Gun lubricants - again

drcohen,

Do you have any interest besides tw25B? It seems every time there is a thread remotely related to lubrication you show up with a big plug for tw-25b.

Do you own the company?
 
When I ran my tests, TW-25B was simply not as good a rust preventative as other products, including Break Free and Eezox. It was clearly good, and better than several others, but not the best.

That said, I still like TW-25B for certain applications. But I *know* drcohen is incorrect in asserting that nothing prevents rust and saltwater corrosion like TW-25B.

And as for replacing CLP, I agree that TW-25B is unlikely to replace it for most military applications. For one thing, TW-25B is not a proper solvent, where as CLP is an excellent powder solvent.
 
For pocket carry I use TW-25B because the dry finish doesn't attract lint and grit. But then the gun is finished in hard chrome so rust prevention isn't an issue. And I don't sell the stuff on the web.

John
 
Char923, I've used Militech and a combo of Militech and 20 wt. motor oil (recommended by an IPSC member and gunsmith). It works fine. However, after following a number of threads and discussions on this BB and others (1911), I have come to the conclusion that you should use whatever works for you. If you clean and lube your guns often, you can use just about any good gun lube or Mobil 1. If you store your guns away without benefit of dessicant and don't shoot them often, you may want to use something that is a proven corrosion prentative. That's why I just made up my own brew mentioned above in an earlier post. Boy, is it slick!
 
It's nice to get some information on the actual chemistry of these lubes for a change.

I'd like to get some information on the following products:

Marvel Mystery Oil

Wilson's Ultimalube

Kroil
 
johnbt, I agree with the reason why you like TW-25B. That was one of the applications I was speaking about above. I particularly like it for lubing pistol magazines, as it can be wiped dry and still provide excellent lubrication and good corrosion resistance, while not attracting/holding lint, grit, powder residue, etc.
 
I just tested three motor oils lastnight in the rain, Pennzoil Synthetic 10W-30, Castrol Syntec 5W-30, and Mobil 1 15W-50. All three failed to protect bare 1095 and 4140 steel in moderate rainfall for more than three hours. Marine Tuf-Cloth and Corrosion X protected until this morning when the rain stoppped. I highly recommend that you test what you use, and find out for yourself what works. Manufacturer's lab tests and far-fetched claims are far from the real world.
 
If we're talking corrosion protection, even petroleum jelly would work - a main ingredient in Cosmoline. But as far as lubrication is concerned, Curuzer has made a solid case for polyalphaolefin synthetics. And thanks for the heads-up on Militech, Curuzer...

Now I'll have to slog through that gallon of CLP before switching to Mobil 1
 
Matt VDW,

Here is some info on Kroil. Real nasty stuff. Contains ethylene glycol monobutyl ether (quite a mouthful) which is pretty nasty stuff. Here is an MSDS (note that you should be using a respirator, and goggles, and gloves when your using this stuff (why??).

http://hazard.com/msds/mf/misc/kroil.html



Drundel,

I trust you have been reading my posts both on hkpro and here and most of your questions on Militec have been answered. As you can tell, I ma not a Militec fan. Slip2000 sounds like a silicone/siloxane chemistry. Not bad if you favor corrosion resistance over lubrication. Generally, synthetics have better lubrication properties and wear resistance.

[Edited by Cruzer on 05-24-2001 at 12:29 AM]
 
"Ultima-Lube™ virtually eliminates metal to metal friction through the use of high quality conventional lubricants as a carrier and electrochemical ionization utilizing anti-friction metal treatment technology."

Sounds a lot like Militec-1. No MSDS on file anywhere I could find. Your guess is as good as mine...Wilson Combat has an outstanding reputation, but its not for their lubricants :(
 
Marvel Mystery Oil

http://images.shipstore.com/SS/Images/MAV/MAVMMOMSDS.pdf

"Mixture of mineral spirits, napthenic hydrocarbons, and chlorinated hydrocarbons"

"Complex mixture of petroleum distillates"

Doesn't sound like anything newfangled. Chlorinated hydrocarbons range from those in something like Militec to those in brake cleaner fluids. Either way, I would keep them away from my guns.
 
Wilson Combat actually does not manufacture anything, at least no more than does Cold Steel. I live just a few miles from the Wilson shop. A very large manufacturer of lubricants for other companies is Muscle Products, manufacturer of FP-10, i.e. Shooter's Choice FP-10. http://www.mpc-home.com
 
Clayton,

Very interesting link. MPC is more likely a blender/repackaging company rather than a manufacturer. I really enjoyed their technical link and their technical papers. Again, very similar to Militec. There is a lot of handwaving that they do in their "technical papers" - saying a lot, but not saying anything.

The fact is that FP-10, and MT-10 contain halogenated hydrocarbons. Halogens are (Fluorine, Chlorine, Bromine, and Iodine). The one thing that these have in common is that they form acids when they decompose (strong acids that attack metal). MPC addresses this directly by saying that they have special scavenger metals and inhibitors to protect the metal. My personal/professional opinion is that this is a stretch (same as Militec). I see no advantage to these chemicals over standard lubricants, and lots of potential downsides. If you are happy with them, fine...
 
Cruzer,I have used and tested FP-10, and found it to be a lousy protectant, and an average lubricant-it evaporates rather quickly. It boasts the same "Cation exchange" claim as Ultima-lube. I do have test data from the Falex Corp. on over 40 lubricants, and FP-10 is rated the best. Militec-1 and motor oil were not tested. The one thing I will give credit to MPC for is their customer service. When you contact them, you get to talk to the actual owner and inventor of the product, not some office clerk that's never even used the product.
 
Cruzer, I just cleaned my 1911 barrel in Marvel Mystery Oil - it really gets out those repulsive carbon deposits that come from shooting Sellier&Bellot ammo. Am I to worry that this barrel will corrode? Should I resoak it in Hoppes or K-1 kerosene? And what about Birchwood Casey Gun Scrubber, it contains tetrachlorosomething...is this a precursor to some hydrochloric type acid? Have I been unwittingly damaging my babies with the "acid thing?

PS: I don't suppose you are member Curuzer...

Many thanks
 
How about the Royco product 634 that is being marketed by Remington under Nitro CLP. I thought that the military went to this stuff. It says it is a synthetic on the label.
Anybody using it? Sling Shot
 
ROYCO CLP is indeed current issue, and although it boasts better lab results than Break Free CLP, I have found it to be a lousy lubricant and protectant. You're not missing anything.
 
Romulus,

Yes I am Curuzer/Cruzer, just a typo when I first registered :)

I don't have a problem with Marvel as a cleaner. I suspect that the chlorinated hydrocarbons it contains are similar to Gun Scrubber. Both products should be great for cleaning, but don't let them get on plastic parts. To answer your question, tetrachloroethylene and similar chemicals are solvents which will NOT release acid. Chlorinated alkanes/paraffins and such will tend to release acid under high temperature and/or pressure.

With respect to FP10 and other "lab tests", I would have to see what testing methods/protocols and which lubricants were tested. For example, on the MPC site, they provide tests under "extreme pressure and temperature" of a bunch of automotive lubricants. Not exactly a relevant test for firearms applications.

In general, all of the "halogenated hydrocarbon" lubricants (Ultimalube, Militec, FP10, MT10) are activated by high temperatures and friction. Guns under normal operating conditions will never reach the conditions necessary to really achieve the benefits from these lubricants. I would also not recommend the alternate approach which is baking your guns or heating the lubricants. Both will expose you to safety and health hazards I just couldn't recommend.
 
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