Guns allowed in apartments?

[ChuckS]

Your constitutional rights have ZERO bearing on private property.

LOL!
I don't believe that for a minute.

For instance, states (if not federal) can define when, why, or even how you may enter the apartment (my domicile). These rules are often very lenient for the aprtment owner but still provide some expectation of privacy.

 

[Willie Sutton]

"I don't believe that for a minute."



Then perhaps a little civics education is in order:

Your rights under the US Constitution defines your relationship to the Government and nothing else. If the "right" that you are trying to assert is one between you and the United States of America or it's government subdivisions down to the local level, you can rely on the Constitution as a place to point.

You have absolutely zero "rights" in your interaction with private individuals or corporations. This relationship is one that is voluntary in it's basis. You, for example, have no right to keep and bear arms in my living room... or in a room that I rent to you.


Willie

.

 

[Don H]

But why could a private party be able to sell me a handgun and not a dealer?

Because federal law has specifically prohibited FFLs from selling handguns to anyone under 21 years of age but is silent on non-FFL transfers of handguns in private party sales to those over 18 years of age. It is a state determination on whether it will allow private party handgun sales or handgun transfers to those between the ages of 18 and 21. Some states allow it, some don't. 18USC922, which I have linked to below, is the controlling federal code for many areas of firearms possession and should be studied by all firearms owners, in my opinion.

18USC(b):

It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed
manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or
deliver -
(1) any firearm or ammunition to any individual who the
licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than
eighteen years of age, and, if the firearm, or ammunition is
other than a shotgun or rifle, or ammunition for a shotgun or
rifle, to any individual who the licensee knows or has reasonable
cause to believe is less than twenty-one years of age;

http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/18/I/44/922

While this is a digression from your question, I felt this misconception should be clarified.

One other point: Some states issue CCW permits to 18 year-olds and at least one state will issue non-resident CCW permits to 18 year-olds. Since my state will not issue a CCW permit to anyone under 21 but recognizes permits issued by any state or county, some people in that 18-21 category have applied for and received a Maine permit and thus can legally CCW here in Utah.

 

[Spats McGee]

Just read the lease. If the apartments are unconnected with the university, then it's a simple contract matter. If the lease says firearms are prohibited, then they are. If not, they're not. The apartment is private property. The landlord may prohibit firearms if he chooses to.

 

[Frank Ettin]

...it's not clear to me that the landlord can deny a tenant their 2nd Amendment rights regardless of who owns the property....

Your constitutional rights have ZERO bearing on private property.

I don't believe that for a minute....

Okay, I've been waiting for this to come up. A lot of people do not understand this point, but the Constitution does not regulate private conduct.

So the Second Amendment is irrelevant to this question.

 

[Technosavant]

I fully agree with Aguila Blanca.

Legal agreements (of which a lease is one) need to be exhaustive- that is, if there is a rule which is expected to be followed it MUST be spelled out. Read the lease carefully. If firearms are mentioned as being prohibited, then they are. If they are not mentioned at all, they are not. Only that which is mentioned explicitly is covered by the agreement.

If you have questions about the lease agreement, find a real estate lawyer and pay for an hour of his/her time to look it over and answer questions in plain English about that agreement. I would not recommend asking the landlord about things not mentioned... they may try to make things more restrictive than the agreement actually allows.

 

[shortwave]

Take Aguila Blanca's wise advice.
Read and understand the rental agreement/contract prior to signing. If no mention of firearms, you are good to go as you are only held to standards of which are in the contract you signed.

If guns aren't mentioned in the lease agreement, , asking further questions is just poking the hornets nest with a stick.

If there's a 'no guns policy', look elsewhere for an apartment...and please inform apartment owner/manager as to the reason.

 

[Pahoo]

The lease is good as is !!!

If guns aren't mentioned in the lease agreement, , asking further questions is just poking the hornets nest with a stick.

Amen to this and what Aguila Blanca has replied. In a previous life, I use to be a Supervisor of a maintenance crew. Whenever they presented a management question to me, I reminded them up front that if I did not know the answer, I'd have to go further up the chain of command and they probably would not like the answer. Funny how the climate can change when someone falls back on their CYA program. Have to add that most of the time, the question was settled at my level. ....

Be Safe !!!

 

[carguychris]

Southwest Texas state!
Enjoy it!

That would be Texas State University–San Marcos now.

Planning on running for President?

There's no federal law and, I believe, no Texas law, that prohibits a person 18+ years old from buying a handgun in a private party sale.

It is a state determination on whether it will allow private party handgun sales or handgun transfers to those between the ages of 18 and 21. Some states allow it, some don't.

TX state law allows residents between 18 and 21 to own handguns but not to get a TX CHL.

FWIW TX state law allows people to CCW in privately-owned vehicles without a CHL, but the circumstances for legal in-vehicle CCW are fairly restrictive, and the law does not allow you to leave a handgun in a vehicle parked on the campus of a school that prohibits firearms otherwise. (TX in-vehicle CCW is covered in other threads and I don't feel like rehashing it all here.)

 

[Gunnut17]

Quote:
Originally Posted by newshooter1992
But why could a private party be able to sell me a handgun and not a dealer?

Because federal law has specifically prohibited FFLs from selling handguns to anyone under 21 years of age but is silent on non-FFL transfers of handguns in private party sales to those over 18 years of age. It is a state determination on whether it will allow private party handgun sales or handgun transfers to those between the ages of 18 and 21. Some states allow it, some don't.

Can anyone tell me the restrictions on handgun ownership in NM?

 

[Sparks1957]

http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/newmexico.pdf


Since you're only thirteen, you're a bit limited in what you can do just yet.

I'm a huge fan of HK and Sig alike.and despite the fact I'm thirteen years old, (which may come as a suprise to anyone who has visited any of my threads or replied to a post of mine.) I consider myself quite knowledgeable in firearms and other weaponry/gear, and despite my 100+ posts, I joined three days ago.

 

[Gunnut17]

Since you're only thirteen, you're a bit limited in what you can do just yet.

I mean when I actually turn eighteen, me and my dad worked out a plan, I find a way to make enough money, he will use that money to buy the gun(s) of my choice, and then I get the gun(s) when I'm old enough, I'm wondering if I would have to wait until I'm 21 if I decide on a handgun.

And I'm suprised anyone read that already, It's not even a hour old.

 

[Sparks1957]

...and by then, you'll have about 78-79 thousand posts on TFL at the current rate.

 

[Spats McGee]

You cannot give your dad money to buy you a firearm. That's a straw purchase, and very, very illegal. From the back of the 4473:

Question 11.a. Actual Transferee/Buyer: For purposes of this form, you are the actual transferee/buyer if you are purchasing the firearm for yourself or otherwise acquiring the firearm for yourself (e.g., redeeming the firearm from pawn/retrieving it from consignment, firearm raffle winner). You are also the actual transferee/buyer if you arc legitimately purchasing the firearm as a gift for a third party. ACTUAL TRANSFEREE/BUYER EXAMPLES: Mr. Smith asks Mr. Jones to purchase a firearm for Mr. Smith. Mr. Smith gives Mr. Jones the money for the firearm. Mr. Jones is NOT THE ACTUAL TRANSFEREE/BUYER of the firearm and must answer "NO" to question 11a. The licensee may not transfer the firearm to Mr. Jones. However, if Mr. Brown goes to buy a firearm with his own money to give to Mr. Black as a present, Mr. Brown is the actual transferee/buyer of the firearm and should answer "YES" to question 11.a. However, you may not transfer a firearm to any person you know or have reasonable cause to believe is prohibited under 18 U.S.c. § 922(g), , or (x). Please note: EXCEPTION: If you are picking up a repaired firearm(s) for another person. you are not required to answer 11.a. and may proceed to question 11b.

The most common response to my statement regarding a straw purchase always seems to be "How will the prosecutor prove that I gave him the money?" My answer: By reading your internet posts.

Edited to add: As Don H points out below, this applies if the transaction goes through an FFL.

 

[Don H]

Gunnut17, the plan you and our Dad came up with is known as a straw purchase and is a federal felony if the firearms are bought from a dealer. From the back of the Form 4473 that your Dad would have to complete when making a purchase from a dealer:

For purposes of this form, you are the actual buyer if you are purchasing the
firearm for yourself or otherwise acquiring the firearm for yourself (for example,
redeeming the firearm from pawn/retrieving it from consignment). You are also the
actual buyer if you are acquiring the firearm as a legitimate gift for a third party.
ACTUAL BUYER EXAMPLES: Mr. Smith asks Mr. Jones to purchase a firearm for
Mr. Smith. Mr. Smith gives Mr. Jones the money for the firearm. Mr. Jones is NOT
the actual buyer of the firearm and must answer “no “ to question 12a. The
licensee may not transfer the firearm to Mr. Jones. However, if Mr. Brown goes to
buy a firearm with his own money to give to Mr. Black as a present, Mr. Brown is
the actual buyer of the firearm and should answer “yes” to question 12a.

 

[Gunnut17]

Darn, I was really looking forward to going shooting, get a chance to bond with dad, guess my happiness will have to wait.

 

[Gunnut17]

Is it the same thing if say, I give my dad a sum of money as a gift, he uses the money to buy said gun from dealer, later, when I am 18/21, he gives the gun to me?

And if not, What if we aquire the gun in a private transaction?

 

[Sparks1957]

It's the transfer of cash that makes it illegal. If your dad simply buys the gun and gives it to you as a gift (once you are old enough to possess a handgun, which is when you are 19 as far as I can tell looking at NM law), than there is no problem.

Giving someone money and having them purchase the gun is what constitutes a "straw purchase"

 

[Frank Ettin]

Enough of this off topic excursion. This thread is about guns in apartments, not straw purchases or ways someone underage can get a gun.

The next off topic post will result in the thread being closed and probably some posts being deleted.

 

[hermannr]

Apartment rental contracts. Remember one thing also,,.,you do NOT have to agree to everything in a rental agreement...if there is a section that you do not like, run a single line through it, initial and date it. Have the person you are contracting with initial and date the line out, then do the same to his/her copy.

A lot of rental contracts are just stationary store copies, often, a landlord will agree to a modification if it means getting his apartment rented, or not. BUT: You have to be prepared to walk if the landlord won't agree to the change(s) you want.

It sounds like you do not have that problem anyway, if there is no gun clause in the rental agreement.

The one thing I would worry about is you say there are going to be others in that apartment beside yourself and your gal... You want to lock up that weapon if you are not there to control it...really bad...if one of your buddies gets in trouble, and the cops show up, there is a good possibility that they will not care that the weapon is not his...keep that possibility in mind.