I think there is a little confusion here on the definition of "breaking in". An engine is a completely different machine than a gun. Engines will place more rotational and frictional loads on the bearing surfaces in 10 minutes than any gun will ever face. An engine is expected to perform under these loads for years. If properly broken in an engine will usually last much longer than one that is neglected. I think on the subject of guns consumers have been led to believe by a few manufacturers that a gun needs a "break in" period like an engine when what's really going on here is sloppy tolerance control has lead these companies to tell the consumer to just keep shooting the gun to "break it in" when there are actually problems that should have been corrected at the time of manufacture. The manufacturers don't want to deal with guns being returned and repaired. If we're talking about a Les Baer Match Hardball gun that is so tight you can barely pull the slide back when new, it needs to be broken in a little. But that is completely different than a maker who tells you your gun needs more break in when it won't feed, fire or eject reliably for a couple of magazines and throws cases in your face. If it is that far out of spec shooting it more will not make it right. If you bought a new car and every time you started it and put it in gear and it stalls out and will barely run would you accept the idea that it just needs a little more "break in"? I would not. I would want it fixed.
Gun break-in
- Thread starter Blacky
- Start date
Major Beef
New member
If you can use engine oil to lubricate, can you clean as well?? Like dump it in a container and drop some gun parts in there (a handgun barrel, ar15 bolt carrier group...)
Rampant_Colt
New member
ATF works better for that purpose, Major Beef
We're still talking about metal to metal wear. If you want you can use just the valve of an engine and a bolt of a weapon. The function is similar, opens, closes, holds massive pressure from leaving at the wrong time it uses a straight movement. and has to seat to something.... If you ever get a valve job after an engine is older I've always been told to take it easy for 500 miles as the valves fully seat. Also remember that I included dealer prep as part of the process. During the prep the dealer is required to check, clean, and add FLUIDS. I would liken these activities to the first field strip, clean and lube BEFORE first use.
I think we all know about the break in guns... but I went and checked a few others and found a statements like this in most of them.
"• Before using your firearm for the first time, it should be
cleaned.
• Your firearm was treated at the factory with either a preservative
or oil to protect it against corrosion during shipping and
storage.
• Preservative and oil should be wiped from the bore, chamber
and exposed areas using a clean swab or patch before using
the firearm."
That coupled with shooting is "break in". So really whats the big deal?
I also find its interesting that its OK to break in a Les Bear and not others.... WHY? Will it not go to battery? Isn't that FTF? Or does it not cycle completely FTE? I think by the logic I see here I would send it right back and tell him to finish what he started and why am I doing your work? Fair is fair.
I think we all know about the break in guns... but I went and checked a few others and found a statements like this in most of them.
"• Before using your firearm for the first time, it should be
cleaned.
• Your firearm was treated at the factory with either a preservative
or oil to protect it against corrosion during shipping and
storage.
• Preservative and oil should be wiped from the bore, chamber
and exposed areas using a clean swab or patch before using
the firearm."
That coupled with shooting is "break in". So really whats the big deal?
I also find its interesting that its OK to break in a Les Bear and not others.... WHY? Will it not go to battery? Isn't that FTF? Or does it not cycle completely FTE? I think by the logic I see here I would send it right back and tell him to finish what he started and why am I doing your work? Fair is fair.
redstategunnut
New member
Lifetime supply of bearing grease is about $3.50.
cougar gt-e
New member
What they are describing is how to break in the differential gears. Keeping the rpm's under a set level is how they tell you to minimize the load on the gears. Hot rod starts put the maximum load on the gears and constant speeds don't allow for the gears to cool. Varying loads also moves the wear points as the gear teeth flex slightly. Back around 2000 GM went to a synthetic gear lube in the HD trucks (no fuel economy standard) because the dino lube was deteriorating in the first 500 miles. The Syn lube is better able to withstand the frictional heat, but even it gets toasty and should be changed after 2-5000 miles. (that's not told to you by GM!). After that time, it's pretty much good to go for the life of the truck - but changing every 60k is still smart. While I focused on the highest friction element, gears in the transmission also are helped by the same break in. The amount of heat they generate is not as great, there is more fluid to absorb more heat and often a cooler to dissipate it.
We can disagree, that's ok. (even though I "know" I'm right (snicker
) {joke}The purpose of "engine break in" in the past was to seat the rings and as someone else pointed out the valves. There was significant combustion pressure loss from both and significant amounts of oil being burned. Did your mini lose a quart of oil in the first 50 miles? A second quart by 500? That was commonly expected when break-in was required. Did it overheat easily in the first 500 miles? Also commonly expected from all the rough surfaces rubbing. Those indicators of poorly machined parts being "friction fit" are obsolete (thankfully!). As a result, engines are able to easily run for 2-300k miles with little degradation. Remember when going 100K and not needing a rebuild was remarkable? I do.
Look at it from a different direction. If you were to jump in a new truck off the showroom floor, like the Dodge 3500 someone listed, hook up a max weight trailer and tow it at 75 mph for 1200 miles --> what would happen? That would be against the factory break in procedure as they don't want constant speed, constant load and they don't want you towing, right? So, if you were to tear down the engine, transmission and differential -> where would the wear be? If it was actually the engine being broken in there should be easily visible signs on the cylinder walls, rings, valves, etc. If it was the gears, there should be wear on them and signs of over heated lube. I've personally seen a differential from a Chevy 2500 duramax that was bought new, driven 5 miles to get a 15k 5th wheel attached and then driven in a hurry non-stop across country. The engine was fine, but the differential was smoked.
Also, the EPA does not look kindly on engines that pollute, they don't allow them to burn oil or have incomplete combustion for the first 1 or 1200 miles. The engines have to meet all EPA standards the first time you start them. They are good to go from the factory, it's the gears that are not. If they weren't, the catalytic converters could be damaged by the excess hydrocarbons.
You probably still don't think this is correct, that's ok by me. After all, this is the internet and any opinion is able to be voiced, right, wrong or even delusional. (at least for now)
overkill0084
New member
Wow, this is just like the oil threads in car or motorcycle forums.
I use Hoppe's #9 and Hoppe's gun oil. Why? Because there is nothing like the smell of Hoppe's #9 and it works, and the oil came with the cleaning kit. Secret recipes and exotic (i.e. cleaner/lube/emulsifiers/lotions/etc.) compounds are wonderful, I'm sure. But the basics still work. I have found that the biggest problem I face is one drop of oil getting everywhere, not a lack of it.
But that's another thread.
I use Hoppe's #9 and Hoppe's gun oil. Why? Because there is nothing like the smell of Hoppe's #9 and it works, and the oil came with the cleaning kit. Secret recipes and exotic (i.e. cleaner/lube/emulsifiers/lotions/etc.) compounds are wonderful, I'm sure. But the basics still work. I have found that the biggest problem I face is one drop of oil getting everywhere, not a lack of it.
But that's another thread.cougar gt-e OK we disagree, the fact of the matter is the owners manual still lists it as an engine break in. Its not listed as a differential break in and in truth it still does NOT matter. The fact is no matter how you want to slice it the job is still not complete until the break in period is done. If you spend x amount more for a car and complain about a gun. Then why would you not raise cane over the car as well? That is the point, only that nothing else. And you still did not address your exception for a Les Bear. Why are they exempt?
Major Beef
New member
I didn't know about having to clean a brand new gun before shooting it. I took my gun out to the range and put 100 rds through it and then cleaned it. There won't be any long term damage to the gun right?
You can still drive your car to work or were ever you need to go while breaking it in, while you may not want to use the gun during break-in for SD.
If somebody needs a gun broken in, I can help, as long as you supply the ammo, and if anybody that has a Ferrari, that needs to be broken, I can help, I'll even pay for the gas!
If somebody needs a gun broken in, I can help, as long as you supply the ammo, and if anybody that has a Ferrari, that needs to be broken, I can help, I'll even pay for the gas!
First I don't want to come across like I'm bashing so if it seems that way it is NOT intended. Really I'm not surprised by your comment. I think many times most people do NOT read the instruction/owners manual before use. I know that I am guilty of this as well. I think with the purchase of each additional weapon we go a little further down the "I know that" road. Some of us might be shocked if we really took a few moments to read the instructions! I think a lot of minor problems might be avoided if reading was fundamental.
The funny part is in the manuals that I found "clean before first use" instructions a good number of them put it in RED like they were trying to do there part to get the information across to us.
In your case or anyone that has stopped shooting at 100 rounds before first cleaning. I would be surprised if any real damage would have been done. I don't think its the wise choice either. If my guns have not been used in a while I'll put some lube on them to make sure there is some present when I take them out. If they have been in the safe over a year since last used I'll clean and lube before use. Really how long does it take? Is it really that tough? If I spend money for something I want to take good care of it.
It is a good idea to at least wipe and lube the chamber of a gun before its first use, and run a lubed patch down the bore. You don't know what's gotten into them during the processes of machining and fitting, nor what the condition of the factory lube may be. The exception may be semi / custom built guns where they're received a little more TLC, they're pre-lubed, and probably haven't been sitting too long before they're shipped out.
While you won't cause any serious damage by shooting a new gun without cleaning it first you will probably bake on/burn in some of the rust preventatives most manufacturers use. Some of this stuff will turn into a lacquer type coating in the bore and chamber when heat is applied to it. Cleaning a new gun can also help remove any abrasive grit or metal chips left in the gun from the manufacturing process.
Major Beef
New member
No worries. I should've read the manual. From knowing other people that owned guns, I was just conditioned to think that you should clean a gun after every time you shoot. And never thought to clean a brand new gun. Won't make that mistake again though. Now that I learned how to clean my guns, it actually seems like an enjoyable activity, don't know why.
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