their own sales. Reading some of those websites, you'd think AWB part deux was on Obama's desk waiting for a signature. We are, as others have stated, our own worst enemy in a lot of ways.
The theory I heard about the .380 shortage was that manufacturers had shifted to the more popular calibers for production. The manufacturers aren't really the ones gouging, and if they make more money off 9mm than .380... they're making more 9mm in a shortage.
What really pisses me off is how some of the online gun retailers are pretending this is the case to help push their own sales. Reading some of those websites, you'd think AWB part deux was on Obama's desk waiting for a signature. We are, as others have stated, our own worst enemy in a lot of ways.
The theory I heard about the .380 shortage was that manufacturers had shifted to the more popular calibers for production. The manufacturers aren't really the ones gouging, and if they make more money off 9mm than .380... they're making more 9mm in a shortage.
What really Pee`s me off is the fact that many shooter`s still go into store`s and hoard ammo then come here and #%@*&^ about the price of the stuff. Buy a Black powder gun,bow or an airsoft gun and let the ammo(what little there is) rot on the shelves. Start shooting more shotguns! Its basic supply and demand. Until we, as consumer`s wise up to the fact that retailer`s seeing the opportunity(cause of our hoarding) not the Obama Adm. has created these price`s, it`ll be a long time before these high prices/so-called shortage`s stop. There`s no doubt Obama would outlaw as many guns/ammo as he could if he was given the full power to do so and I believe before his term is up we may see some gun/ammo control heat from them but these present ammo shortages/prices are our, the shooters fault.
. Again let the ammo rot on the shelf. Buy a slingshot!
. Again let the ammo rot on the shelf. Buy a slingshot!carguychris
New member
The more I've thought about this, the more I'm convinced that the particular shortage of .380 is due to 2 main factors:
- The release of several nifty new "pocket guns" in the caliber, primarily the LCP.
- The fact that first gun purchases and first-time CHL applications by women are way up, and many gun retailers steer women towards this caliber.
+1, and pardon me for the following rant directed towards America's shooters in general...
If you have paid a hyper-inflated price for any ammunition at a gun show recently, YOU ARE A BIG PART OF THE PROBLEM. PLEASE STOP!!
The ammo supply is not being restricted by any new government restrictions or tinfoil-hat conspiracy. Not yet, anyway.
At the moment, it's only being restricted by us, America's gun enthusiasts; we have simply emptied the supply chain. Pardon me for the outburst, but it's really starting to bug me.
That was the case for some at first, but the plain fact is that there simply wasn't much brass for them to load.
Until last year, .380 was a niche caliber. Not much was produced, and not much was consumed in comparison to other calibers.
Then the election happened. Everyone who had an old PPK or Jennings sitting in their dresser drawer said, "hey! I should get ammo for this!" and demand spiked. During this time, several manufacturers introduced guns chambered for the round, which only exacerbated the situation.
Demand exploded, and manufacturers were left with a choice: invest hundreds of thousands of dollars on new equipment to address a temporary phenomenon, or continue to produce all they can under present conditions.
Honestly? If I were them, I'd take option 2 as well. There's no point in spending massive amounts of capital to produce something that'll only be in demand for a few months.
As far as other calibers, I know that Winchester added a third shift and has been running 24/7 for quite some time now. We've been seeing smaller companies doing so as well, and in some cases, quality has suffered.
And this sort of thing isn't helping with the hysterical demand, either.
PointOneSeven
New member
I just paid $30 for a brick of .22's. I'm just glad it's out there at this point.
And the joint that bought out our local Sportsman's doesn't impress me. They had a lame selection of guns for the last year and just now ramped up their stock. And the prices ain't pretty
. Just reinforced the need to visit the local gunshop rather than hitting the chain store for me.
And the joint that bought out our local Sportsman's doesn't impress me. They had a lame selection of guns for the last year and just now ramped up their stock. And the prices ain't pretty
. Just reinforced the need to visit the local gunshop rather than hitting the chain store for me.notamisfit6
New member
I've had fairly good luck purchasing online recently. 9mm at least seems to be inexpensive (relatively) and well-stocked. Now if I could get my friends and family to do the same instead of reaching for my stuff...
Here, the ammo shortage seems to be fading. The once-rare .380 appears to present and even plentiful at the local Big 5, Dicks Sporting Goods, and the gun shop I frequent for my ammunition needs. .22 LR, also one that's been hard to find is also relatively available locally at prices like 19.99 for a brick of 500. The one caliber that continues to be in short supply is .32 acp.
Micropterus
New member
I'm seeing more ammo in more calibers than in past months. Ammo in 9mm, ..45 ACP, .45 Colt, .44 Spl and Mag, .38/.357, .32 ACP is all easy for me to find now. The only caliber still hard to find is .380.
The best part about the ammo shortage is that I've tried ammo brands I've never tried before. Brands that stepped up and filled the void left by American manufacturers. Fiocchi, Sellier and Bellot, and Prvi Parizan have been suprisingly high quality ammo. Actually I've tried Prvi Partizan in the past in .45 ACP and loved it, but I've picked up that brand in other calibers in the last few weeks and it is great. I'll be buying more.
The best part about the ammo shortage is that I've tried ammo brands I've never tried before. Brands that stepped up and filled the void left by American manufacturers. Fiocchi, Sellier and Bellot, and Prvi Parizan have been suprisingly high quality ammo. Actually I've tried Prvi Partizan in the past in .45 ACP and loved it, but I've picked up that brand in other calibers in the last few weeks and it is great. I'll be buying more.
The ammo shortage is purely and simply a function of panic fueled demand. Supply has not decreased -- contrary to the urban legends flying around, neither the Administration nor Congress has taken any action to curtail the supply of ammunition to the public -- but demand has increased dramatically.
As one of the other posters pointed out the increase in demand is due largely to panic buying. Panic sparked by some of the rumors that we see on this and other sites and even in some of the gun mags, which get recirculated and amplified over time. But, in fact, nothing has changed in the last year that would justify the panic. Contrary to the rumors the Obama administration has taken no action to reduce ammunition supply nor has Congress. Nor is any such action on the horizon. There are no bills before Congress that would restrict the supply of ammunition that stand even a remote chance of passage and, for those of you who've ignored your high school civics lessons, the administration cannot unilaterally act to restrict ammunition supplies. These facts are slowly sinking in, and in fact, the ammunition panic may be beginning to abate.
Several of the online ammunition sellers are now either carrying ammo or are selling it on reasonably short backorder. Ammo is now starting to show up on local gunstore shelves, if not in the precise type or quantity that one might desire. My guess is that in time demand will decrease, resulting in more ammunition becoming available for shooters.
As one of the other posters pointed out the increase in demand is due largely to panic buying. Panic sparked by some of the rumors that we see on this and other sites and even in some of the gun mags, which get recirculated and amplified over time. But, in fact, nothing has changed in the last year that would justify the panic. Contrary to the rumors the Obama administration has taken no action to reduce ammunition supply nor has Congress. Nor is any such action on the horizon. There are no bills before Congress that would restrict the supply of ammunition that stand even a remote chance of passage and, for those of you who've ignored your high school civics lessons, the administration cannot unilaterally act to restrict ammunition supplies. These facts are slowly sinking in, and in fact, the ammunition panic may be beginning to abate.
Several of the online ammunition sellers are now either carrying ammo or are selling it on reasonably short backorder. Ammo is now starting to show up on local gunstore shelves, if not in the precise type or quantity that one might desire. My guess is that in time demand will decrease, resulting in more ammunition becoming available for shooters.
This is not entirely true. An executive order can be used to cut imports (including ammunition imports) which would have the effect of restricting ammunition supplies.
Clinton's executive order halting the import of all Chinese ammunition is one example.
I don't believe that any of us should be under the impression that the administration CAN'T hurt us. They certainly can. What I desperately want is for gun owners to be ready and alert to detect and react to TRUE threats and to stop expending effort and emotion worrying about made up or overblown problems.
Tom Servo's explanation of why .380 is currently in short supply is on target. Another factor in that shortage is that 9mm is typically produced on the same machinery used for .380. With the huge demand for 9mm, there was no way any manufacturer was going to lose time and money shutting down their 9mm production to tool up to crank out some .380.
What most people don't understand is that ammunition makers typically gauge demand and manufacture runs of ammunition calculated to meet the predicted level of demand. Then they tool up to produce another caliber and make enough of it to meet estimated demands. For example, an ammo maker might only tool up to make .380ACP for a few weeks and then not make any more for a year.
If something happens and demand goes through the roof, the predictions are no longer correct and that means you'll see shortages in various calibers. If there's a run on a normally low-volume caliber the shortage will very rapidly become extreme because there wasn't much supply to begin with. And it won't be alleviated quickly because the ammunition makers would have to shut down their production (messing up their schedules and possibly creating other mini-shortages) to tool up and make some more.
Ammo Shortages
I believe that much of the ammo shortages are do to three (3) main factors, the rumors started by the anti Obama people, some, but not all, dealers keeping these rumors alive, and hoarders. All of these combined especially #3 have created the current shortage and price increases, so if folks quite hording the supply of ammo at the retail level should return to normal and prices should drop. That being said I have increased my ammo stash from a normal 250 rounds to 750 rounds and have more on order.
My comments are regarding to handgun ammo only, as I no longer try to shoot a rifle or shotgun.
I believe that much of the ammo shortages are do to three (3) main factors, the rumors started by the anti Obama people, some, but not all, dealers keeping these rumors alive, and hoarders. All of these combined especially #3 have created the current shortage and price increases, so if folks quite hording the supply of ammo at the retail level should return to normal and prices should drop. That being said I have increased my ammo stash from a normal 250 rounds to 750 rounds and have more on order.
My comments are regarding to handgun ammo only, as I no longer try to shoot a rifle or shotgun.
ammo scare
At local Wal Mart 2 years ago I could buy 20 boxes of 45 ammo and expect them to have that in stock when I went in. Over the last 18 months they have been out of stock on most ammo (except for 22) because all the 2nd amendment people like me were afraid the control freaks would find a way to cut off our ammo. Since that hasn't happened (and it probably WON'T), over the last 2 months I am delighted to say I am starting to see all the standard calibers of handgun ammo boxes (.38, 380, 32, 9mm, and 45 ACP) in stock and sitting on the shelves now. I don't see the 50 box stacks of 45 ammo like I did 2 years ago, but its good to see it back. I have over 3600 rounds of 45 ammo on hand at home because I was one of the ones that panicked when Obama won the election. But I doubt he and his cronies are going to do anything.
I'll bet a LOT of gun owners around the country have a boat-ton of ammo right now because of the liberal gun scare of 2008.
At local Wal Mart 2 years ago I could buy 20 boxes of 45 ammo and expect them to have that in stock when I went in. Over the last 18 months they have been out of stock on most ammo (except for 22) because all the 2nd amendment people like me were afraid the control freaks would find a way to cut off our ammo. Since that hasn't happened (and it probably WON'T), over the last 2 months I am delighted to say I am starting to see all the standard calibers of handgun ammo boxes (.38, 380, 32, 9mm, and 45 ACP) in stock and sitting on the shelves now. I don't see the 50 box stacks of 45 ammo like I did 2 years ago, but its good to see it back. I have over 3600 rounds of 45 ammo on hand at home because I was one of the ones that panicked when Obama won the election. But I doubt he and his cronies are going to do anything.
I'll bet a LOT of gun owners around the country have a boat-ton of ammo right now because of the liberal gun scare of 2008.
Interesting thread going here. Some will say it's ALL Obama's fault. Some will say it's ALL hoarder's fault. Some say Obama is essentially a sweet lover of gun owners and wants them to have more guns and ammo. Some say it's all the fault of conspiracy nuts. Fortunately some say it is a mix of things.
How about some common sense. How about avoiding "far end" declarations? How about knocking off the extremism?
Obama has made it clear he is against guns. That's a simple fact. Why get all excited when someone says so and put that someone down? Why talk like O is the friend of gun owners when he simply is not?
He can't push through big anti-gun laws. But he CAN fight like a terrorist and hit small parts of the market here and there. Declaring that he would never do such a thing is mere whistling in the wind. Declaring he has never done any such thing is mere whistling in the dark. You can't prove a negative.
Hoarders have certainly helped make the shortage deeper. But why blame it all on them when new gun designs and lots of new gun owners and several other factors . enter into it. Some have tried to reduce ammo supplies by back door deals and policies. And there is NO WAY anybody can prove Obama did NOT have secret conversations trying to do just that, any more than you can prove he did.
Things HAVE been done behind the scenes and there are a LOT of us who don't get notified about it. That is the way politicians work - in the dark, paying under the table. Why pretend these things can't and don't happen? They happen ALL THE TIME. Why label anyone who knows this as a rumor monger? Why declare that John's favorite president is all bad and Bob's favorite president is all good? Both statements are abject foolishness.
It is a simple fact that people started buying up both guns and ammo around the time of the election. Declaring that they had no reason to do so is declaring yourself clairvoyant. It MAY very well be that they DID have a good reason to do so. No one can prove they did not. Saying the opposite doesn't change fact, it merely states a personal view.
There ARE conspiracies in the works on all kinds of subjects. That is a simple fact. Conspirators conspire and they always will. On the other side, conspiracy nuts are just that - nuts. But why start calling names among ourselves and declare that there ARE NO conspiracies, CAN BE NO conspiracies, simply because you don't want there to be any conspiracies?
Someone said, essentially, that someone tried reclassification as an avenue to gun control - years ago - therefore no one (certainly not the current president) has tried it since then. No one can KNOW that. No one. I'd lay cash money that it HAS been tried again in a sneakier way. I would NOT lay cash money that O has not tried. We simply can't say for sure either way. Why make grand declarations about it? Why flame people who see it differently?
Flat out, adamant declarations of unprovable things don't help whether on the positive or negative side.
Maybe a little middle of the road common sense here? Why not, "I doubt there is" instead of, "There definitely is not," etc., etc., etc.?
How about some common sense. How about avoiding "far end" declarations? How about knocking off the extremism?
Obama has made it clear he is against guns. That's a simple fact. Why get all excited when someone says so and put that someone down? Why talk like O is the friend of gun owners when he simply is not?
He can't push through big anti-gun laws. But he CAN fight like a terrorist and hit small parts of the market here and there. Declaring that he would never do such a thing is mere whistling in the wind. Declaring he has never done any such thing is mere whistling in the dark. You can't prove a negative.
Hoarders have certainly helped make the shortage deeper. But why blame it all on them when new gun designs and lots of new gun owners and several other factors . enter into it. Some have tried to reduce ammo supplies by back door deals and policies. And there is NO WAY anybody can prove Obama did NOT have secret conversations trying to do just that, any more than you can prove he did.
Things HAVE been done behind the scenes and there are a LOT of us who don't get notified about it. That is the way politicians work - in the dark, paying under the table. Why pretend these things can't and don't happen? They happen ALL THE TIME. Why label anyone who knows this as a rumor monger? Why declare that John's favorite president is all bad and Bob's favorite president is all good? Both statements are abject foolishness.
It is a simple fact that people started buying up both guns and ammo around the time of the election. Declaring that they had no reason to do so is declaring yourself clairvoyant. It MAY very well be that they DID have a good reason to do so. No one can prove they did not. Saying the opposite doesn't change fact, it merely states a personal view.
There ARE conspiracies in the works on all kinds of subjects. That is a simple fact. Conspirators conspire and they always will. On the other side, conspiracy nuts are just that - nuts. But why start calling names among ourselves and declare that there ARE NO conspiracies, CAN BE NO conspiracies, simply because you don't want there to be any conspiracies?
Someone said, essentially, that someone tried reclassification as an avenue to gun control - years ago - therefore no one (certainly not the current president) has tried it since then. No one can KNOW that. No one. I'd lay cash money that it HAS been tried again in a sneakier way. I would NOT lay cash money that O has not tried. We simply can't say for sure either way. Why make grand declarations about it? Why flame people who see it differently?
Flat out, adamant declarations of unprovable things don't help whether on the positive or negative side.
Maybe a little middle of the road common sense here? Why not, "I doubt there is" instead of, "There definitely is not," etc., etc., etc.?
Crankylove
New member
They did close some of thier stores, but not 80%. Last time I was chatting with the local store (which is about 1/4 mile from Corporate Headquarters) they listed 22 stores as closed.
They recently aquired new ownership, and are trying to bring stock back up to "acceptable levels", as they were in some serious finanial trouble with thier suppliers before being sold to the new owners, and were having a hard time purchasing from vendors they already owed 6 figure amounts to (or more).
With all due respect, the situation I described at Winchester is provable. They have definitely increased shifts and production. I can explain how the retrofitting for the equipment works. The behavior I've seen with some of the hoarders is also provable. I can go to any local gun show and see them selling ammunition, some with the original Wal Mart price tags, at a premium.
There's also no way to disprove that. That doesn't make it true.
No, of course he's not our friend. If he had his way, I imagine we'd see sweeping gun-control legislation. Fortunately, there are currently some major impediments to such a thing.
This is backwards. The person who makes the initial claim has the burden of proof.
In other words, if person X says: "The president reclassified primers." and person Y says: "He never did any such thing.", person X has the burden of proof to produce evidence to prove that what he claimed was true.
Person X can NOT turn it around and say: "You're wrong because you can't prove a negative." That is an attempt to incorrectly shift the burden of proof which is a logical fallacy.
I fully agree with your comments that the current administration is no friend to gun owners and will do what it can to restrict ammunition and firearms when it feels it can do so without negative repercussions.
I am NOT saying that we should feel safe, that nothing can be done to hurt us. I'm just saying that we need to be very discriminating about what we accept as truth and even MORE discriminating about what we pass on as truth or we (the collective gun community) will end up chasing our own tails--expending effort in useless directions.
Which brings me to this summation:
No credible evidence has been provided that supports the allegations that actions taken either overtly or covertly by the current administration have contributed in any significant manner to the ammunition shortage that now exists.
The current ammunition/firearm shortage is easily explained and the causes are easily documented.
