stubbicatt
New member
Since OP says he will be hunting only pronghorn at distance, I'd say either 243 or maybe a 6.5x55.
Good long range hunting round?
- Thread starter Deja vu
- Start date
Factory ammo I would use 270/30-06 and I do own both. 30-06 you have more choice on bullets if that be a concern.
You can get on Federal site they give you ballistic tables
https://www.federalpremium.com/products/details/rifle.aspx?id=764
You can get on Federal site they give you ballistic tables
https://www.federalpremium.com/products/details/rifle.aspx?id=764
Pathfinder45
New member
Yeah, I kinda thought, that for the purposes of this discussion, we were being asked to recommend calibers that would not only be suited to the purpose, but could also be expected to easily find ammo for at the most reasonable prices. If I got that right, then we are doing a dis-service to recommend some of the calibers that are being mentioned here. It seems to me that the only calibers that meet this criteria are 243 Winchester, 270 Winchester, 308 Winchester, and 30-'06 Springfield. While there are other calibers that will perform just as well as these; they really don't belong in this discussion since they will be but poorly represented on the shelves of most places out in the country, if at all, and when you do see them, they cost half-again more. It doesn't matter if the 6mm Remington. 25-06, 280 Remington, or what have you, is your darling cartridge. Those are not competitively priced on the shelves and are less well represented.
There is a wide selection of plain hunting ammo for 243 Winchester, 270 Winchester, 308 Winchester, and 30-'06 Springfield, and it all is priced about the same. Premium ammo is available as well, but we were talking about budget ammo. If recoil is an issue, and pronghorn is the major focus, then the 243 is the stand-out winner. Otherwise, take your pick between 270 or 30-'06. 308 Winchester would be a modestly respectable option.
It seems unreasonable to look at this much differently....
There is a wide selection of plain hunting ammo for 243 Winchester, 270 Winchester, 308 Winchester, and 30-'06 Springfield, and it all is priced about the same. Premium ammo is available as well, but we were talking about budget ammo. If recoil is an issue, and pronghorn is the major focus, then the 243 is the stand-out winner. Otherwise, take your pick between 270 or 30-'06. 308 Winchester would be a modestly respectable option.
It seems unreasonable to look at this much differently....
Pathfinder45, when was the last time you checked price and availability of .260 Remington or 6.5x55? Price per round and availability are very close. The slightly less number of loadings is due to the slightly smaller usable weights of the .243Win vs. the 6.5mms and the average .260 or 6.5x55 load is 25% heavier than the average .243Win load, with about 15% increase in cost. Certainly not a big deal and less than the .308, .30-06 and .270 hunting loads in the same brand.
I own both, like both and shoot both...those two 6.5mms offer a larger window and heavier weights than the .243 and deliver a little more energy downrange. But they are in no way is less available or poorly represented. When I go to a Bass Pro or Cabelas here in the West, about the same same for each. The 6.5x55 is even a little better than the .260, but both are widely available, economical and effective.
It seems unreasonable to kick those two 6.5ms to the curb along with some of the other calibers.
I own both, like both and shoot both...those two 6.5mms offer a larger window and heavier weights than the .243 and deliver a little more energy downrange. But they are in no way is less available or poorly represented. When I go to a Bass Pro or Cabelas here in the West, about the same same for each. The 6.5x55 is even a little better than the .260, but both are widely available, economical and effective.
It seems unreasonable to kick those two 6.5ms to the curb along with some of the other calibers.
Pathfinder45
New member
MarkCO, I hear you, but my guess is that like me, you probably reload and don't buy much factory ammo. And when you do, it's probably not at some rural feed/tack and hardware store out in the country. I do check prices around every so often, like at BiMart, Sportsman's Warehouse. Fisherman's Marine, and some small town shops for comparison. The best prices I see of some of these up-and-coming calibers that are gaining in popularity sometimes come within ten dollars more per box than basic Winchester or Federal blue-box 270. I never see it match it. Next time I go into Coastal Farm and Ranch store I will see what they have as they are definitely selling ammo. In revolvers, I'm a 45 Colt guy, but I readily will tell others that most of them will be better served with a 44 Magnum. I don't think we should automatically recommend our favorite cartridge to someone else. I do think that some of the 6.5 mm cartridges today are exhibiting some very outstanding qualities in terms of rifle cartridge development. Some are closing in on mainstream acceptance, and the situation is evolving. And, for the avid reloader, even an obscure wildcat is no impediment.
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mapsjanhere
New member
I'd suggest to go to JBM and play with the ballistics calculator. At 500 yards my favorite 308 Win Barnes TTSX at 2700 ft sec has a drop of 5 ft and a side drift of 2 ft in a 10 mph cross wind. On an animal with a vital zone of maybe 6"x6". A 243 will have less drop but more wind sensitivity, a 220gr out of a 300 RUM will only have about a ft of side drift. Then I'd adjust for my shooting ability and carry weight vs recoil sensitivity and make my decision.
Also, once you're past 300 yards any error in range estimate of more than 50 m and you'll miss over/under. In open desert with no features to go by I would definitely want to have a range finder with me.
Also, once you're past 300 yards any error in range estimate of more than 50 m and you'll miss over/under. In open desert with no features to go by I would definitely want to have a range finder with me.
Having hunted antelope out here in the West, I will say that antelope are not particularly hard to kill, any good rifle can do it if you put the bullet on target. As the range increases, this becomes more challenging, but more horsepower is not necessarily the answer. A good 7mm Rem Mag, 270 Win, 30-06, 25-06, or similar cartridge will drop them cleanly out to 600+ yds (no, I have never shot an antelope at 600 yds, but I have seen it done). The weakest link in the chain is the hunter and their ability to judge distance and wind. Assuming you know the range (laser rangefinders are good for this) and can dope the wind (wind meters can be used), it is just a matter of practice connecting with an antelope at 600 yds. Good practice is as easy as going out in the desert and shooting ground squirrels and rockchucks in the wind. When you can connect regularly with those targets, you will be able to connect with an antelope.
Pathfinder45, agreed. I like .41Mag, and tell folks to choose between .357 and .44 Mag.
The track record of the 6.5x55 in Europe and the successes here in the West with that and the .260Rem have, at least IMHO made them viable, even for the factory fodder folks. I do worry that the gains of the 6.5CM and Ruger going with that over the .260 are may water down the 6.5 calibers viability.
Yes, I do reload, and a lot of it. But, I have at least one box of factory ammo for every rifle and pistol I own...even the .338-06, .40 Super and .414 SuperMag.
Also, while the OP does not think he will shoot 600 and beyond, those shots are hard and not only require a skilled shooter with excellent technique, but an excellent hunter with excellent knowledge of the game being shot. When the TOF is 1/2 second or more, the hunter must be able to read the animal behavior and know what the presentation will be when the bullet arrives. This is probably the hardest part. Putting together excellent technique, enough energy, ballistics knowledge and animal behavior to hit the perfect spot is certainly expert level work.
The track record of the 6.5x55 in Europe and the successes here in the West with that and the .260Rem have, at least IMHO made them viable, even for the factory fodder folks. I do worry that the gains of the 6.5CM and Ruger going with that over the .260 are may water down the 6.5 calibers viability.
Yes, I do reload, and a lot of it. But, I have at least one box of factory ammo for every rifle and pistol I own...even the .338-06, .40 Super and .414 SuperMag.
Also, while the OP does not think he will shoot 600 and beyond, those shots are hard and not only require a skilled shooter with excellent technique, but an excellent hunter with excellent knowledge of the game being shot. When the TOF is 1/2 second or more, the hunter must be able to read the animal behavior and know what the presentation will be when the bullet arrives. This is probably the hardest part. Putting together excellent technique, enough energy, ballistics knowledge and animal behavior to hit the perfect spot is certainly expert level work.
Sure Shot Mc Gee
New member
Well if that's all your going to hunt is antelope/speed goats. 223 would serve the purpose very well. And too. 223 store bought ammo is far less costly to purchase than any of other calibers prior commented. The only draw back with 223 use. "Its shooter choice of scope." __Cheap scope: 100 yard decent accuracy. Rich mans expensive scope: Accuracy Un~~limited.
In my many years of hunting I have made most of my long shots with a 270 Winchester. Never had a complaint at all. I have owned a few 300 mags and hunted with them, killed game with them and liked them well enough but looking back from now to the days I was a teen I have never killed any big game with any rifle at a range over 550 expect for the 270. That is NOT to say others would not do as well, but I can tell you with 100% certainty the 270 does very well out to about 880 (my longest kill)
It's not "new" but I have not seen anything new that I consider truly better.
Some are faster. But all that are eat barrels faster too. Most eat them a LOT faster. Rebarreling rifles is costly and every time you do it you may have to do all your load work-ups again. Shooting a rifle with one load a LOT is what makes you familiar enough with it to soot well at long range.
Overall I can't say I have seen any cartridge in my life that is a better balance for ability to kill,(the very best long range bullets made for the 270 are all made for hunting, not for paper) good long range trajectory, easy shooting and good bore life than the old 270.
Looked at as a package, I am still convinced you are not going to get much better for a general purpose long range rifle. Some cartridges shoot flatter and faster, but kick harder and cost far more to practice with. Practice is the key. A good long range shooter is 95% the man and 5% what he uses.
If we look at the shooting done in the Military since about 1968 with the 308 we can see a lot of very good men in the sniper companies. The 308 is accurate, but clearly not designed just for long ranges. Yet the scores on paper and on enemies is very high. Why?
Because we have some very good men using them.
Today some of our best shooters use 300 magnums, but they do not have to buy their own ammo or replace the barrel out of their own pockets. As I said, there are many other cartridges that will do the job.
I just like the 270 better because I can use it VERY well and it kills VERY well, and it doesn't kick very hard, and it holds 5 in the magazine instead of 3. (that last one is probably a worthless feature for long range shooting, but when I am hunting I do not know if I am going to get into my game at 20 yards or 700 yards, so I like my rifle to also be light and handy.)
Anyway....that just how I see things.
your mileage may vary
It's not "new" but I have not seen anything new that I consider truly better.
Some are faster. But all that are eat barrels faster too. Most eat them a LOT faster. Rebarreling rifles is costly and every time you do it you may have to do all your load work-ups again. Shooting a rifle with one load a LOT is what makes you familiar enough with it to soot well at long range.
Overall I can't say I have seen any cartridge in my life that is a better balance for ability to kill,(the very best long range bullets made for the 270 are all made for hunting, not for paper) good long range trajectory, easy shooting and good bore life than the old 270.
Looked at as a package, I am still convinced you are not going to get much better for a general purpose long range rifle. Some cartridges shoot flatter and faster, but kick harder and cost far more to practice with. Practice is the key. A good long range shooter is 95% the man and 5% what he uses.
If we look at the shooting done in the Military since about 1968 with the 308 we can see a lot of very good men in the sniper companies. The 308 is accurate, but clearly not designed just for long ranges. Yet the scores on paper and on enemies is very high. Why?
Because we have some very good men using them.
Today some of our best shooters use 300 magnums, but they do not have to buy their own ammo or replace the barrel out of their own pockets. As I said, there are many other cartridges that will do the job.
I just like the 270 better because I can use it VERY well and it kills VERY well, and it doesn't kick very hard, and it holds 5 in the magazine instead of 3. (that last one is probably a worthless feature for long range shooting, but when I am hunting I do not know if I am going to get into my game at 20 yards or 700 yards, so I like my rifle to also be light and handy.)
Anyway....that just how I see things.
your mileage may vary
If your're talking about long range antelope hunting and not wanting some high dollar ammo, the .260 would be a great option. Light recoil, short action, with certain bullet weights it can duplicate the trajectory of a .300 Win. mag, also it has very very dense bullets that are have a much higher density than .30 cal bullets which will improve your penetration. But there are many many good cartridges for this task. .270, 7mm, .300 mag., .30-06, .243 to about 400 yards, 6.5 Creedmore, .308, etc., but the .308 would be my last choice on that list probably. Also a .25-06 would be an excellent choice. If not better than a .260. But a .25-06 and .260 would be my top two choices and recommendations.
Pathfinder45
New member
But a box of 25-06 or 260 Remington costs more to purchase than a box of 270 ammo............. Deja vu said that cost of ammo is an issue. The 270 will do everything the other two will do, and more besides, and at a lower cost. Can we not step out of our own shoes for a moment and be somebody else? Of course not; how much sympathy does anyone with 26 guns deserve, anyway?
Heck, I'm still in the single digit category and always have been. If it weren't for reloading, the cost of ammo would severely affect me. So if someone says that the cost of ammo matters, I can relate to that. I would try to steer them away from exotic calibers that essentially reinvent the wheel at a higher price tag.
Heck, I'm still in the single digit category and always have been. If it weren't for reloading, the cost of ammo would severely affect me. So if someone says that the cost of ammo matters, I can relate to that. I would try to steer them away from exotic calibers that essentially reinvent the wheel at a higher price tag..260 is plentiful around this neck of the woods. It costs around the same as .30-06 ammo does around here either. And I have less than 15 guns. You can get on ammoseek.com right now and get hunting ammo from brands like Remington and Hornady for under $16 a a box for .25-06.
Also I stated in my post specifically in the first sentence stated that "and not wanting high dollar ammo". Also I listed a .270 in my post as a good caliber for the job. And I did step out of "my shoes" for that post because I do not, or ever have owned a .260 or .25-06.
And I don't reload, never have, and it will be a long long time if I ever do start it. So ammo cost is a huge is a huge deal to me also since I don't reload.
Also I stated in my post specifically in the first sentence stated that "and not wanting high dollar ammo". Also I listed a .270 in my post as a good caliber for the job. And I did step out of "my shoes" for that post because I do not, or ever have owned a .260 or .25-06.
And I don't reload, never have, and it will be a long long time if I ever do start it. So ammo cost is a huge is a huge deal to me also since I don't reload.
I like the .270 winchester and 3006 as well, but research the 6.5 Creedmoor, you can find one that's light enough, so trotting around the prairies and hills wouldn't be terrible.
Of course handloading would serve you well with that cartridge, as you can get the other three cartridges almost anywhere they sell hunting licenses.
I have a 6.5-06 built on a Turkish Mauser action and it's cool but No commercial ammo available for it in the field, so you would need handloading availability.
Of course handloading would serve you well with that cartridge, as you can get the other three cartridges almost anywhere they sell hunting licenses.
I have a 6.5-06 built on a Turkish Mauser action and it's cool but No commercial ammo available for it in the field, so you would need handloading availability.
Don't under estimate the 270 Win. I load Hornady 150 gr IBs to 2750 fps, and it remains super sonic to 1700 yards.
Berger makes excellent hunting bullets. The 150 VLD Hunting bullet is excellent in the 270 Win.
I talk to Berger engineers who says for the Berger bullet to work as intended it needs to have a remaining velocity of 1800 FPS at the target.
That's a hair over 800 yards with my loading.
The 270 Win. also doesn't beat you to death shooting it. Works great on elk, a bit of over kill on antelope in my opinion, but they make 130 gr. bullets also.
Berger makes excellent hunting bullets. The 150 VLD Hunting bullet is excellent in the 270 Win.
I talk to Berger engineers who says for the Berger bullet to work as intended it needs to have a remaining velocity of 1800 FPS at the target.
That's a hair over 800 yards with my loading.
The 270 Win. also doesn't beat you to death shooting it. Works great on elk, a bit of over kill on antelope in my opinion, but they make 130 gr. bullets also.
As the OP is apparently mainly hunting antelope with whatever he decides on and only an occasional run at elk, I'd go with the .270 first, then the 30-06.
Probably a load with the 130 gr. bullet would be his best best for speed goats but I'd go with a 150 gr., preferably with an Accubond or Partition for elk.
Personally, I hand load and only use 150 Sierra Game Kings for antelope and the Nosler portion for elk and I'm fortunate that the Sierra and Nosler load shoot to the same point of impact out past 300 yards. Most of my game, from from deer to elk have been shot at 200 yards or less. My one antelope was at 75 yards and one elk at 530 yards. I used a .300 Win. Mag. on that one. One deer at 426 paces back in the mid 70's with a .308 and one elk at 350 yards with a .35 Whelen. Eveything else was at 250 or less, mostly less.
So my suggestion is the .270 number one or a close second with the 30-06. I know I've snubbed the .308 lovers but I'm thinking easiest ammo for a non-reloader to find. I have seen a couple of places that didn't have .308s on the shelf.
No snub meant to any cartridge. I shoot stuff from .22 Hornet to the mighty .416 Rigby and a whole lot in between. I just think the 06 or .270 would be the way to go for the OP. JMHO.
Paul B.
Probably a load with the 130 gr. bullet would be his best best for speed goats but I'd go with a 150 gr., preferably with an Accubond or Partition for elk.
Personally, I hand load and only use 150 Sierra Game Kings for antelope and the Nosler portion for elk and I'm fortunate that the Sierra and Nosler load shoot to the same point of impact out past 300 yards. Most of my game, from from deer to elk have been shot at 200 yards or less. My one antelope was at 75 yards and one elk at 530 yards. I used a .300 Win. Mag. on that one. One deer at 426 paces back in the mid 70's with a .308 and one elk at 350 yards with a .35 Whelen. Eveything else was at 250 or less, mostly less.
So my suggestion is the .270 number one or a close second with the 30-06. I know I've snubbed the .308 lovers but I'm thinking easiest ammo for a non-reloader to find. I have seen a couple of places that didn't have .308s on the shelf.
No snub meant to any cartridge. I shoot stuff from .22 Hornet to the mighty .416 Rigby and a whole lot in between. I just think the 06 or .270 would be the way to go for the OP. JMHO.
Paul B.