Гражданин, ваши бумаги, пожалуйста.

Babelfish to the rescue! :D

Seriously, if this steaming pile of equine effluvium makes it off of Taft's desk, I'm gonna encourage my OH friends to learn Russian.
 
In the heart of Indian country...

Well, for one thing, with its huge, unprotected international border, vulnerable deep-water harbors, critical defense installations, federal institutions, and crucial financial centers, Ohio is just ripe for a catastrophic terror attack that would cripple the nation....:barf:
 
Un-bee-lievable.:eek: Gah.:barf: And this is what it has come down to, even in the U S of A??? The proverbial slippery slope is getting that much steeper and that much more slippery.
 
So this means that cops get to kill more arab people(UK guy), beat up more black people(New Orleans), and kill white people that have panic attacks on a plane. Just what this world needs.:barf:

/Sadly, not far from the truth.:mad:
 
Sec. 2921.29. (A) No person who is in a public place shall refuse to disclose the person's name, address, or date of birth, when requested by a law enforcement officer who reasonably suspects either of the following:

(1) The person is committing, has committed, or is about to commit a criminal offense.

(2) The person witnessed any of the following:

(a) An offense of violence that would constitute a felony under the laws of this state;

(b) A felony offense that causes or results in, or creates a substantial risk of, serious physical harm to another person or to property;

(c) Any attempt or conspiracy to commit, or complicity in committing, any offense identified in division (A)(2)(a) or (b) of this section;

(d) Any conduct reasonably indicating that any offense identified in division (A)(2)(a) or (b) of this section or any attempt, conspiracy, or complicity described in division (A)(2)(c) of this section has been, is being, or is about to be committed.

(B) Whoever violates this section is guilty of failure to disclose one's personal information, a misdemeanor of the fourth degree.

(C) Nothing in this section requires a person to answer any questions beyond that person's name, address, or date of birth. Nothing in this section authorizes a law enforcement officer to arrest a person for not providing any information beyond that person's name, address, or date of birth or for refusing to describe the offense observed.

(D) It is not a violation of this section to refuse to answer a question that would reveal a person's age or date of birth if age is an element of the crime that the person is suspected of committing.
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So, it seems to me that what they are saying is that if a LEO suspects you of having commited a crime, or of even contemplating such, or being a witness of such, that you are OBLIGATED to give your name, address and DOB, failure to disclose this is a misdemeanor. Since anybody, anywhere, at any time, can be said to be "about to commit a crime", this amounts to instant (albeit limited) interrogation rights by whatever LEO wants to demand it of a otherwise law abiding citizen. And the citizen can't even tell the LEO to buzz off and MYOB (not that I would refuse, but I demand the right to do it if I want) without getting fined (unlikely) or thrown in jail (likely).

Can we say "Show me your papers, NOW!"? :eek: :mad: :barf:
 
Are these the two in issue?:

"Sec. 2921.29. (A) No person who is in a public place shall refuse to disclose the person's name, address, or date of birth, when requested by a law enforcement officer who reasonably suspects either of the following:

(1) The person is committing, has committed, or is about to commit a criminal offense.

(2) The person witnessed any of the following:

(a) An offense of violence that would constitute a felony under the laws of this state;

(b) A felony offense that causes or results in, or creates a substantial risk of, serious physical harm to another person or to property;

(c) Any attempt or conspiracy to commit, or complicity in committing, any offense identified in division (A)(2)(a) or (b) of this section;

(d) Any conduct reasonably indicating that any offense identified in division (A)(2)(a) or (b) of this section or any attempt, conspiracy, or complicity described in division (A)(2)(c) of this section has been, is being, or is about to be committed.

(B) Whoever violates this section is guilty of failure to disclose one's personal information, a misdemeanor of the fourth degree.

(C) Nothing in this section requires a person to answer any questions beyond that person's name, address, or date of birth. Nothing in this section authorizes a law enforcement officer to arrest a person for not providing any information beyond that person's name, address, or date of birth or for refusing to describe the offense observed.

(D) It is not a violation of this section to refuse to answer a question that would reveal a person's age or date of birth if age is an element of the crime that the person is suspected of committing."

and

Sec. 2909.31. (A) No person entering an airport, train station, port, or other similar critical transportation infrastructure site shall refuse to show identification when requested by a law enforcement officer when there is a threat to security and the law enforcement officer is requiring identification of all persons entering the site.

(B) A law enforcement officer may prevent any person who refuses to show identification when asked under the circumstances described in division (A) of this section from entering the critical transportation infrastructure site.

WildcuriousAlaska
 
Sec. 2909.31. (A) No person entering an airport, train station, port, or other similar critical transportation infrastructure site shall refuse to show identification when requested by a law enforcement officer when there is a threat to security and the law enforcement officer is requiring identification of all persons entering the site.

(B) A law enforcement officer may prevent any person who refuses to show identification when asked under the circumstances described in division (A) of this section from entering the critical transportation infrastructure site.
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WA -- If I read this right, section 2909.31 above does not specify that an offense has been committed if you refuse to show ID in that case, and if you do refuse they will bar entry to the site. OTOH the other section that I referred to before does specify that a refusal to supply ID info is an arrestable offense.

Now, how they would keep the 2 seperate sounds pretty vague to me. I would guess that they would assume that if you refused to supply ID in the one case, that you were up to no good and would arrest you under the terms of the other case.
 
Now, how they would keep the 2 seperate sounds pretty vague to me. I would guess that they would assume that if you refused to supply ID in the one case, that you were up to no good and would arrest you under the terms of the other case.
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Thats a stretch....the both have different elements and one is not a criminal statutue

I dont see a constituional violation in either

WilddoesnayoneAlaska
 
...airport, train station, port, or other similar critical transportation infrastructure site...
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Each of which are public places by their very nature. Hence, they also meet the criteria of section 2921.29 and penalties would apply, as it would be reasonable to assume that a person would be about to commit a crime if they were refusing to comply with the demand for ID.
 
Why is it that every time there's an issue of a camel's nose under the tent, we get into a debate as to whether the camel is likely to take over the kitchen? The problem is already here: it's his NOSE IN THE TENT!
Rich
 
I dont see a constituional violation in either

WilddoesnayoneAlaska
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Well, don't know if it's a constitutional violation but even people being arrested have "the right to remain silent"...no?
 
Hence, they also meet the criteria of section 2921.29 and penalties would apply, as it would be reasonable to assume that a person would be about to commit a crime if they were refusing to comply with the demand for ID.
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I dont think such post hoc ergo propter logic will pass muster.

Well, don't know if it's a constitutional violation but even people being arrested have "the right to remain silent"...no?
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Yes...they can be held until identified also. Dont think the mere fact of iding oneself triggers the 5th IIRC

The problem is already here: it's his NOSE IN THE TENT!
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Thats inherent in ALL social/politcal organizations . The issue always is how far hes gonna get that nose in and what hes gonna sniff. In Stalins Russia, he was munchin on the crullers, in ours, he's enjoying the aroma

WildkrispykremeAlaska
 
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