Gun Shows - Free Fire Zones

Glenn E. Meyer said:
The 30.06 signs went up at some TX shows after NDs.
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psyfly said:
For those of you not in TX; if a locale is posted with the proper (30.06) sign, it is illegal for you to carry. "Concealed is concealed" just doesn't really apply.
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There has been a considerable amount of argument/discussion on another forum that I read from time to time about the validity of these signs.

All of the gun shows I have attended in the DFW area have taken place in venues owned by the city. Texas law says that premises owned or leased my municipalities may not post 30.06 signs. Well they can post, but the signs are not supposed to have force of law as is my understanding.

That being said, I really don't want my nice afternoon spoiled by getting cuffed, stuffed and having to sort out the legalities later. I just don't bother carrying.

I agree with the bad gun handling comments, I have done the duck and weave as shotgun and rifle barrels are swung around or resting across someone's shoulder. That zip tie doesn't negate the four rules in my book.
 
This was something I've been wondering about after seeing the "no loaded firearms" (or magazines) at local shows, but it makes more sense now. Even so I'm less worried about what goes on inside the show than what may happen in the parking lot, which is a reason for carrying in the first place. Doubt an assailant would let me run to my car to retrieve the magazine I left in the glove box.
 
The Austin shows have been shut down by the county, yet again.

In San Antonio, the Saxet ones are on private venues. We suffer from our own stupidity for the 30.06 signs from Saxet.
 
Glenn E. Meyer said:
In San Antonio, the Saxet ones are on private venues. We suffer from our own stupidity for the 30.06 signs from Saxet.
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Ah, I see. Well there is no debate to be had about that then.
 
I like gun shows. I like them a lot. I like them enough to not worry whether or not I can carry a loaded gun there. So, I unload my gun, I leave my loaded magazine behind, take the gun with me and just enjoy the show.
 
I have worked the entrance at small local gun shows. We required every firearm to be checked and zip-tied, with no ammunition. Were there people who said they did not have a CC weapon and went by us, I suspect there were, however I don't relish the idea of a criminal record or prison time, so I personally wouldn't do it. Part of the reason for the requirements is that aside from good intelligent folks who go to gun shows there are also idiots. I stopped one young man who was working at a table with the owner, he was carrying an M4 of some make, I stopped him to at least give the firearm a cursory clearance and when I pulled the charging handle a live round popped out and onto the table, needless to say we weren't happy, I kept the round and escorted him to the dealer table (I knew the dealer) and explained what had happened, he shook his head in disbelief.
 
An update for a gun show I attended last weekend, there were signs at the entrance, prior to the gun check-in station (which was inside), stating CC was not allowed. You couldn't miss the signs. When I wasn't distracted by all the eye candy I would check to see if I could observe any handgun printing on people around me, and I couldn't. So either nobody was carrying, I missed the people who were having printing issues, or they are good at concealing their handguns. Also, there was no uniformed law enforcement present. So there were no good guys with (loaded) guns there as far as I could tell.
 
At gun shows, guns are constantly being handled, and mishandled. I have had a ND occur 15 feet away from me; suspect was a "private seller" who had a table, and handed his wares to an unsuspecting customer. At least he pointed it straight down when he pulled the trigger.

I gotta roll with the Doctine of Competing Harms on this one. The chance of an accident is far greater then Al Queada showing up.

Besides, I have no doubt that dozens of creative people could make dozens of guns ready quickly if they really had to.
 
This doesn't really apply to many of the gun shows around here, since most of the gunshows are in casino convention halls (it's illegal to have a gun in a casino). So all the presenters have their weapons zip-tied (brought in by casino security), and if you want to sell a weapon security will take it, zip tie it, and bring it up to the convention hall for you/bring it out to you if you buy a gun. But, if SHTF, there's plenty of knives, multitools, etc sitting on tables to cut a few zip ties.
 
I hear regularly from people that claim they will never set foot in another gun show because their rights are being infringed etc etc blah blah blah. I hear this because I have a "private collector" table at the ones around here more often than not and apparently I need to hear it. Again. :rolleyes:

Here's the deal. EVERYONE at a gun show has the right to expect a high level of safety and precaution when it comes to thousands of people handling, looking at, trading, buying and selling thousands of firearms in the same (albeit VERY large) room. It is precisely because OF the rules at our shows and the enforcement thereof that I don't usually fall to the floor every time I get muzzle-swept by some guy at the table next to mine (aprox 100 times per show) In 20+ years of attending or having a table at the SLC shows, there has not been a single ND/AD, knock on wood. There also has been zero mass-shootings of unarmed civilians, last I checked. :)

FWIW, some of the reason that vendors have to zip-tie their guns and not just the public is to guarantee that THEY have checked each and every one of them for chambered rounds. I know there was at least once - years ago - that I pulled out my stuff to put on the table and in the process of setting up found a gun with a round in it. No idea how or when it got there, but it was there. Crisis averted by following the rules and zip-tying EVERY GUN.
 
Most of the gun shows I've been to check the attendees weapons but most of the vendors are carrying in addition to the police presence. I agree that the risk of accidents in that type of environment is far higher than an act of violence so it doesn't bother me all that much.
 
As people who conceal carry we often argue that more areas should allow concealed carry. So when gun shows are not open to concealed carry it almost feels like a betrayal since they are "our events." So here are some questions I thought we could discuss. Are gun shows in your area free fire zones? If you're a conceal carry permit holder how do you handle gun shows being free fire zones?
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That is not the case in many states; here in Iowa, signs carry no force of law so they're meaningless. CCW permit holders just ignore them.
 
We've had multiple postings of people present with accidental discharges at gun shows. How many postings or news reports have we had of a looney opening up on the crowds at a gun show? Zero.
Our opinions are irrelevant. The data kind of speaks for itself which is the greater risk. Either by presence of law enforcement or the presence of quickly accessible guns and ammo at a gun show (or both), the looneys have decided other places make a better target.
 
We've had multiple postings of people present with accidental discharges at gun shows. How many postings or news reports have we had of a looney opening up on the crowds at a gun show? Zero.
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That's not really an effective rebuttal, though. Anyone who has a business open to the public is concerned about potential liability, and that includes any liability.

Telling the proprietor that they should accept a known risk because it's potentially less than an unknown risk won't work. All they know is that people have been injured or killed by people who bring loaded guns into shows.

These policies are in place because gun owners have acted irresponsibly and dangerously in the past. We keep trying to justify our way around that, but that is what the proprietor remembers when he sets policy.
 
Rampage killers have some mission and perhaps suicidal plans central in their mind.

I think that gun shows haven't had that attraction for that mindset. Certainly, we have seen rampage killers attack locations known to be armed. Courthouses, police stations and cops at a restaurant spring to mind.

As in anything - a person who walked into a gun show with a Glock and several mags could kill quite a few before taken down. In the few seconds, it takes to organize a response - the damage would be done. One should shoot IDPA and watch the six targets from the draw start of a stage that's done in 3.5 seconds.

So let's avoid the fantasy - for some reason gun shows aren't attractors - Yet.

Reason for gun show bans - stupid customers and vendors vs. liability.
 
The logic !!

for some reason gun shows aren't attractors - Yet.
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Then let's explore the possible reasons. One being that he knows that after walking in he will be carried out .... ;)

Say your prayers and;
Be Safe !!!
 
You missed the point, didn't you?

Guys walk into police stations and court houses and start shooting.

Of course, the gun show participants who don't have instantly available weapons are harder targets.

1. Oh dear, what was that noise?
2. Oh, we need to disable the locks or clip the ties on the guns?
3. Oh, where is the ammo? It's on another table - Please give me ammo, sir.
4. Oh, where's the mag - if you didn't pick up a revolver.
5. Oh, crap - I picked up a 22 and there ain't no twenty two!
6. Oh, is this all taking place near where the guy is firing. Maybe he is at the Jerky and Nazi (oops) table. I need to get to him or fire across a panicking dense crowd.

In the mean time - let's say the guy is shooting away.
 
Exactly - I took my daughter to the indoor range. She looked at the ceiling above our lane and said to look at all the holes. Sigh.

I went to the show yesterday and had a good time. A guy told me he liked my hat! Then the check out young woman at Whole Foods told me I look like G.R.R. Martin - :(

I was waiting to see if the new SW 69 was out - no such luck. Did see a Glock 42.
 
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