Gun lubricants - again

R

Romulus

New member
I searched an old thread on good gun lubricants. Proper lubrication of firearms has always been a pet peeve of mine, considering that this or that hi-tech grease or mystery oil or dry-powder space age formulas cost more than gold. A few posters in that old thread said they used fully-synthetic motor oil and synthetic automotive grease. My question, which differs in kind from that old post, is: any reason for discouraging the use of a fully synthetic motor oil, formulated from a decent base, in firearms? Same question for the greases.

Other than staining clothes in CC mode...
 
I have a question too about lubricants. Now my old Mossberg 500, I use Hoppes to clean, and 3 in 1 to lube, or Hoppes oil. However, I have a new AR-15 (oh yeah!) that I haven't fully assembled yet. I keep reading about CLP in the Gov. manuals, and in other forums. Is CLP the only lube and cleaner that can or should be used on an AR? Or will good old No. 9 and some 3 in 1 be adequate? I need to know so I don't screw up my new toy.

Thanks!
 
3 in 1 ?!!!! anybody that would use that stuff on a gun would use WD40 too! Save that junk for squeeky door hinges and the like and get a good high quality lubricant especially made for firearms.
 
Perhaps the simplest way to pin this question down is that NO Major firearms mfg. uses or recomends any Motor oil synthetic or otherwise. Nor does the Military use same. There are a number of synthetics, etc. that are used by both and most have MSN #'s. Mobil does not recomend its syn oil for use on firearms if you care to conctact them. FWIW, personally have settled on TW25B grease, actually a "creme" {Used in-house by Glock, *&*, FN USA, Sig, etc.} and Militec-1 syn oil a ca. 10 wt. that is actualy a metal treatment that is reactive to the heat produced by the pistol. Even when "wet" the stuff does not attract &/or hold firing "soot", etc. Tetra grease is also a "stand-by" for the newer lubes. Good info @: http://www.mil-comm.com {TW25B} usually best $ @ http://www.bestdefense.com http://www.militec-1.com and http://www.tetraproducts.com
 
Romulus - make sure you shake it up before either using or putting it in a smaller container. The Teflon particles tend to sink to the bottom.

Giz
 
Good point, Giz, thanks. I actually came across the "teflon suspension thing" while doing some web-based research...but no one mentioned the "teflon precipitation thing," as you seem to imply...so thanks
 
MOBIL 1

I find it hard to believe that a motor oil (Mobil 1 15-50) that can protect a $500,000 Indy car engine that revs at 15,000rpms+ is not good enough for my handguns. And a $4.00 quart will last me a lifetime.
Somebody prove me wrong. :D
 
Brief update:

I am turning over samples of CLP, ProShot Gold, and Shooter's Choice to a chemical engineer who will bench test and give some empirical results. Having just bought a gallon of CLP I find the excersise academic, but it's good to have and spread knowledge if only for its own sake...
 
about lubricants

Motor oil is meant for motors. And it doesn't have corrosion protection or other properties for firearms built in.

CLP is old technology being replaced as we speak by the US tri-services with Mil-Comm's tw-25b.

The TW-25B oil, like any synthetic oil formulation, will separate. Extensive US tri-service tests have proven that such separation can be remedied by a quick shake, even though amazingly, the performance of the product is not hindered. The TW-25B sister, MC-3000, used on the F-16, stirs itself once those birds leave the ground.

After initial application, TW-25B coats the surface for long term protection. Bestdefense.com sells i think all of the packagings of tw-25b.
 
When you say "separate" what do you mean? I think simply to say motor oil "is for motors" is a reductive statement that doesn't really answer the question of why the application of Mobil 1 is inappropriate for a firearm - it may in fact be such, but on what physico-chemical grounds? The answer would have to include information on the film properties of Mobil 1 versus those of the more "high-tech" gun-specific lubricants.

Corrosion prevention is a distinct subject...more about that later.

Thanks for your input
 
Man, is there a lot of crap flying around in this thread. Someone please backup their answers with some real research other than "my Uncle Hans uses XPH35 in his underwear and it works great." I myself am a chemical engineer and know enough to call BS on some statements.

First, Mobil 1 contains some EXCELLENT corrosion inhibitors in the form of long-chain amines (oxygen scavengers). Second, what special "corrosion protection needs" do firearms have that my engine doesn't. In particular, except for temperature differences and alloy differences, and the fact that firearms are coated and therefore the "metal bonding" crap is overated.

Why would Mobil 1 recommend motor oil for firearms? To sell a few more quarts, while taking on some major liability since they don't have a clue what you are doing with the oil. Forget about it...manufacturers rarely if ever recommend a product for use on an "unapproved" application. Don't take it as a blessing or curse that they do not approve of this use...

Why would I care if Sig or any other manufacturer uses an oil or grease in house? Their guns see a few rounds and go in a box for shipment. They use whatever is satisfactory and can be bought cheap, even if they get a better discount for telling us that they use it. Do you think car manufacturers put top notch synthetic in a car before selling it to you? No way, they buy the cheapest crap they can that meets specs.

I gotta tell you that if you believe some snake oil "is reactive to metal" I want to sell you some property I got in Love Canal. Give me a break. This snake oil is probably a good blend of synthetic oils (bought from a large OIL COMPANY), and some other corrosion inhibitors - it is probably good stuff, just don't have a 'gasm over some fiction a fantasy writer came up with over a cup of coffee..."Let's see, 'This specially formulated lubricant took years of R&D and hundreds of thousands of dollars to develop. It actually bonds with the metal in a highly reactive, tramsmographic retrotransformation whereby the neutrinos in the upper micron of the metal surface are transmogrified into the slickest substance known to man...even slicker than SLICK 50."

The fact that some military bureacracy buys the stuff is of no comfort to me...they probably are paying good tax dollars for something they could replace with, say, Mobil 1 from Wal-Mart. Give it a rest.
 
Thank yew, Curuzer...now I wish I hadn't bought that CLP! And you've chased away any thought I had of researching the "corrosion prevention" thing...Your argument rings true and authoritative.

Back to my initial post, does your argument hold true for automotive greases as well?

Thanks
 
I can think of one problem with motor oil.....it's too thick. I'm NOT a chemical engineer, but I do spend a lot of time working on firearms. Gun oil tends to be lighter than motor oil for a reason. Different flow characteristics are required. Imagine shooting a weapon full of Cosmoline (saw the results of it).

There are different types of motor oils for different applications. You don't use 5W30 in an engine designed for 10W40. Why not stick with a product designed for the purpose you have in mind?

Last, what 'coatings' are you talking about? Blueing (a controlled rust), Parking(a controlled reaction that etches the metal)? Even an NP3 coating wears. You know those shiny spots on your weapon? THE COATING WORE OFF.....and the metal needs to be protected. I doubt you can re-blue or park your guns as frequently as I do. That means you have to protect your guns from wear. By the way, an interesting effect to parking is that the finish itself tends to hold oil. when a parked finish is dry, it can rust because water can get into the finish. Some oils do stay on metal longer (better wear properties). If I'm not mistaken, engines are designed under the 'oil bath' concept, where oil is continually pumped throughout the engine (hence 'oil pressure) during operation. Engine internals will begine to rust if the engine is not run for a while (my experience as little as one month). Firearm mehanicals tend to be less tolerant of rust (functioning) than my favorite 350 small block.....
 
Whoa. Hold on.

Romulus, CLP is a fine lubricant and will protect your gun. Keep your weapon lubricated (not too wet, not too dry) and it will give you many years of enjoyment. Many gun makers recommend against using grease on your gun (other than for storage). Grease generally attracts dirt and provides marginally better protection than a good liquid lubricant. If you must use grease, I have no reason to believe that Tetra or any other "white grease" would provide significantly different protection. Some people use Slick 50 PTFE grease, others say that it is "gritty" and will damage your gun. I honestly don't know, other than to say that if your manufacturer says "use oil" I would use oil.

By the way, Mobil 1 sells a spray synthetic lubricant you can use for guns (Castrol/Hoppes and Pennzoil also make synthetic gun lubes). I like and use the Castrol/Hoppes brand.

George, the main reason engine lubricants are viscous at room temperature is a function of the package of polymeric additives needed to maintain a low viscosity at low temperatures (ie. winter cold starts) and stable viscosity at operating temperature (eg. hot engine). My educated guess is that, while gun lubricants are not purposely made viscous (because it is of no operating benefit), it is likely also of no detriment (it won't hurt the gun, because it doesn't really affect lubricity whether or not it is thick...to a limit). Having said that, I favor using Castrol/Hoppes or some other similar sythetic GUN oil (synthetics DO provide a small advantage over distillates, again in my educated opinion).

Now regarding blueing, parkerizing, and other coatings: so called "miracle lubricants" that "bond" to the metal depend on adhesion directly to metal surfaces - and only steel and iron for that matter. If 95% of the surface has been blued or parkerized, then you get absolutely no advantage from the "miracle lubricant" (the additive sits on the coating surface, and the carrier oil does all the work). While lubricant that soaks into the pores of the metal will protect from corrosion, it provides absolutely no extra "bonding protection" on the surface, which is largely parkerized/blued. Now, you are right that some surfaces will become worn and the metal will become exposed. How will the "miracle lubricant" help in that case? Well, in order for the active ingredient to work, it needs heat, friction, and significant time to properly bond. In a car engine, this happens quite naturally. On a gun, when do significant heat, friction, and time come together...NEVER. The gun only really operates for a few minutes during an hour at the range. That is not enough time for bonding to occur. For those who decide to bake or use a hair blower, they risk exposure to strong acid vapors, and cannot nearly create the conditions created inside an engine (which is where the d**n additives were meant for in the first place). Now teflon enriched gun oils are a different matter...I have no real problem with those. Take my advice, the reason all those "miracle lubes" lose their law suits is that they are stretching the truth beyond its scientific limits. Pick up a good gun lubricant at the gun shop and avoid all the "mop and glow" products.
 
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