If it's a new gun, I pay what the tag says. I don't try to lower the price. Actually, when I bought my first new gun the owner of the store lowered the price because he had it for a few years and was happy to finally sale it. If it's a used gun, I ask if it's the best they can do, they say their lowest number, and I ask if they'll take a slightly less amount. They always take a minute or 2 to think about it, but it always works for me. And if you buy more than one gun, you can save more. Me and my dad were both interested in 2 guns. We ended up getting about $100 each off what they were wanting. Used single shot rifles are hard to come by. If the price wouldn't of lowered, Dad wouldn't of bought his. But I wasn't leaving without that 45-70. The owner of the store didn't need to know that fact though, so keep that a secret if you fall in love with a gun at a store.
Gun Shop Etiquette
- Thread starter Ale GOlem
- Start date
Haggling goes back to the days when dealers got MSRP. Back then, it wasn't uncommon to get an average markup of a couple of hundred dollars on a gun.
In those days, you had to haggle to get a decent price. It would entail an annoying and dishonest game in which the proprietor would hue and cry that you were breaking his arm and starving his dog by making him take a $20 hit (on a gun with a $300 markup). For gun people, it made the process a hassle, and the unfortunate folks who weren't gun people just got shafted.
The internet changed that. Now, a retailer's lucky if he can break 10-12% margin on guns. There's really no room any more.
Still, many folks don't know that, and they assume that haggling is the only way to get a fair price. That, not stinginess, is the main reason we hear "is that the best you can do?" fifteen times a day.
It never hurts to ask if the retailer can work on the price. Just be aware that they don't have the wiggle room they used to, and in most cases, they don't have any at all.
In those days, you had to haggle to get a decent price. It would entail an annoying and dishonest game in which the proprietor would hue and cry that you were breaking his arm and starving his dog by making him take a $20 hit (on a gun with a $300 markup). For gun people, it made the process a hassle, and the unfortunate folks who weren't gun people just got shafted.
The internet changed that. Now, a retailer's lucky if he can break 10-12% margin on guns. There's really no room any more.
Still, many folks don't know that, and they assume that haggling is the only way to get a fair price. That, not stinginess, is the main reason we hear "is that the best you can do?" fifteen times a day.
It never hurts to ask if the retailer can work on the price. Just be aware that they don't have the wiggle room they used to, and in most cases, they don't have any at all.
This really varies by location. In the area I am in now there is one shop that lists and sells everything close to MSRP. They are the biggest shop in town and a lot of people do not know any better. For example they will gladdly sell you a Kahr CW9 for $500. The rest are not much better and they try to charge $30+ for transfers.
They will not haggle so I don't shop there. My FFL who is very reasonable with his pricing and transfers opened up because he was tired of getting screwed over by the other FFLs in the market.
In the 18 months he has been open he has gone from a part time evening shop to a full time 6 days a week shop. Employees of the other MSRP shop buy and transfer guns at the newer FFL. LOL
At the LGS in the town where I live, I have heard the owner tell hagaling customers "This is our price, take it or leave it!" At first, I thought it rude, but I began comparing his prices to the internet and other gun shops. I found that his prices are already near the bottom of the scale! I learned a lesson -Be knowledgable of the product I am looking for before I go to a shop and hagal. It saves embarassment for the purchaser and does not make the shop owner think everyone is trying to screw him!
I also found out that this shop gives a 4% store credit on the purchase price of a new gun! This pretty much negates the state sales tax! Gotta love local business!
Ale GOlem said:
Before you walk in the door (or rather, before you engage the salesman) ask yourself if you know generally what you want:
- a rifle, handgun or shotgun?
- for what purpose (first gun? general plinking? target/paper punching? hunting? self defense? etc)
- do you already have a line/interest on some weapon types (revolver/auto; bolt action/autoloader?)
- do you have a caliber/cartridge in mind?
If you can generally open the conversation with these ideas in your head, and then listen to what you are told, you will do fine. Good gunshops will spend some time w/ new shooters, since even if you don't buy the first time you will likely come back the second....
If you get the feeling you are being talked down to, or that the salesman doesn't have the interest to spend those few minutes with you, quietly thank him and walk out.
If you get the feeling that the salesman is steering you to weapons you clearly aren't interested in--and won't accept your gentle guidance back to the subject--quietly thank him and walk out.
And if you in any way feel that he's being an arrogant so`n so, simply walk out.
But chances are they will treat you well, and you will do well.
postscript: If it's any gun with an exposed hammer, test the trigger pull with the second joint of your other index finger between the frame and that hammer to keep it from going all the way. If it's hammerless, ask the salesman to check for empty and permission first, "May I test the trigger?" and if then point whatever it is well away from people and preferably into a corner/generally down towards ground.
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SalePeople can talk you out of purchases
Have been looking for an inexpensive single action 22 pistol. Not something to take to Camp Perry, just something to take out to the old landfill to shoot old greenbean cans with. Did some surfing on this here internet & found Taylor's has their 22 single action Plinkerton on clearance for $150. With this knowledge I went to the LGS to find out the price for shipping, handling, store commision, and the original $150 would come to. Having never owned or shot a Taylor product, I asked the young man behind the counter if they had ever sold any Taylor's single action revolvers. He replied they didn't carry em due to the fact that nobody around here liked em. I replied that I liked single actions and had a couple and was going to get a couple more in the near future. He looked at me and informed me that the only thing single actions were good for was CASS events where people dress up like Matt Dillion. I said thank you and walked out.
He not only lost a sale, he lost a customer. I have been buying misc stuff in that store for years. Mainly due to it being close. Not any more, I'll drive a little further to a store where the sales people threat you like a customer instead of the village idiot. I still don't know about that Taylor's 22. He might have talked me out of purchasing my most favorite handgun of all time or saved me a couple hundred bucks. I may never know..
Have been looking for an inexpensive single action 22 pistol. Not something to take to Camp Perry, just something to take out to the old landfill to shoot old greenbean cans with. Did some surfing on this here internet & found Taylor's has their 22 single action Plinkerton on clearance for $150. With this knowledge I went to the LGS to find out the price for shipping, handling, store commision, and the original $150 would come to. Having never owned or shot a Taylor product, I asked the young man behind the counter if they had ever sold any Taylor's single action revolvers. He replied they didn't carry em due to the fact that nobody around here liked em. I replied that I liked single actions and had a couple and was going to get a couple more in the near future. He looked at me and informed me that the only thing single actions were good for was CASS events where people dress up like Matt Dillion. I said thank you and walked out. He not only lost a sale, he lost a customer. I have been buying misc stuff in that store for years. Mainly due to it being close. Not any more, I'll drive a little further to a store where the sales people threat you like a customer instead of the village idiot. I still don't know about that Taylor's 22. He might have talked me out of purchasing my most favorite handgun of all time or saved me a couple hundred bucks. I may never know..
checkmyswag
New member
I suggest a Ruger 22 pistol.
Mehavey had good advice. Hope you have multiple shops to check out. Unfortunately a lot of folks don't have many shop options and get stuck going to a moody/less than civil shop. Im fortunate that I've got a couple decent shops to go to as well as Academy.
Mehavey had good advice. Hope you have multiple shops to check out. Unfortunately a lot of folks don't have many shop options and get stuck going to a moody/less than civil shop. Im fortunate that I've got a couple decent shops to go to as well as Academy.
Yep, that'll happen. Thing is, I can sell you one gun and make a decent margin in that one instance, or I can build a relationship, which is more profitable in the long run. Factor in referrals, people returning for services, and instruction, and the choice should be clear.
At least, it should be to anyone with any business acumen. Until recently, that's been in short supply in the gun business.
ScottRiqui
New member
You bring up interesting points (services, instruction, etcetera). Since guns are pretty much a commodity item (excluding customs), what are some of the ways you'd like to see a brick-and-mortar store add value to the transaction? I like seeing things like a shooting range attached to the store (especially if they have a variety of guns to rent), extremely knowledgeable sales staff, an on-site gunsmith, training courses, and a wide variety of accessories.
What else really sets a store apart in your mind?
vranasaurus
New member
Get an idea of what you're looking for before you go. This includes prices an features.
The guy behind the counter is not necessarily an expert. You may get a load of bull making you wish you had worn your waders. Even so its best to just nod and not argue. Remember everyone has their favorite brands and salesmen are no different. Keep this in mind when listening to any recommendations. Many times they will bad mouth a brand they don't sell.
Don't comment on other peoples choices or purchases unless you have something good to say.
I've only ever haggled on one gun. It was a new gun that had been in the shop for ten years and had some surface rust. I was planning to have it refinished and I was able to get a deal.
The guy behind the counter is not necessarily an expert. You may get a load of bull making you wish you had worn your waders. Even so its best to just nod and not argue. Remember everyone has their favorite brands and salesmen are no different. Keep this in mind when listening to any recommendations. Many times they will bad mouth a brand they don't sell.
Don't comment on other peoples choices or purchases unless you have something good to say.
I've only ever haggled on one gun. It was a new gun that had been in the shop for ten years and had some surface rust. I was planning to have it refinished and I was able to get a deal.
You (I'm using second-person because it's convenient) have to be able to bankroll all that, and that means serious planning up-front.
If you're going to have a range, there are zoning and construction issues, as well as OSHA and EPA regulations. Dealing in lead means having plans in place for abatement and removal. That's a lot of capital, and it has to be spent before the you're even sure you'll make any money.
Gunsmiths (good ones, not just a guy who "went to Glock school") don't work cheap, and again, capital will be have to be spent setting up a shop, lathe, milling machine, and other equipment. If he'll be doing bluing, that's another set of regulations from the EPA.
Having fun yet? If you can manage it, both things are huge sales drivers, and they'll make up for the lack of margin from gun sales. Here's the thing: the guns are not your money maker. The stuff supplementing them is.
That also means people. Your gunsmith? He needs to be a guy who's willing to talk to his customers, not someone who holes up in the shop and tells folks "I'll get to it when I get to it." Same goes for instructors. I'll trade ten Delta Force Elite Ninjas for one amiable person who can actually talk to (rather than down to) people.
Hire clerks who know retail. The gun stuff can be learned. You'll have a couple of folks on staff who are knowledgeable. A clerk who's not afraid to say, "I'm not sure, let me ask Barry" is worth ten Armchair Commandos who give customers bum recommendations.
Then there's insurance. You need a lot of it.
You also need a good attorney. Not some pre-paid legal service, but one on retainer. Someone will shoot themselves in the foot with a gun they bought from you, and they'll try to sue. Someone will shoot themselves in the foot in the parking lot with a gun they didn't buy from you, and they'll try to sue. Someone will shoot someone else in the foot on your salesfloor while showing off, and they'll try to sue. Someone will buy a gun from you, sell it to his brother, who sells it to a guy who shoots himself in the foot with it, and they'll try to sue.
Still interested? It's doable. The theme here is that the gun industry is populated with tons of gun people, but few business people. The former group is taking us nowhere, but the latter group can do well if they're willing to put serious money and effort in from the beginning.
ScottRiqui
New member
Tom - great post, thanks!
I wasn't saying that every store needed all of the niceities I posted, and I agree that most of them are expensive and difficult to set up and maintain. I was just thinking off the top of my head about what I've really liked about some of the gun shops I've done business with in the past.
But you hit the nail on the head about where the actual money is. Guns have become low-margin commodity items, and there's a "race to the bottom" as manufacturers compete savagely on price. I saw the same thing in the custom-built computer market 20 years ago before I got out of it - we went from being able to make a few hundred dollars per build to being lucky to make a hundred - at that was back when computers were still $1000+ at the bottom end of the market.
Brick-and-mortars retailers aren't going to be able to compete on price, so they had better step up their game and really start adding value to the transaction in other ways - I'm not going to pay a 15% margin just so a clerk can hand me something from a shelf.
I wasn't saying that every store needed all of the niceities I posted, and I agree that most of them are expensive and difficult to set up and maintain. I was just thinking off the top of my head about what I've really liked about some of the gun shops I've done business with in the past.
But you hit the nail on the head about where the actual money is. Guns have become low-margin commodity items, and there's a "race to the bottom" as manufacturers compete savagely on price. I saw the same thing in the custom-built computer market 20 years ago before I got out of it - we went from being able to make a few hundred dollars per build to being lucky to make a hundred - at that was back when computers were still $1000+ at the bottom end of the market.
Brick-and-mortars retailers aren't going to be able to compete on price, so they had better step up their game and really start adding value to the transaction in other ways - I'm not going to pay a 15% margin just so a clerk can hand me something from a shelf.
A little burger franchise will cost about $300,000 per store to get up and running. My guess is that a gun store that is going to make money will cost about 3 times that amount.
A question to those who own/worked in gun stores - does being around guns all day long make you never want to see another one when you finally get home and relax?
A question to those who own/worked in gun stores - does being around guns all day long make you never want to see another one when you finally get home and relax?
Yay capitalism !
I agree that the Internet is making for a more efficient market, but gun dealers in my area must still be making decent money.
LGS had a Glock 17L and were charging $699.00, plus tax ($48.93), plus $5.00 IL processing fee...
I was able to get it from goingquiet.com for $600 which included shipping. I paid a $20.00 FFL fee.
That's $752.93 versus $621.49 (I had to send my FFL a fax with the Florida Gun Dealer's e-mail. I could have done a digital fax but it was easier for me to just send it from a FedEx store and it cost $1.49 I could have gotten it for $620 total.
I can't cry for LGS, in short order they found someone to take the 17L off their hands for the $752 they were asking. The clerks don't haggle, it's kind of like a big car dealership, they hand you up to their manager, the manager will hand you up finally to the owner, but you're only saving 20 bucks in the end for all that haggling. A friend told me that they don't haggle on Glock prices at that store because they pretty much move the Glock inventory at their listed price.
There is still lots of room to haggle on used gun prices though. and trade-ins.
I agree that the Internet is making for a more efficient market, but gun dealers in my area must still be making decent money.
LGS had a Glock 17L and were charging $699.00, plus tax ($48.93), plus $5.00 IL processing fee...
I was able to get it from goingquiet.com for $600 which included shipping. I paid a $20.00 FFL fee.
That's $752.93 versus $621.49 (I had to send my FFL a fax with the Florida Gun Dealer's e-mail. I could have done a digital fax but it was easier for me to just send it from a FedEx store and it cost $1.49 I could have gotten it for $620 total.
I can't cry for LGS, in short order they found someone to take the 17L off their hands for the $752 they were asking. The clerks don't haggle, it's kind of like a big car dealership, they hand you up to their manager, the manager will hand you up finally to the owner, but you're only saving 20 bucks in the end for all that haggling. A friend told me that they don't haggle on Glock prices at that store because they pretty much move the Glock inventory at their listed price.
There is still lots of room to haggle on used gun prices though. and trade-ins.
I do think that owning a gun store makes you jaundiced somewhat.
I absolutely love my HK P7M8. I can't treat it like a piece of merchandise or an item in inventory.
When you read posts of people who just got the gun of their dreams - they're really in love with it.
For Glock fans they really are facsinated by all the different models. I can see how for a gun store owner Glocks just become hunks of metal and plastic that basically all look alike. A Glock fan looks at 15 different Glock models under glass and his heart starts racing. A gun store owner looks at them and says "Meh..."
I absolutely love my HK P7M8. I can't treat it like a piece of merchandise or an item in inventory.
When you read posts of people who just got the gun of their dreams - they're really in love with it.
For Glock fans they really are facsinated by all the different models. I can see how for a gun store owner Glocks just become hunks of metal and plastic that basically all look alike. A Glock fan looks at 15 different Glock models under glass and his heart starts racing. A gun store owner looks at them and says "Meh..."
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
Must be why they all suck around here. I don't think I've ever seen a LGS that looked to have $30,000 invested, say nothing of 300 or a million.
aarondhgraham
New member
There is no universal code of gun shop etiquette,,,
What will get you praised at one gun store,,,
Will get you ridiculed at another.
At the Evil Pawn Shop bargaining is expected,,,
At the other sport shop asking to bargain is a taboo thing.
My point is that we all are rational adults,,,
Why would we think there is "One True Way" for anything.
Go into a gun shop and be as safe or not safe as you are comfy with,,,
To heck with what anyone else thinks I should do or not do.
I've been handling firearms for over half a century now,,,
I've never shot myself or anyone else.
Have your own standards and apply them.
Aarond
.
What will get you praised at one gun store,,,
Will get you ridiculed at another.
At the Evil Pawn Shop bargaining is expected,,,
At the other sport shop asking to bargain is a taboo thing.
My point is that we all are rational adults,,,
Why would we think there is "One True Way" for anything.
Go into a gun shop and be as safe or not safe as you are comfy with,,,
To heck with what anyone else thinks I should do or not do.
I've been handling firearms for over half a century now,,,
I've never shot myself or anyone else.
Have your own standards and apply them.
Aarond
.