Guns allowed in apartments?

I actually had this happen to me once. The senior leasing agent came over to do some repairs and we were pretty good friends. I had my gun on my night stand and had forgot to put it up after cleaning it. He saw it and I thought "uh oh." He said what kinda gun is that, I explained the details and showed him the rest of the arsenal. He asked if they were all legal and said the lease said nothing in it about not owning handguns/long guns and its legal in the state. I was out of the woods so if it says nothing in the lease, its legal for you to own a gun I would say its a "dont ask, dont tell matter." Thats just my opinion though. To each their own. He did trust my judgement on the legality of each gun and they did do a background check before I could move in.
 
If it's not in the lease, then don't worry about it.

I lived in an apartment when I was going to college here in Minnesota... back in 2007. The lease said no firearms, but I pointed out that this was actually in violation of state law- our CCW law has a clause specifically stating that a landlord cannot forbit a tenant or a tenant's guest from the lawful possession or carry of firearms.
 
Madcap_Magician said:
...The lease said no firearms, but I pointed out that this was actually in violation of state law- our CCW law has a clause specifically stating that a landlord cannot forbit a tenant or a tenant's guest from the lawful possession or carry of firearms.
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I think there may be a couple of other States that also prohibit a "no guns" clause in a lease. But they are a tiny minority.

Absent a state law (statute or court decision) prohibiting a "no guns" clause in a lease, they would generally be enforceable and be grounds for an eviction if the tenant had a gun on premises in violation of the lease.
 
Lawful Contract

There's something in contract law that claims it is illegal to enter into an unlawful agreement. The law nulifies anything in a contract that is unlawful. If the 2nd Amendment is the "Supreme law of the land", and it is, then anything that contradicts this law is unlawful and cannot be prohibited by contract. At least that's the way I understand it. The Supreme court ruled twice, once in Heller & again in McDonald, that citizen's have the RIGHT to keep and bear arms within their homes for self defence (the arguments of this right extending beyond the home not withstanding). The McDonald ruling applies this law against all the states & their subdivisions. This is the law - at least as I understand it. The Supreme court did NOT rule that only homeowners have this right, nor that only landlords have this right. If so that makes it discriminatory and therefore a privlege of home ownership, not an individual right. I'm not sure what to make of the homeless, according to the Supreme court the homeless have no rights and therefore all the government has to do to take all of our rights away is to take our homes away. Something VERY fascist in this conclusion and I find it very freightening if it is true........
 
like everyone has said, no need to worry about it if it's not in the lease. even if it were i would violate it because i wouldn't care. it's not a criminal act, kinda like having a pet or smoking in a unit that does not allow it. i dont know about the legality of restricting guns in this case but any business can certainly restrict guns on their property by posting it without violating your rights.
 
rts99 said:
There's something in contract law that claims it is illegal to enter into an unlawful agreement. The law nulifies anything in a contract that is unlawful. ...
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There's a whole lot you don't understand about the law and a whole lot that's incorrect in your post. I'm out right now working on my iPhone, so I'll go into it in detail when I get home to my computer.
 
rts99, welcome to TFL!

There are several flaws in your statements. I've broken your post up into several sections so that I can deal with them one at a time.
rts99 said:
There's something in contract law that claims it is illegal to enter into an unlawful agreement. The law nulifies anything in a contract that is unlawful. . . .
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As a general rule, yes, but it is not illegal for a private property owner to determine whether or not firearms will be allowed on his or her property. As I understand from previous posts, there may be some states with statutes that supersede this principle, but setting those aside, the owner of property is typically allowed to set the rules for licensees or tenants on the property. This is not a constitutional matter, but a contractual matter. In an apartment setting, the owner we're talking about is the landlord, and he (or more likely the corporate "it") is free to set that restriction. (Unless, of course, the government is the landlord, in which case the 2A should apply.)

rts99 said:
. . . .If the 2nd Amendment is the "Supreme law of the land", and it is, then anything that contradicts this law is unlawful and cannot be prohibited by contract. At least that's the way I understand it. The Supreme court ruled twice, once in Heller & again in McDonald, that citizen's have the RIGHT to keep and bear arms within their homes for self defence (the arguments of this right extending beyond the home not withstanding). The McDonald ruling applies this law against all the states & their subdivisions. This is the law - at least as I understand it.. . . .
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The US Constitution does many things. It enumerates rights, it limits governmental actions. It does not define or limit the relationship between private actors, and that's what we've got here: (a) a potential tenant; and (b) a landlord. These are private (non-governmental) actors to whom the US Constitution simply doesn't apply. If the landlord says "no guns in my buildings," that's his right. That is not a governmental infringement to which the 2A refers.

rts99 said:
. . . .The Supreme court did NOT rule that only homeowners have this right, nor that only landlords have this right. If so that makes it discriminatory and therefore a privlege of home ownership, not an individual right. I'm not sure what to make of the homeless, according to the Supreme court the homeless have no rights and therefore all the government has to do to take all of our rights away is to take our homes away. Something VERY fascist in this conclusion and I find it very freightening if it is true........ . . . .
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See above. This is a contract matter, not a constitutional one. If the landlord doesn't want guns on his/her/its privately owned property, it is perfectly within its rights to ban them, unless some other statute applies. The RKBA is a fundamental, individual right that on which the government is prohibited from infringing.
 
rts99 You have the right to waive your rights. As long as it’s voluntary, you can do it by contract.

The Constitution is a set of design parameters, or boundary conditions, for the creation of law. Laws (and contracts) regulate private society, not the Constitution.
When it comes to contracts, laws also set the boundary conditions for them.

In a landlord/tenant agreement, the landlord states the terms under which he will rent the property to the tenant. In that contract, he describes the various rights that he retains with respect to the property, and the rights he is surrendering to the tenant in exchange for the rent (selling you the ability to exercise rights on his property.).
Basically, a "no gun" policy of a landlord ... is where he isn’t selling you the right to have your gun on his property.
 
I would not like my tenants to own firearms if they were college aged, because of the prevalence of alcohol abuse in that age group.

Alcohol, guns and raging hormones are not a happy combination.
 
Quote:
As a landlord and a supporter of guns rights I do not call out firearms in my lease. But I can tell you I would prefer that my teneants are not armed.

One question...why?
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Sounds like you’ve never made rounds collecting rent...;)
it can be more "fun" than repossessing cars. I managed a bunch of HUD subsidized stuff for a long time. Most try to put you off. When they pay their portion, it’s in cash. Typically, the neighborhoods are very active and a bit less than 1st class. It made life interesting. :D

With my own properties, I don't do "no guns" or HUD.
 
Spats McGee said:
what we've got here: (a) a potential tenant; and (b) a landlord. These are private (non-governmental) actors to whom the US Constitution simply doesn't apply. If the landlord says "no guns in my buildings," that's his right. That is not a governmental infringement to which the 2A refers.
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Just curious though...Since there are some apartments/housing owned privately, but is contracted through a state low income housing assistance program(state pays a % of rent), would the owner/landloard be able to place a restriction on firearms as well? I am sure the answer would more then likely be within the contract between the owner/landloard and the state low income housing program itself.
 
Not necessarily, FC. That situation is a little murky, but if it were solely a matter of the contract between the State and the private landlord, wouldn't the State be able to avoid its constitutional restrictions simply by contracting out services for low income housing? That doesn't seem right, now does it? ;)

I've never litigated this issue, but my hunch is that the private landlord must comply with (most of) the State's restrictions, because it's accepting public money, and operating as an extension of the State. By the same token, its employees may be entitled to some of the State's advantages, such as qualified immunity.
 
Fishing_Cabin, The way the Section 8 Regional housing contracts worked here ... The prospective tenant would come to you with either their transfer papers or their approval papers. Those included HAP (housing assistance program) Contract, a W-9, a lead hazard statement (paint, not bullets :D), and some other BS stuff.
The rental agreement/lease was another document drawn up by the landlord and had to meet the HUD office approval. The only requirements I ever heard about had to do with cost to tenant issues(no excessive late fees and such), and which party was responsible for repairs/damages/etc. I do remember a clause about it being "in accordance with State law" or something like that. Basically, the guidelines were common sense and the Lease was just like a regular one.

I did hear some flap about guns from tenants who said the HUD office had mentioned them. It was just a rumor and I really didn’t care about things that were between the tenants and the HUD office. I did hear an inspector ask a tenant if she had a gun. (her answer was "no") It might have been just part of a conversation rather than part of the inspection. I’ve been present at hundreds of inspections of units and only heard guns brought up the one time.
 
Thanks Spats, and animal.

I have a neighbor who ownes several houses in the rental assistance program here. I always was curious how the contract would work in reference to firearms. Thanks for the information.
 
My apt isnt connected with campus in any way. It doesn't say anything about firearms in the lease but I asked my landlord to make sure before I moved in. Should have seen the looks on the neighbors faces when I carrying the rifle cases when I was moving in.
 
whitefeathersniper said:
My apt isnt connected with campus in any way. It doesn't say anything about firearms in the lease but I asked my landlord to make sure before I moved in. Should have seen the looks on the neighbors faces when I carrying the rifle cases when I was moving in.
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And what would you have done if the landlord had said, "Guns? Absolutely not. No guns on my property!"?
 
As someone who's lived in apartments before, be sure to change out the locks when you move in. Do not give the manager a key. I've seen three different managers get caught in three different complexes over the years, they all come in and check your stuff out, or worse.
 
Aguila, probably would have kept on looking as at that time I had a good sized collection wouldnt have been able to hide it.
Our manager lives an hour away, rarely ever see him. The caretaker here is an idiot - but has no key. They usually leave me alone:)
 
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