Gun Store Etiquette

[aarondhgraham]

In my glove compartment,,,

In my glove compartment,,,
Is a baggie with a few snap caps in it.

I agree with Skans in that

It's simply rude to dry fire another person's gun without first getting permission.

So if I am at a pawn shop, gun store, or gun show,,,
I would always ask if I can load some snap caps to check the trigger.

If they then say no,,,
I assume there is something they are hiding,,,
I am probably overboard in that assumption but I won't buy a gun from them.

Gun shop etiquette is not standardized,,,
I just try and be polite and ask for permission.

If they won't give it,,,
I won't give them my money.

Aarond

.

 

[KMAX]

Freebird75: Hi Power and Hi Point are vastly different, but I too have on occasion misstated the name of one or the other because the names are similar, sort of. I think if the gun store owner made such an issue of calling the Hi Power a Hi Point I wouldn't go there again either.

 

[481]

In my opinion, yes. In our store most of the customers try to aim out the window or past us at the wall behind the counter. If an accidental discharge occurred, a shot out the window would be potentially dangerous, and a shot straight behind the counter could hit a passing employee. The top of the wall behind the counter offers a safe backstop while ensuring no one could be between the gun and the target, while at the same time allowing the customer to get a better feel for the gun than if they were aiming at the floor. Also, having all the customers aim in the same direction makes it easier to identify anyone who may be doing something with a gun other than testing its sights and trigger pull.

Sounds like you have put some thought into how to handle this issue and selected a safe aiming point for that purpose.

The reason that I asked this question is that while I am fairly certain that such accidents are relatively rare, they do happen- an employee may be distracted or having an "off" day, some weird circumstance results in the event- and because of that, I've always wondered why gun stores don't regularly use a "clearance barrel" (55-gallon drum filled with sand and set at an appropriate angle) set off to the side of the counter where customers can dry-fire their prospective purchase to their heart's content.

I am not sure if it'd be a hindrance to business or not, the cost is negligible (about $100 to make a really nice one painted nice'n pretty) afterall, and it'd go a long way towards guaranteeing the customers' safety while mitigating your liability as a shop owner.

Am I "off base" here, T?

 

[dajowi]

When I go into the shops, I ask to not only see the guns, but I also ask about holsters so I can try out my quick draw in front of the staff.

That always makes them nervous.

 

[Winchester_73]

Instruct the dolt behind the counter in what ways you want him to handle the gun.

.........takes one to know one.

Well thanks for the genius rebuttal. Is your goal to make you look bad or me look bad, I can't tell?

There are no "dolts" working behind the counters of the gun stores I shop at. However, I have seen more than a couple doltish customers. A little bit of civility goes a long way in my experience.

Ok point taken. While I have met dolts at shops or shows, my post that ruffled feathers was a poor attempt at humor. Having the gun shop guy handle your firearm, for you, was intended to be laughable but it was not. I do not think gun shop employees are dolts, unless they prove otherwise.

The folks behind the counter at my LGS are the owners. Or their kids who have been there since they were old enough to walk. The shop has been in existence for over 100 years. These folks know guns inside and out. Still, there's always those that walk in and instantly talk down to them and try to impress them and everyone else in the store with their knowledge.

Um so, where do I begin? I'm guessing you go to one shop and thats the only shop you know. In the real world, no, gun shop owners do not even usually know guns in my experience. They might, they might not. Some know Remington 700s which they think translates to S&W 357s and so and so forth. This doesn't bother me because occasionally this helps get a better price on something, but I trust myself more than someone behind a counter until they earn my trust. To think that they do know their business, just because they exist, is just plain foolish. Its a bad practice to have to rely on others for knowledge, its always better to know yourself. Some dealers / shop employees are impressive, other ones are there for a pay check. Thats how it is for most any job.

Occasionally the gun shops get talked down to because the customer is a jerk, or because the gunshop makes a stupid mistake. It happens all the time. I'm not saying talking down to anyone to is right though. I'm not sure what you mean here but for the most part, the knowledgeable people don't try to impress others. Its people who are uncomfortable with who they are who only want to impress people that act like that. I actually do know what I'm talking about regarding some guns, and I don't try to impress anyone because thats not the goal.

You know the one's....they think they could've won the west.They generally walk in with their chest stuck out and walk out with their tail between their legs. Still, even tho they don't show respect to the owners, the owners still show respect to the braggarts

I notice that this line is coincidentally my signature line which is very light hearted. Another thing that you had little insight about. I don't fit the cartoonish image you dreamed up whether you think so or not. Interesting how you can say such a thing based on an internet message board. I would hope you're making a lot of money as a psychologist, and if you're not that, then you're more of a "puffed out chest" internet psychologist than anything. How many times have foolish assumptions caused you grief in life?

Why would I or anyone let on to a gunshop that I know things esp if they don't? Doesn't that make my cause harder? Logic anyone?

 

[dgludwig]

Instruct the dolt behind the counter in what ways you want him to handle the gun.

I think that, if you would have said a dolt (which implies the exception) as opposed to the dolt (which implies the common place), less feathers would have been "ruffled."

Why would I or anyone let on to a gunshop that I know things esp if they don't? Doesn't that make my cause harder? Logic anyone?

Yep, I agree with you on that (assuming I'm understanding what you're getting at). No need to appear smart when coming off as uninformed might well garner you a bargaining edge when consummating a "deal", if played right.

 

[Pahoo]

You control, your call. ...

481 posted:
This brings to mind a question. Is this (ie: using these aiming points as a backstop) really considered to be a safe/acceptable practice?

In most cases, it is but I don't assume so. Although not always perfect, there is always at least one direction that is safer than most. In some stores, I have seen where they don't have a designated direction or the clerk is totally uninformed about firearms. ....

Case in point;
A young male clerk upon handing me a handgun, directed me to keep the muzzle pointed behind the counter. I replied the he was behind the counter and that was not a safe direction. He said that was the store policy. I asked him what was above the ceiling and he replied, the roof, I guess. Still didn't get it. ...

At our station, during our hunter safety classes, I ask the students to define the safe direction at that time. Most are pretty good at it. ...

Be Safe !!!

 

[481]

Pahoo,

Yeah, your response gets at what I have been wondering about.

Fr'instance, lots of folks point the gun they are dry-firing at the floor. If they happen to pop one off, it may not strike someone directly, but it may fragment upon hitting a hard surface (like a concrete floor), the pieces going on to strike and possibly injure nearby people.

I s'pose my question is more of a question to how desirable such options are, especially in light of the option of using a clearance barrel.

 

[Stressfire]

No need to appear smart when coming off as uninformed might well garner you a bargaining edge when consummating a "deal", if played right.

How would that work well? I would think that being well-informed would be more advantageous than ignorance, either real or feigned.

Have never feigned ignorance myself, sometimes I just don't do enough research. This is only usually a problem for me at shows, where you can do all the research under the sun on Guns A - X, but maybe didn't quite make it to the chapter on Y and that is what you found. The LGS's I frequent tend to be very helpful.

 

[kdrf636]

Taurus specifically warns against dry-firing at least some of their revolvers.

Any center fire revolver that can't be dry fired, can't be trusted IMO.

 

[dgludwig]

Quote:
No need to appear smart when coming off as uninformed might well garner you a bargaining edge when consummating a "deal", if played right.

How would that work well? I would think that being well-informed would be more advantageous than ignorance, either real or feigned.

Obviously, being well-informed should always work to your advantage. Appearing not so well-informed when you really are (i.e., at a gun show, for instance), might work in your stead if you feign ignorance concerning the worth of a particular firearm. If the seller knows I know the worth of a given firearm, he's, perhaps, going to try to make me pay the full amount unapologetically. But if part of his bargaining strategy is reduced to persuading me that the gun is worth what he's asking, he may not be so strident or insistent in making me pay his "asking" price-that is, if I'm too stupid to know any better, then get what you can from this ignorant sucker because he doesn't know from Adam to begin with.

 

[Strafer Gott]

And finally, allow the interloper who is looking at your next purchase to fully place the piece back on the counter before scooping it up and yelling sold!
This last bit takes considerable control, especially when it's a S&W model 58, or some other gem.

 

[dgludwig]

And finally, allow the interloper who is looking at your next purchase to fully place the piece back on the counter before scooping it up and yelling sold!
This last bit takes considerable control, especially when it's a S&W model 58,

Yeah, a strip of duct tape over my mouth might help.

 

[thedudeabides]

Nearly all of the guns I've bought are military/LEO grade, also ugly and finished in scratch resistant black.

They're not pieces of jewelry, fancy watches, or snowflakes.

If a Sig, HK, Glock, Walther, etc. breaks because someone is dry firing it, racking the slide, or, God forbid, drops a magazine ON THE FLOOR... then it's defective and you've just done everyone a favor and identified a serious warranty problem before any poor soul bought it.

Any gun store that thinks an ugly Nitron finished military grade gun that can survive being dropped down a cliff, immersed in sea water, baked, frozen, thrown in the mud, then hosed off can in any way be damaged by typical handling to make sure everything is in order (trigger, slide, magazine release, etc) doesn't deserve your business.

...this doesn't apply to guns with fancy grips and finishes that aren't meant to be used as a hammer if need be.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

When using their bullseye 1911's, I have been told by multiple NAVSEA armorers not to rack the slide on an empty chamber or to dry fire on an empty...because dropping the hammer on an empty chamber and releasing the slide on an empty chamber can cause hammer bounce back which will damage the delicate sear engagment surface sooner than later.

This is half correct.

Allowing the slide to slam into battery with no cartridge to strip from the magazine is VERY likely to cause damage to the tip of the sear in a 1911 with a light trigger pull.

Dry firing a 1911 (pulling the trigger to allow the hammer to fall) will NOT harm the pistol, and CANNOT harm the sear.

Beyond that ... terminology. "Racking the slide" to me means pulling the slide back to inspect the chamber and feed ramp. To me, the term "racking the slide" does not automatically imply allowing the slide to slam home on an empty chamber. Racking the slide and then riding it back into battery on an empty chamber does no harm.

 

[Nathan]

Those of you who find all these knowledgible gun store employees should post where you shop.

I find 2 types. Those who let me do my process on guns I will likely buy and those who make wild statements about what they think they know about guns.

I had a guy transfer a 19-3 in super condition to me that I bought online. After he !@#$%'ed around with it for a loss in value of about $20, I just started doing things for him like finding the serial number, showing him it remained unloaded and putting it in the case for him. Bluing is kind of fragile if you are really trying to keep it nice. Don't open boxes shipped to you until you ask the customer! Don't have a 15 yr old dim wit handle a gun transfer if he doesn't know guns, 4473's and the gun is worth more than he has made in his entire life! Don't drag it on the counter! Don't open the cylinder needlessly! Don't pull the hammer back half way and lower it! Last, if the customer has paid for the gun, let him do the work for you!

I'm sure somewhere in a land far, far away is an LGS who prices gun appropriately, handles gun knowledgeably, offers incredibly helpful advice, is not a racist and knows how to build a customer relationship.

I was close once, until they had a well worn S&W M29 for $1600, and wanted $42 for WLP primers.

Sorry, rant off.

 

[Smit]

My father sells guns for living now and given some of the stories he has told me, here are some friendly tips:

1. Dont show up acting like you know more than anyone selling the guns. It's rude, condescending, and makes you an unlikeable person in general

2. Do a little homework before showing up. Trying to find out what a person might like who has never even read anything about guns ever is frustrating.

3. Be Nice. No one wants to help a mean person

4. If you have a question, ask.

5. Dont point guns at people, even unloaded ones. Dont think I need to explain that one.

 

[Winchester_73]

Obviously, being well-informed should always work to your advantage. Appearing not so well-informed when you really are (i.e., at a gun show, for instance), might work in your stead if you feign ignorance concerning the worth of a particular firearm. If the seller knows I know the worth of a given firearm, he's, perhaps, going to try to make me pay the full amount unapologetically. But if part of his bargaining strategy is reduced to persuading me that the gun is worth what he's asking, he may not be so strident or insistent in making me pay his "asking" price-that is, if I'm too stupid to know any better, then get what you can from this ignorant sucker because he doesn't know from Adam to begin with

Thanks D-glud for the explanation for the people who may not realize this. I don't mean that to anyone in a smart@ss way, but its not super obvious IE the anatomy of a deal: why some numbers come out, and why some people always get a good number, others always have to pay through the nose, some sell too low, some of the time, etc. A large part of it is how well you play the "game" and unless someone buys and sells a lot, you may never understand it fully.

A similar thing happened recently to me when I got my 3 screw 357 old model blackhawk, unconverted. The seller said "its one of those newer 3 screw new model guns, its not an old one". Well I knew 3 screw was about pre 1970 status, and I knew it was unconverted. He stated that he thought it has the new parts. His "ask" consequently, when I just nodded and said something cliche like "it would probably be a good shooter" (meanwhile it is a collectible gun) made him realize that I was unlikely to pay a lot for it, even though it jumped up at me and hit me in the face (those feelings were suppressed). Due to all of this, and partly what he paid, the "ask" was what I intended to counter offer. In other words, I felt he would ask at least $100 more than what he did, and I was more than willing to pay what he asked me. I do think he might have asked more if I told him what I thought or knew of this Ruger. It was obvious he didn't really know what it was or how it was special. It has the 4 5/8 "gunfighter" barrel length to boot (most are 6.5 in that I see).

 

[Tom Servo]

Gun shop etiquette is not standardized,,,
I just try and be polite and ask for permission.

Actually, that's a pretty good standard, if you ask me

Dont show up acting like you know more than anyone selling the guns

Good point. Not because of ego, but because it really gets in the way of communication. When someone tells me they need and EDC SHTF rifle for CQB that's good for zombie apes at 1000 yards and they know from first-hand experience that it has to have 30-round clips and be chambered in something larger than .223 because .223 has no stopping power and the ammo needs to be cheap in case society melts down...

...and after listening for ten minutes, we establish that they've never even shot a rifle, and they just need something under $500 for occasionally hunting whitetail. Great, here's a decent .30-30 and maybe a 10/22 for junior.

The guy gets what he needs, but it's not what he expected. Why? Because the internet and Cousin Joe Bob Who Used To Know A Cop have fed him a litany of confusing, contradictory opinions dressed as fact.

What I tell people is, don't be afraid to ask questions, and don't trust anyone who dogmatically says This Is Unquestionably The Right Gun For Every Situation--on either side of the counter. Everyone's different, and the process differs from one situation to the next.

 

[Stressfire]

A large part of it is how well you play the "game" and unless someone buys and sells a lot, you may never understand it fully.

Hmmm, I should probably be benched....have yet to run across a real steal

When someone tells me they need and EDC SHTF rifle for CQB that's good for zombie apes at 1000 yards and they know from first-hand experience that it has to have 30-round clips and be chambered in something larger than .223 because .223 has no stopping power and the ammo needs to be cheap in case society melts down...

...and after listening for ten minutes, we establish that they've never even shot a rifle, and they just need something under $500 for occasionally hunting whitetail. Great, here's a decent .30-30 and maybe a 10/22 for junior.

The guy gets what he needs, but it's not what he expected. Why? Because the internet and Cousin Joe Bob Who Used To Know A Cop have fed him a litany of confusing, contradictory opinions dressed as fact.

You, sir, owe me a monitor and a new shirt...I now have coffee on mine