Governor or Judge?

Long guns can be used for home protection ...if a person is properly trained ..maybe SWAT training ..or Military training .....if you have a large wide open home ...sure ..are you trained VIA Military ..or certain SWAT training then sure...but if not, a good handgun is your best bet......

....thats real world ..not a Movie or TV fantasy ...or watching 10 min training exercises on TV..
 
Poor penetration
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:confused:


000 Buck pellets fired from a 2in. barreled Judge penetrated through 5 layers of clothing through 4 milk jugs of water ...thats 5 layers of clothing 7 layers of plastic and 24 inches of water....

This test was done by " Shooting Times Magazine "

Hornady FTX 185 gr 45 colt only made it to the third jug...
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This is an interesting topic. Here's my two cents. A friend of mine had a Public Defender, the frame cracked. He sent it in. Taurus sent him a new gun. The hammer got stuck back on the NEW gun, with a full cylinder. After fighting with it he got it to fire, where he promptly unloaded it and hasn't shot it since. Before the frame on the first one cracked my wife shot it. The recoil for her was brutal. I don't know how good the penetration was but with buckshot loads it completely destroyed milk jugs.
 
I bought the Judge PD poly and like it. Good size and was under $400 so I could spend more $$ on ammo. Did not see advantage of spending $600 on the Smith. Just my $.02. I have had real good results with 000 buck so far. Accuracy and knocking bowling pins. Have no problem using as a SD gun. Also critical defense rounds work well. Happy camper with poly judge so far. Just a "arm chair commando" no real training so not an expert. :).
 
The recoil for her was brutal.
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I have a PD UL 20 oz... seemingly unusually manageable recoil ...less than a J frame shooting 38+P I think the grip design helps alot with the recoil .... I'm glad I have no issues with my Judge as of yet ..knock on wood...
 
If I had a Governor or Judge and I was going to use it for home defense I would use one of these loads:

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=269
http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=46
http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_87&products_id=346

Basically those are the hottest "standard pressure" .45 colt loads I can find.

You will notice that there is no .410 on that list. I just don't see the point to using it for self defense, unless I am defending myself from a snake.

This is the particular testing that turned me off the idea entirely:

http://theboxotruth.com/docs/bot41_2.htm

Estimated 4.5" of penetration in the BG with #000 buck? No thanks... But notice at the end their test the .45 colt gets 15" equivalent penetration. Sounds much better to me.... Of course accuracy suffers compared to a real .45 colt revolver thanks to the ridiculously long chamber and shallow rifling.


My advice? Only get the Judge or Governor if you need it for other purposes as well, like pest control, and then get the longest barrel you can find since that should get you a little more penetration:

http://www.taurususa.com/product-details.cfm?id=201&category=Revolver&toggle=&breadcrumbseries=41

If you don't need .410 for other purposes, then I would recommend just about anything else. Get something with a front picatinny rail though. If you have to use the gun at night a flashlight could be invaluable.
 
000 Buck pellets fired from a 2in. barreled Judge penetrated through 5 layers of clothing through 4 milk jugs of water ...thats 5 layers of clothing 7 layers of plastic and 24 inches of water....

This test was done by " Shooting Times Magazine "

Hornady FTX 185 gr 45 colt only made it to the third jug...
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This is a test that was recently done published in "Shooting Times Magazine"

But those loads you picked are impressive..I'd like to see a 45 Colt 200 Gr. Wadcutter at standard pressure , I think with the Standard Pressure 45 Colts HP may not be effective ..thus making a .455 wound channel....(.455 frontal area)
A staggered load in the 410/45 Colt revolver is a good idea

I saw the video "Box O Truth" the 410 loads look very unimpressive....maybe the newer ammo seems to perform much better ...at least for " Shooting Times Magazine " test and few others I read about...

but to each there own.."I know some guys that knock the 9 X 19 and still carry a J frame loaded with 110 gr. HPs ? And vice -a-versa..



Also the article I seem to mention was written by Layne Simpson " Shooting Times Magazine " he also done the tests.....so I'd say its reliable ..He also recommended 000 410 defensive loads over the 45 Colt .....his words not mine....
 
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Governor!
Why?
#2 My FFL is also a gunsmith. He mentioned that the cylinder on the Judge has a reputation to sieze up. The Governor hasn't earned that reputation yet.
#1 The Governor is Made in USA!
 
Interesting picture in some gun rag, too lazy to look for it. 410 Judge round on a target. Lead in the center and there's a hole from the wad on the side.

So, we kind of accept that with shotguns in a defense situation, you let loose an extremely powerful round and someone nearby gets whacked with the wad. It would be rude in your face/eye, esp. if you were doing a hostage shot. Which is a precision shot with OO in plain old training rather than understress.

But you are using the 12 gauge. Life or death.

A 223 or handgun round doesn't have that problem.

Oh, you will never have to do that - how about that daddy who had his family raped and burned alive in CT - might have he ended in such, if armed. Close in the house - you never know.

So why choose an inherently inaccurate handgun for such work that additional spews some other crap into the face of your loved one.

If you don't use the wonder 410 round, why not have a gun with 9 45s, or 12 40s or 17 9mm - which you can shoot much better. I'd bet you none of the Judge or Gov owners, all praise the watermelon and water jug, put in as much practice with the handgun rounds or 223s that my circle of folks do with such weapons. Or train to the same level with the Judge as the full stock shotgun.

Hopefully, the bad guy will wear a watermelon or water jug on their head to make it easier for the novice.

That being said - yeah, it's a gun. So is a NAA mini or a 380, etc. They all will work if the stars are right or for deterrence but are not optimal.
 
If the op wants to buy a gun, good for him. And the Judge in my opinion is a good gun. Mine has an 18 inch barrel, so Im not sure how well that compares to a handgun, but at 15 yards or so 000 goes through a milkjug that is full of ice. I think a lot of people consider a .410 to small and too underpowered. I think a lot of you forget that people actually hunt with .410, I know people that deer hunt with them. Yes, they have to be close, but it works. Now a handgun does have a shorter barrel, so it's not gonna be as good but its gonna be good enough. A lot of people also believe that they aren't good enough because they don't believe in the use of a shotgun for defense. I myself keep a shotgun handy for around home. I wouldnt be opposed to using a .410 handgun for home use. Especially if I believe someone is outside. But I'm more of a 12 gauge person. I do really like the Judge handguns and I believe many people give them a hard time because it's a Taurus, it's a .410, and/or they don't like shotguns. Yes, a shotgun isn't precise when using shot, but it surely gets the job done. And as far as the wad hitting an innocent person, I think that's the least of your worries. That's a dumb way to look at it, and I guess if you believe that is a reason to not use a shotgun then you gotta go call pretty much every police department in the country and tell them to scrap their shotguns. And if you are doing a hostage shot, you are stupid unless you are highly skilled and trained. I mean, you have to be an excellent marksman. And if you are doing that, I think the wad hitting the hostage is the least of your worries, but you are shooting a shotgun. You can't get precise shots like that, with a shotgun you're gonna hit your target and the hostage, the wad isn't gonna matter, the lead shot going everywhere does. Anyways, someone that can pull of that kind of shot isn't gonna be using a .410 and they won't be using some cheap gun either. Let's not confuse trained marksmen with average shooters, almost no one here can or will take that kind of shot.
 
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Great argument for not using shotguns without training and being helpless if someone holds your family member hostage.

Ok, urban defender - drop your gun so I can set your daughter on fire after I rape her.

I grant you that the wad hitting an innocent in the eye is a lesser problem than hitting the innocent with a 00, BB or other projectile in the eye.

Thus, we train.

BTW, there is a strong move away from shotguns by PDs for the urban fight. I was watching Alaska state troopers. When they went after a wayward moose, they took their 12 gauge. On a house entry, they took out ARs.
 
Well, I don't live in Alaska and pretty much every patrol car here has a 12 gauge in it.

And the shot pattern of a short barreled .410 is gonna be big especially with smaller shot. Let's say you are 20 feet away and there is an innocent next to the target, the wad hitting the innocent is the least of my concerns when there's lead going every where. This reason is about the only disadvantage of a shotgun, and they are short range weapons. Regardless, a shotgun is a good defense weapon in my opinion. They're are better guns than the Judge, but that doesn't matter. It's about whatever you are comfrortable with and what you can afford. If the op's wife is comfortable with a handheld .410, great for her.
 
I'm amazed that people would even consider a weapon type that generates such negativity from knowlegable people.
:rolleyes:
 
Glenn E. Meyer said:
BTW, there is a strong move away from shotguns by PDs for the urban fight. I was watching Alaska state troopers. When they went after a wayward moose, they took their 12 gauge. On a house entry, they took out ARs.
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I'm addicted to that show and love the weekend marathons... The judge adds so many negative variables to defense situations; why stack the deck in favor of your opponent?

I thought the goal of a fight is to give yourself all the advantages and give your opponent none.

It seems that Judge/Governor advocates really try as hard to convince themselves it's an sound choice as they do others. I just don't get it.
 
I'm amazed that people would even consider a weapon type that generates such negativity from knowlegable people.
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Theres sooooo many comments i could make on that .....but I'll let that slide....:D


Belly gun, close range ....

Layne Simpson... is just about as knowledgeable person you'll ever find on firearms.....My opinion, in this area carries alot of clout....has for years...
I'm not claiming to be a tactical genius.. or a gun fighter ...just a normal guy ...normal range time but with being a Xray Tech for 30 years and a Level 1 trauma nurse for 8 years (now behind a desk).. I know the human anatomy better than most of the general public and most gun nuts (like myself)
 
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I too am not particularly hip on the whole .410 revolver idea, but I think that's been sufficiently discussed so I won't go into my reasoning.

If you are dead set on a .45/.410 revolver, I think that the S&W Governor would probably be the better of the two because it gives you six shots rather than five (a .410 revolver isn't going to be particularly small or concealable no matter which way you slice it) but more importantly it gives you the option to use .45 ACP ammunition in addition to .45 Long Colt and .410 Shotshells. While .45 Long Colt is certainly a very capable cartridge and has some very good loadings available for it, .45 ACP has seen much more bullet development and has many more premium SD loadings available than .45 LC. Also, if you don't handload, .45 ACP practice ammunition will be more widely available and significantly less expensive than .45 LC.
 
I recommend against any Smith with a lock.

If everyone boycotts, they'll get rid of the damn things.
 
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