GLOCKS - are they THAT good ?

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Kodiac, :) (i mentioned argumentation and advocacy)

There is nothing you can do with a .40 short and weak (Jeff Cooper's term) that can not be done better with the DA 10!

The only reasons that the .40 exists is that it fits in the same package as the 9mm and the FBI discovered after specing real ammo that Fed lite was what they really needed.
Given that an average size male (I just about perfectly match the average soldier's spec except I am older and heavier now) can, using the high grip fire the 20/21 29/30 pistols with full control, and high capacity magazines capacity are 17 rounds (15 with plus 2) plus one (in the chamber), there is absolutely NO reason I would prefer a less flexible cartridge.

Had you mentioned 9X25 you might have interested me. BTW, I do not believe the .224 BOZ is a 40 S&W length cartridge, if it is it could only be improved by lengthening it to 10mm length!

And as far as the apparent parity between 10mm and .40 factory loads? I assure you, one and all, that if I load 10mm to the pressures some are pushing with .40 the velocities will be about 200 fps higher in the same barrel length.

No, there is no question in my mind, da 10 be da ONE! ;)

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Ni ellegimit carborundum esse! :D

Yours In Marksmanship
http://www.1bigred.com/distinguished

michael



[This message has been edited by Michael Carlin (edited 01-13-99).]
 
HK loads the 10MM into its MP5, and if your crafty, can turn it into a "Pistol"
same as the MP5 chambered in .224BOZ.
Dont tell me it cant be done - its just a matter of how much money you want to spend.
People said you cant put a ford 5.0 V8 into a Mazda Miata - but you can... :)

We will agree to disagree about the .40. I like 10MM "full house" loads too. But I dont see packing those monsters in a carry gun "On Duty" which is my only perspective. I like .44 Magnum too - but would leave it home when I go out on the town.
10mm gives you a good spectrum of performance, I agree. But the .40 can play right in the middle of the 10's range. So for me thats enough.
I was really tempted to keep a 10MM delta elite that came my way up in Idaho many years ago - Had I kept it, I am sure I would have a different opinion about it.
But minus the 10MM in HK's pistol line up - with the calibers given - HK is a great. Never seen SEALs, SF, Rangers or the like packing a Glock... But I have seen Sigs and HKs carried. (1911s too, but lets no go there.)

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Kodiac
Kenetic Defense Institute
"Sir Heckler"
 
I'm an H&K fan, too, and I'm not at all interested in the 10mm. If I want that kind of power, I'll get an HK USP45, do some .45 Super - and still have .45ACP for "light" work.
 
My first handgun was a Glock 17...it is usually loaned to my parents but I shot it yesterday. I'd say it is NOT my favorite handgun, by far, for range use. However, it is simple to use and maintain and it WORKS flawlessly...for combat, I'd rely on it before a more complex weapon.
 
Kodiak, a little off post here(?), but just for the sake of accuracy, SEALs do, on occasion, carry Glocks. I've seen the east coast and west coasters with 'em.

FWIW, to start a real firefight on the internet, many folks I run into, in the SPEC-OPs community and others involved in high risk warrants and such, if given a preference($), gravitate toward Glock or H&K, more so than the others. (and for good reason) Obviously, I haven't worked with everyone in those circles, but there certainly appears to be a trend.

I still don't believe 10mm has been given a fair shake yet. It's versatility has been overlooked by many, as far as I'm concerned.
You can actually hunt with a 10mm, and with high caps and a plus 2 you can have 17+1 of cartidges that approach the .44 mag power range, and go all the way up to a 210 grain bullet, if you like. Yes, you can supercharge the .40 until you get a kaboom, but why not just shoot a hot, street proven 9mm instead?
I am just waiting to hear about the new caliber of the week. Will it be the .358,the .359, .340??

My experiments with .45 Super has been very, very encouraging, but I don't want to be the first person to use it on the street.

The best advice is to get a good pistol, and learn how to use it!
Get a Glock, H&K or, yes, even a SIG, and spend time and money on training.

Good Advice
 
GLOCK perfection? HA! Who ever came up with that one was really thinking! I have owned 2 GLOCK (17, 20) and they were the most miserable pistols that i have ever shot. They were inaccurate, cheaply made, flexy, and were just plain cheap. Now i own a HK USP 45. This is a REAL plastic weapon. With my GLOCK's i put 50 rounds through them and they both jammed. Ive fired 243 rounds through my USP including 50 today, with no jams at all.I was even shooting a 16 inch group at 300 yards with it. With my GLOCK i was lucky to fire a 2 foot group at 7 yards. So do yourselves a favor, by a HK, they are cheaper than GLOCK's and reliable.
 
Mister Murphy, I don't know what you are smoking that is effecting your judgement, but please don't do it if you ever plan on shooting a real gun.

If I was going to be in a gun fight that was impossible to avoid, and knowing that any malfunction would surely cost me my life, I would need to find the most relialble gun on the planet. Well, I already own it........My Glock 19.
 
I once bought a glock model 22 back when the polymer craze started...
I owned it for about 2 months...
I could not stand the trigger, or the feel of the gun...

Like all major handgun manufacturers each has its qualities and pitfalls...

Glocks qualities are...
Though not perfect they are generally very reliable, durable, and can be found for much less than SIGs or HKs.

I paid $325 for mine NEW!!!

I do not like glocks because they are not a good gun for ME!!!

I have guns that do work for me, my all time FAV is my CUSTOM 1911 (ALL STEEL in .45 AUTO!!!) followed by the BEST OUT OF THE BOX SIG SAUERs...

But thats just me...

Thankfully the AMERICAN handgun market has tons of choices for us all...
And finding something that works for the individual is possible when done right...

P.S. I generally do not like any polymers GLOCKs, HK USPs, SIG PRO, ETC; ETC; not that they are not durable... or accurate... or reliable...
I just don't like for a gun to significantly change weight as I empty the MAG...
I LIKE MY GUNs to be "ROBUST" & to have a solid feel to them... in addition to being durable... reliable... accurate...
But again, thats just me...


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SURE SHOT
 
James - What the heck are you talking about?
Just because a pistol is made with a poly frame it cant be accurate?

PLEASE!

Have you really - honestly - fired a USP?
I bet you cant stand synthetic stocks on rifles. Has to be Walnut eh?

The USP is very accurate - I will shoot my plastic USP against your steel hogleg ANY DAY.

Please dont take this as confrontational - I dont mean to sound that way. I respect other opinions - but you sounded like you dont really know all the facts regarding some of the advantages in a poly framed gun.
Please go to the following URL and read about the tests and such - Not durable? I wont even start there! http://www.streetpro.com/usp/
If you have any questions - or would like to try a USP out - and are in the Salt Lake area... Send me an email - we will go do some shooting. You can use my gun.

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"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud
RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE
 
To: GHB

Your emotions have gotten the best of ya GEORGE...

If you read my post more carefully you'll clearly see that I wrote "NOT THAT POLYMERS AREN'T (as in ARE NOT inaccurate) ARE NOT unreliable, ETC;ETC; I STATED THAT THEY WERE ALL THESE THINGS. (just as ACCURATE, just as RELIABLE, ETC; ETC; I just do not think they are a good gun for ME. They obviously are for you, and thats great!!! But again, THIS TIME FOR YOU GEORGE...

It is great that we have so many Manufactures to choose from to select the products that are right for us as individuals...

Whether it be GLOCK, SIG, HK, or BRAND X...



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SURE SHOT
 
TO: GEORGE

P.S. I would love to go shooting with you...
But unfortunely my UNCLE SAM has me serving my country in GUANTANAMO BAY, CUBA were "I eat breakfast 1000yds away from a bunch of CUBANs who are trained to KILL ME."
When my obligations to my country are fullfilled and if I ever make it to your neck of the woods I would be HAPPY to go a shootin with YA...
Till then I will be down in CUBA, protecting you and the rest of AMERICA, insuring the FREEDOMs and PRIVLEDGES you rightfully, as AMERICANS deserve. (Without the comforts of my FAMILY I may add. A privledge that most AMERICANS take advantage of...)

And I have shot HK USP .40SW...
Its not for me...

No data, fact or fiction, will change that...

HAPPY SHOOTING TO ALL...

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SURE SHOT
 
The M16A2 SERVICE RIFLE does have a synthetic stock/foregrip...
And it is used by every branch of the armed forces...



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SURE SHOT
 
Well,
I finally bit on the Glock. I was in a local dealer's shop signing paperwork and while waiting for him to ring up the sale looked down in the case and there it was. Some lady had an old model 17 with 3 hi cap mags for sale on consignment for a heckuva great price. I asked to check it out and the dealer stripped it down...zero wear...original lubrication. Sent it back to the factory for an adjustable rear sight and the firing pin safety upgrades (sight $15, safety free) and had it back in a week. I stripped it down and relubed with molyslide and took that sucker to the range to give it a try and test all the mags. 25 yards, 200 rounds, zero malfunctions, x and 10 ring shooting. I was impressed. Never thought I would own one of the ugly things but it is now my favorite centerfire plinker. Remember the song "Get an Ugly Woman to Marry You"? Buy an ugly gun, and you can be happy for the rest of your life, too. Better than an ugly woman IMO. :)
 
Sorry James - its late - I ran out of caffeine - and another guy really TICKED me slam off and I was a little edgy there...

The offer to go shooting some time still stands if you ever get up this way! :)

Hey - maybe you could get me a Cuban AK!...
Kidding... Stay Safe!

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"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud
RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE


[This message has been edited by George Hill (edited October 22, 1999).]
 
No matter what pistol you buy , it isn't perfect. I just picked up a brand new Glock Model 22 and it is a real shooter. Zero malfunctions with 3 different brands of ammo. My 9mm is a S&W and I love that gun as well, after its initial break in that S&W can shoot with the high dollar pistols, as a matter of fact it has and did quite well. No matter what brand you buy there will always be a few lemons out there. Stick with S&W, Ruger, Glock, H&K and so forth you can't go wrong.
 
I've never had a GLOCK so I can't add to what's been said. I haven't ever been inclined to buy one because of the grip angle. Every time I pick one up and try to aim naturally they always point high. The more I read about them the more tempted I am to try one though. One thing that irks me is how everyone talks about how much more expensive the H&K's are compared to the GLOCKS. I paid $499 for my H&K USP40 full size (NIB). Could've got a GLOCK for $459. With a $40 difference between the two price wasn't even a consideration. Shake

[This message has been edited by Shake (edited October 22, 1999).]
 
So when if every is Glock going to come out with its Carbine?
I remember hearing rummors about it going around some time ago - 1 Year?

Anything new in that area? I think Glock could probably make an outstanding Carbine. At least better than the civilian version of the HK UMP.

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"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud
RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE
 
Wow, you guys really like junk! GLOCK=Junk!
HK=QUALITY,RELIABILITY,AND ACCURACY! I think that that cheap GLOCK plastic has been getting to your heads. And i could depend on my HK USP more than a GLOCK, even one by a trained pro.
 
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