Gun Confiscation in NJ
- Thread starter ethan95
- Start date
that was my first thought. I have a few friends in pa who would be more than willing to watch over her
. But if i don't turn it in the state police are gonna be knocking on (possibly knocking down) my door, thinking that i was just hiding it. I suppose i could do the transfer at the gun store and sell it to a trusted friend for $.01. Then i would have all the paper work, and the serial number released from me.It may be legal for you to legally transfer the rifle rather than to have it conficated.
New Jersey Revised Statutes as of 2008
Was the rifle registered as an "Assault Firearm"?
2C:58-12. Registration of assault firearms
a. Within 90 days of the effective date of P.L.
1990, c. 32 (C.2C:58-12 et al.), the Attorney
General shall promulgate a list by trade name of
any assault firearm which the Attorney General
determines is an assault firearm which is used
for legitimate target-shooting purposes. This list
shall include, but need not be limited to, the Colt
AR-15 and any other assault firearm used in
competitive shooting matches sanctioned by the
Director of Civilian Marksmanship of the United
States Department of the Army.
b. The owner of an assault firearm purchased
on or before May 1, 1990 which is on the list of
assault firearms determined by the Attorney
General to be legitimate for target-shooting purposes
shall have one year from the effective
date of P.L. 1990, c. 32 (C.2C:58-12 et al.) to
register that firearm. In order to register an assault
firearm, the owner shall:
(1) Complete an assault firearm registration
statement, in the form to be prescribed by the
Superintendent of the State Police;
(2) Pay a registration fee of $50.00 per each
assault firearm;
(3) Produce for inspection a valid firearms
purchaser identification card, a valid permit to
carry handguns, or a copy of the permit to purchase
a handgun which was used to purchase
the assault firearm which is being registered;
and
(4) Submit valid proof that the person is a
member of a rifle or pistol club in existence prior
to the effective date of P.L. 1990, c. 32 (C.2C:
58-12 et al.).
Membership in a rifle or pistol club shall not
be considered valid unless the person joined the
club no later than 210 days after the effective
date of P.L. 1990, c. 32 (C.2C:58-12 et al.) and
unless the rifle or pistol club files its charter with
the Superintendent no later than 180 days following
the effective date of P.L. 1990, c. 32 (C.
2C:58-12 et al). The rifle or pistol club charter
shall contain the name and address of the club's
headquarters and the name of the club's
officers.
The information to be provided in the registration
statement shall include, but shall not be limited
to: the name and address of the registrant;
the number or numbers on the registrant's firearms
purchaser identification card, permit to carry
handguns, or permit to purchase a handgun;
the name, address, and telephone number of
the rifle or pistol club in which the registrant is a
member; and the make, model, and serial number
of the assault firearm being registered. Each
registration statement shall be signed by the
registrant, and the signature shall constitute a
representation of the accuracy of the information
contained in the registration statement.
c. For an applicant who resides in a municipality
with an organized full-time police department,
the registration shall take place at the
main office of the police department. For all
other applicants, the registration shall take place
at any State Police station.
d. Within 60 days of the effective date of P.L.
1990, c. 32 (C.2C-58-12 et al.), the Superintendent
shall prepare the form of registration statement
as described in subsection b. of this section
and shall provide a suitable supply of statements
to each organized full-time municipal police
department and each State Police station.
e. One copy of the completed assault firearms
registration statement shall be returned to the
registrant, a second copy shall be sent to the
Superintendent, and, if the registration takes
place at a municipal police department, a third
copy shall be retained by that municipal police
department.
f. If the owner of an assault firearm which has
been registered pursuant to this section dies, the
owner's heirs or estate shall have 90 days to dispose
of that firearm in accordance with section
12 of P.L. 1990, c. 32 (C.2C:58-13).
g. If an assault firearm registered pursuant to
the provisions of this section is used in the commission
of a crime, the registrant of that assault
firearm shall be civilly liable for any damages resulting
from that crime. The liability imposed by
this subsection shall not apply if the assault firearm
used in the commission of the crime was
stolen and the registrant reported the theft of the
firearm to law enforcement authorities within 24
hours of the registrant's knowledge of the theft.
h. Of the registration fee required pursuant to
subsection b. of this section, $20.00 shall be forwarded
to the State Treasury for deposit in the
account used by the Violent Crimes Compensation
Board in satisfying claims and for related
administrative costs pursuant to the provisions
of the "Criminal Injuries Compensation Act of
1971," P.L. 1971, c. 317 (C.52:4B-1 et seq.).
Legal transfer in you state can be made without an FFL. If you were to have a local FFL send the rifle to another FFL (out of state) he would not record this as an acquisition unless a trade or money exchanged hands between you and your local dealer. The receiving FFL would record the transaction as an acquisition. The firearm could then be transfered by that FFL to a buyer subject to ATF Form 4473 and a background check.
2C:58-13. Transfer of assault firearm to another;
rendering inoperable; voluntarily surrendering
a. Any person who legally owns an assault
firearm on the effective date of this act and who
is unable to register or chooses not to register
the firearm pursuant to section 11 of P.L. 1990,
c. 32 (C.2C:58-12) may retain possession of that
firearm for a period not to exceed one year from
the effective date of this act. During this time
period, the owner of the assault firearm shall
either:
(1) Transfer the assault firearm to any person
or firm lawfully entitled to own or possess such
firearm;
(2) Render the assault firearm inoperable; or
(3) Voluntarily surrender the assault firearm
pursuant to the provisions of N.J.S.2C:39-12.
b. If the owner of an assault firearm elects to
render the firearm inoperable, the owner shall
file a certification on a form prescribed by the
Superintendent of the State Police indicating the
date on which the firearm was rendered inoperable.
This certification shall be filed with either
the chief law enforcement officer of the municipality
in which the owner resides or, in the case
of an owner who resides outside this State but
stores or possesses an assault firearm in this
State, with the Superintendent of the State Police.
c. As used in this section, "inoperable" means
that the firearm is altered in such a manner that
it cannot be immediately fired and that the owner
or possessor of the firearm does not possess or
have control over the parts necessary to make
the firearm operable.
In the state where I do business, there is no oversight by any local or State police agency. In NJ, I believe FFL's are regularly inspected. It is also possible that the FFL was notified by the Attorney Generals Office or the Stat Police that the Subject Firearm has been or is being examine for inclusion to the AG's list of "Assault Firearms."
If the firearm is classified by the state as an "Assault Firearm" there should be a grace period of more than 48 hours. I would ask the FFL dealer to send you a certified letter of the directive that prompted his call to you.
1. You may be able to register the firearm
2. There may be legal recourse between you and the FFL dealer if he knew it was prohibited on the date of the sale. Small claims court might then be recommended if the dealer was not willing to refund the purchase amount. Times, dates and records of what has transpired are critical for you.
3. A transfer to an out of state party does seem to be a legitimate course of action. Either your local FFL or you can send the rifle to an out of state FFL for transfer. You cannot legally ship the firearm intrastate except to an FFL.
Keep us posted on this.
ya, 48 hours is quite short. And the FFL is absolutely giving me his version of the story in writing, in case this thing goes anywhere. I never thought about the fact that i should be able to register it, im definitely going to voice that idea. Other than that, if allowed, I'm sending the firearm to live with a freind until i move out of this state. I live literately 5 minutes from freedom (aka Pennsylvania). im about ready to swim across the Delaware right now
I wanted to thank everyone for there help in this matter. Your input and ideas are very helpful. Today was an enlightening day. I wont stand for this, and i hope my fellow NJ firearm enthusiasts will stand by my side. Thanks again, Ethan
There was a case MANY years ago, when someone got arrested for a MAK-90, the state lost the case "ak type", and no pursed it further. While the law did no change, failing to challenge the it led to the ambiguous language rather flat. Note it was at this point that it was "legal" to purchase AK, AR, and other "type" rifles that were not an "assault weapon" due to "evil" features.
The main issue with the rifle might just be that it has "AK-47" stamped on it. Considering the above, and if the NRA would help, this could be a good case to challenge the AW ban in NJ. That is my own opinion.
The main issue with the rifle might just be that it has "AK-47" stamped on it. Considering the above, and if the NRA would help, this could be a good case to challenge the AW ban in NJ. That is my own opinion.
Double Naught Spy
New member
Sorry, but this sounds totaly bogus. If the AG decided the firearm is illegal, the AG would not be having you return it to the gun shop (unless of course the gun shop has been ordered to refund your money, which you did not indicate). Otherwise, the AG would be having your turn in your gun to the police. If the gun is contraband for you to own, it is contraband for the gun shop as well, or has the AG made an additional interpretation of the NJ law saying it is okay for gun shops to possess contraband guns?
Sounds a bit incredible (but no more so that the AG saying you have to return the gun to the gun shop), but I would be willing to bet that upon returning it to the gun shop, you will have to sign the gun over to the gun shop, thereby absolving you of ownership and making the gunshop the owner. Then the gun shop gets a free gun with clear ownership.
Why would I think of such an incredible story? I googled the keywords from the topic and find no other such accounts matching the OP's gunstore confiscation story. I check three different AK47 boards and absolutely nobody else seems to be in New Jersey with an AK47 that is reporting the same story.
I may be wrong, but I can't find anything the corroborate the OP's story.
AirForceShooter
New member
No grandfather provisions?
Doesn't sound right.
Call the SAF and see if they know anything
AFS
Doesn't sound right.
Call the SAF and see if they know anything
AFS
First off, it is an incredible story, but that doesn't make it not true. I do have the option to receive a refund, but that doesn't make it all ok. Why there are no other posts about it, im not sure, this is NJ, there arnt many of us firearm owners here. If you doubt it that much i welcome you to call the New Jersey State Police, who are acting on behalf of the AG, here is there number (609)-882-2000. This is an amazing story, and im not a liar, and neither is my firearms dealer. Heres the gun manufactures number as well, there not accepting calls at this time
(how convenient) (704) 225-8843..a radical idea:
Have you read the Constitution?
Not once but twice, it states that there shall be no ex post facto law. What this AG is doing is violating that very item.
Next, this is your property now and you have a right to property and it cannot be "confiscated", er that is stolen, without due process of law. Where is the due process in this mess?
I am not a lawyer. However, if this situation is as you say, these clowns (AG, and the troopers who would come to steal your property) should be taught a lesson.
Here is what I would do. Take the gun out of state along with any other firearms you may have. Deliver them to a friend who can be trusted. Do not speak to this friend on your cell phone or any other device that can be monitored. Perhaps call from a pay phone or a another friends home. Be certain you have no guns or ammo in your home and then wait for the door to be kicked in. Make no threats, answer no questions, comply with nothing they are demanding. Force the state's hand on this one.
We are either a nation of laws or we have lawlessness...and from what I am seeing all over the country it is the latter. Let this case prove the point one way or another.
Just one more reason why I cannot fathom why anyone would live in N.J.
Have you read the Constitution?
Not once but twice, it states that there shall be no ex post facto law. What this AG is doing is violating that very item.
Next, this is your property now and you have a right to property and it cannot be "confiscated", er that is stolen, without due process of law. Where is the due process in this mess?
I am not a lawyer. However, if this situation is as you say, these clowns (AG, and the troopers who would come to steal your property) should be taught a lesson.
Here is what I would do. Take the gun out of state along with any other firearms you may have. Deliver them to a friend who can be trusted. Do not speak to this friend on your cell phone or any other device that can be monitored. Perhaps call from a pay phone or a another friends home. Be certain you have no guns or ammo in your home and then wait for the door to be kicked in. Make no threats, answer no questions, comply with nothing they are demanding. Force the state's hand on this one.
We are either a nation of laws or we have lawlessness...and from what I am seeing all over the country it is the latter. Let this case prove the point one way or another.
Just one more reason why I cannot fathom why anyone would live in N.J.
I thank you all very much for your concern and help in this matter. as of 2:00 pm today the firearm was back in the hands of the store and i received a full refund (including tax). i don't feel comfortable giving out the name and number of the store, as this situation really wasn't there fault. They were very sorry(and quite angry) about the situation; and also said i can have a discount on any another firearm. Inter Ordnance has filled a law suite against the the state, the gun stores across the state are standing behind them. Last night there was a meeting regarding the matter with the NRA and a law firm from NJ. The NRA has there top lawyers on it. My name has been put on file with the gun store and in the case that the firearm is deemed legal, i will have the option to receive the same one i originally had. At this time there is no agenda for me to join in the suite against the state.
The updated complete story
The firearm i purchased was being sold on a very large scale, upon review of the monthly firearm sales, the AG noticed this particular firearm. The AG then determend the firearm to be an "assault rifle", and there for illegal by law. The NJ State Police were then involved. The NJSP contacted all FFL dealers and asked if they sold the firearm, and told each FFL they had 6 hours to gather the names and info of all people who purchased the firearm, and submit it to the NJSP. After realizing the massive amount of the firearms that were sold, the NJSP told all FFl dealers they had 48 hours "re-acquire" all firearms sold by them, and after 48 hours anyone who didn't return the firearm, their information needed to be submitted to the NJSP, and officers would then retrieve them. I was then contacted by the store i purchased the firearm from. Inter Ordnance was contacted by the state police and made aware of the situation. Inter Ordnance then contacted the NRA, and a law firm in NJ. Inter Ordnance has decided to take legal action against the state of New Jersey.
Double Naught Spy
New member
Nobody has said this. However, the wilder the story, the more likely that it isn't going to be factual. Take the 48 hours. When did the 48 hours start? When does it end? There is no way that the 48 hours is determined by when the gun shop contacts you. It would be from the time of issuance of the ruling/decision or from a specified type stipulated in the ruling/decision. It is not likely to be inclusive of a Sunday as Sunday isn't a typical business day and not all businesses are open Sunday.
So the gun shop doesn't have anything offical in writing either? The owner is going to write you a note. Come on!
But did you call the other gun shops as you said you would?
So tomorrow morning was this morning. Funny you didn't report how all the other shops are scampering around to collect firearms.
But wait, what is this....http://njgunforums.com/forum/index....semiautomatic-firearms/page__hl__confiscation
According to the source there, the time limit is 24 hours, not 48. How could that be different? I am certain that gun shops would not be interpretting the AG's mandates differently as the AG would have made a specific statement. Somebody isn't exactly telling the truth.
From reading the thread, it would appear that the time period is arbitrary. IO shipped guns to dealers in NJ that are not compliant with the law for some reason. Dealers are requesting the guns back for IO, not operating as an extension of the State Police.
The time frame to return the rifles to the dealers is arbitrary. Apparently dealers are contacting customers and trying to pressure them into returning the guns as quickly as possible. So yeah, somebody is definitely lying.
Contacting the NJSP wasn't terribly helpful. The person who answered had no knowledge of any pending IO AK47 type rifle confiscations...and I wasn't the first to call.
ethan95,
There is very little mention of this on the Web in any other forums. This is very unusual. If this were a week day, there would be followup with local gun shops and with the manufacturers distributors for claims that have been made.
You could help others here by uploading a copy of your refund receipt (marked out), the name of the gun shop, a letter from the gun shop, attendees of the NRA meeting or any other information about this situation that you were involved in regarding this incident.
There is very little mention of this on the Web in any other forums. This is very unusual. If this were a week day, there would be followup with local gun shops and with the manufacturers distributors for claims that have been made.
You could help others here by uploading a copy of your refund receipt (marked out), the name of the gun shop, a letter from the gun shop, attendees of the NRA meeting or any other information about this situation that you were involved in regarding this incident.
isanchez2008
New member
Anybody have an update on this "situation"?
I have to wonder if the dealer has this right. If NJ says it's now a prohibited weapon (my words), then they need the ability to track back on who/when/where/etc in the event they want to get nasty with an owner or some bureaucrat wants to show he's made all the appropriate contacts.
Verbally passing this on gives them no audit trail, and the FFL's could claim all the weapons were reportedly out of state / whatever would appease the state.
Verbally passing this on gives them no audit trail, and the FFL's could claim all the weapons were reportedly out of state / whatever would appease the state.