Gun Grabbers At The Next Table --

Xero, . . . in many circles, . . . I fit the .

First, . . . I'm proud of it, . . . as Popeye used to say, "I am what I am, and that's all what I am", . . . a reference to our inherent inability to control our parentages or pedigrees.

BUT, . . . I can also drop a deer at 130 yds with a muzzle loader, . . . I can completely and legally install a full electrical system, . . . plumbing system, . . . HVAC, . . . I can pour my own footings, lay my own block, build my own house from scratch, . . . I can build 75 + page Excel budget workbooks, . . . disassemble an Access Data Base and re-assemble it, . . . all the while I'm pastoring a little country church, playing husband and father in my family.

I've totally swapped out engine & drive trains in vehicles, . . . rebuilt motorcycles, . . . baked my own bread, . . . pies, . . . cakes, . . . welded my own wood burning stove together, . . .

Ask those two bit starbuck heads how far they can walk past facebook, twitter, and their government checks.

Yeah, . . . I'm a cranky old red-necked hill-billy, . . . not very well educated, . . . but I'm also smart enough not to have shallow pits of sewage like them for friends.

May God bless,
Dwight

You sound like me Dwight...I can and will do just about anything the most people hire out. I have not hired anyone to do anything to my house, car, guns, 4 wheelers, lawn equipment, computers and anything else I haven't listed.

I may not have a college degree, but I can fix jut about anything...I fix things the people would throw away.
 
Item 1: stereotypes
You should have spoken up to destroy their stereotypes.
No, it might be worth putting a human face on the opposite camp by buying them some coffee cake and asking if they want to them to explain the issue to you. Be interested in what they, as individual citizens, might bring to the table b/c their arguments might be completely different from the run of the mill arguments. Maybe not, but people like getting their say.
If you're a gun-toting citizen who seems thoughtful, calm and rational and you have well-supported arguments that support your position, that would make you a good representative of our position. If all the fence sitters know is Ted Nugent and the people who scream on TV it's hard to sympathize with fellow citizens who carry. We need to change the order of things. Right now, we are depicted as reactionary, paranoid ignorant rednecks who take their guns to bed with them like steel teddy bears. If we become everyday fellow citizens who volunteer at the local soup kitchand and, oh, happen to have guns as well, it might change the perceptions a bit.

You might feel passionately about this (duh, you joined TFL), but if you come off as angry, then you become "that angry guy with a gun whom I met at the coffee shop," and it becomes harder for people to distinguish between angry behavior and gun ownership. It might seem weird, but the stereotype that we need to fight is the news-driven connection between violent behavior and attitudes and the reality of private citizens making rational choices. People who don't own guns, in my opinion, are less against guns b/c they have data that supports their view, but more against "gun violence." No one wants violence in their everyday life, and when people think that gun ownership automatically brings violence, it's not hard to oppose gun ownership.

Item 2:
Should the gov't have equipment that the normal citizen shouldn't?
In my opinion, people's perception of gov't falls into one of two camps (stereotype alert!):
a. The government is the collection of people who provide services to me.
b. The government is the collection of people who happen to be in charge (and I want them to leave me alone so long as I'm acting responsibly).

People who are in A-ville would probably be okay with the police and military have more firepower than the average bag guy (they provide a service).
People who fall onto the b side of the fence are more likely to to remember how governments have turned on segments of their populations and used their superior firepower to horrendous effect.

Both people have trust in their fellow citizens but differently. A thinks that the gov't is trustworthy, B think that their fellow citizens outside of gov't are as trustworthy as--and moreso in some cases than--the citzens in gov't.

Don't forget that these are your fellow citizens and that much as they disagree with you and might not appreciate history nor their 2nd Amend rights, they do deserve the same respect that you do.
 
Be interested in what they, as individual citizens, might bring to the table b/c their arguments might be completely different from the run of the mill arguments.
A very good post, doofus.

(That just doesn't sound like the compliment it was intended to be!)

Many people are set in their opinions and ideas, and they don't want to entertain new arguments. Their preconceptions might be threatened. This goes for closely-held beliefs on both sides of the aisle.

I've known gun owners who have a few cute little slogans ("because a cop's too heavy to carry, hnur...") and a few memorized talking points, but their arguments have some serious holes. When I try to play devil's advocate, they question my commitment to the cause and they wander off. They don't want their ideas threatened. Then they go get eaten alive by an informed anti.

And yes, there are informed, intelligent folks who simply don't like guns. If they're willing to keep an open mind, it's worth trying to convince them. I usually start by asking if they'd like to hear a different perspective. That tends to work better than "mah cold dead hands, hippies!"

Just bear in mind there are some folks who won't listen, and some who won't be convinced. We have to pick battles we have a chance of winning.
 
I'm college educated, from Maine and I live in Colorado now. Categorizing me as "poor" might be fair, but then again, shooting is an expensive hobby. Why would you say gun supporters are "poor" when:

1.) The NRA and other organizations are getting record donations

AND

2.) Good working guns generally run at least $400 and up.

It's a pretty ignorant opinion to be sure.
 
Bugger it! I am a white male(automatically makes me evil), live in Ohio, but from New Zealand originally and graduated from OU.

Yup, we white males are a serious problem. We need to be put in camps for the good of the country, and the world. :rolleyes:

By the way, I can promise you my accent is nothing like that of my friends in TX or GA etc.
 
If you're going to stick your nose in, the best recruiter I've found is an invitation to the gun range. Get someone shooter and they are a shooter for life.

Otherwise I would mind my own business as I don't like having arguments while trying to drink my coffee.
 
Ma..Mar...Mahr...Mahgin...lil help, I was too broke to work on my diction down heah.

:p

I hope you passed some seriously irreverent gas their way.


[Southern, white (mostly Irish, but still), BSBA, MPA, but not rich]
 
Reminds me of a rather arrogant gent that told me how barbaric and stupid hunters were while watching him eat an expensive steak coming from a slaughtered animal ! If these folks don't participate in or enjoy hunting , competitive or informal target shooting , and the right to defend themselves & others....that is their choice but don't tread on my rights as an American sportsman !
 
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I don't know how many times at a restaurant I have picked up my fork and plate, and trotted off to another table.
Or gone down a different aisle at the supermarket, or changed my seat a a coffee shop.
If it don't feel right, smell right, talk right, and act right, I'm gone.
dc
 
Henri Matisse once said that, if he had a choice between saving a priceless Rembrandt from a fire, or saving a cat, he would have to save the cat.

To stretch that metaphor a bit here --

Given the choice between trying to save these people from their mis-guided, mis-informed, self-righteous error, I'd save the cat and let them burn in Hell.

:D
 
I don't know how many times at a restaurant I have picked up my fork and plate, and trotted off to another table. Or gone down a different aisle at the supermarket, or changed my seat a a coffee shop. If it don't feel right, smell right, talk right, and act right, I'm gone.

This is MY coffee house, MY table, MY corner. They're on MY turf, and I probably have enough Kharma in my account here to have them struck by lightning and have it viewed as an act of Divine Grace.

:eek:
 
Given the choice between trying to save these people from their mis-guided, mis-informed, self-righteous error, I'd save the cat and let them burn in Hell.


So being on the wrong side of a political argument rates eternity in hell fire?
 
Well, you can't convert a Baptist to a Catholic, or whatever religion you want to compare. It may be possible to convert somebody that thinks they belong in the herd instead of being a protector of the herd.
I'll continue to quietly bring them around without just dismissing them. If I can, it adds numbers to the shepherds. More shepherds, more safety.
Schooling is what it'll take if we don't want to alienate all the non owners. Some I've educated still don't own any firearms, but they don't run out in hysteria voting to ban them either.:)
 
Quote:
Given the choice between trying to save these people from their mis-guided, mis-informed, self-righteous error, I'd save the cat and let them burn in Hell.


So being on the wrong side of a political argument rates eternity in hell fire?

How about just having to watch all the episodes of Dr. Quinn, Medicine Woman?
 
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